LutherMax Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I've got a 1500 point game coming up against Nurgle Chaos Daemons. It's part of a mini tournament between a few local gaming friends and we're playing the 'Forge the Narrative' mission pack. This particular mission is no. 3, the relic type one. We all came up with our lists beforehand so they're fixed. I'm just after some tactical advice really so I can do my best to make Sanguinius proud! BLOOD ANGELS HQ Chaplain Bolt pistol, crozius Sanguinary Priest Relic power sword, relic plasma pistol, jump pack ELITES 10x Death Company 2x power axe, 1x power fist 6x Sanguinary Guard 2x Infernus pistol, 3x glaive encarmine, 1x power axe, 1x power fist, chapter banner TROOPS 5x scouts Sergeant, 4x sniper rifles, 1x missile launcher, camo cloaks 10x tactical marines Heavy flamer, meltagun, rhino FAST ATTACK 6x assault marines 2x melta guns, combi-melta, drop pod HEAVY SUPPORT Predator Autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons Stormraven TL lascannon, TL multimelta, 4x stormstrike missiles NURGLE HQs Great Unclean One Level 3 Psyker 2xGreater Rewards Great Unclean One Level 3 Psyker 2xGreater Rewards Troops 10 Plague Bearers 10 Plague Bearers 10 Pink Horrors Heavy Support Nurgle Daemon Prince Level 3 Psyker Flight Warp Forged Armour 2xGreater Rewards Nurgle Daemon Prince Level 3 Psyker Flight Warp Forged Armour 2xGreater Rewards I imagine he'll be doing some summoning which could give him an advantage capturing the relic. Also the GUOs and Demon Princes are nasty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakkamasta Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 My close friend that I've been playing with for 3 years only plays Nurgle CSM/daemons so I can safely say I have expertise on slaying the diseased scum. Since you can't change your list i won't bother mentioning better alternatives to fighting Nurgle. Anyways on to some tactics. I'm going to assume your DC are riding in the stormraven, the chaplain will really help there, because there's a good chance you'll never get your bonus attacks for Rage, given every unit has defensive grenades, so keep that in mind because you'll be unpleasantly surprised when your super unit of DC can barely scratch a GUO. Being in the raven works out quite well here, since his list has practically no anti-air, so your DC can come out at full strength when you want to support your other ground forces, deploying these guys at the right time i think could decide the game. Also never underestimate the chappy's power maul, str 7 on the charge and concussive can really hurt a GUO with only a 5++, and against a DP you only need to do that one wound and it's as good as dead on the next turn given its initiative will drop to 1. Nurgle is slow, very very slow. Exploit it. Mobility is our 'thing', especially in a relic type mission you can easily get to it before he does, secure it with a unit and then support it with your others. Exploit the range of your guns, unless he rolls the 3+ armour save on the greater gifts for his GUOs, your snipers and predator can do some decent damage to them. Shoot down those pink horrors ASAP, theyre easy to kill and you want to deny him warp charges, as for the plaguebearers i wouldn't even be worried. 2, 10 man units with no upgrades whatsoever arn't very scary and can be whittled down with small arms fire quite easily. The biggest problem here are the Daemon Princes, which unfortunately, you have no real answer to. The stormraven can hurt them, but other than that you've only got the DC, the SG could possibly take one on, but they'll get butchered before they do it. Maybe just hope they land and deal with them, 2+ jink saves are the worst though. Also take in to account that with lots of summoning, he's bound to get some perils, so hopefully he'll do some damage to himself at some point in the game. If he succesfully summons, deal with them immediately, as he'll probably summon something other than nurgle daemons that can move faster so you want to deny him grabbing that relic. Anyways thats my 2 cents on fighting Nurgle, which ive done a whole lot of haha. Hope you have fun a good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Thanks dakkamasta - that's a great help! You are correct, DC and Chaplain ride in the Raven, Priest deep strikes with Sang Guard. Re defensive grenades, I have come across this annoyance before... Is it just the Rage attack they lose out on or also attack for charging and for 2x CC weapons? Basically is any unit charging into defensive grenades reduced to their base stat like attacks? So Stormraven / DC / Sang Guard for GUOs / Demon Princes (but it will still be tough) - what about the melta assault unit - could they do any damage to his monstrous creatures? Defensive grenades don't work for units already locked in combat so if I could tie something up and THEN charge with DC I'd get the bonuses back..? I'm thinking I'll combat squad the tactical marines and send one after the relic in the rhino and use the other to cover as best I can with bolters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 As I remember it, defensive grenades mean you lose out on bonus attacks from charging. So that's the Rage bonus, but not any extra attacks you're getting from elsewhere. I can't find my rulebook right now to check, though. Damn thing's gone walkabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastellanDeMolay Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Only charge bonuses are negated by Defensive Grenades. So you wouldn't get either +1 Attack for charging, or +2 Attacks for charging with Rage. You would still get bonus Attacks from Banners/Standards, 2xCCW, etc. Defensive Grenades have no effect if the charged unit is already locked in an Assault, or if it has Gone to Ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 That neuters assault focused units pretty badly... I guess the thing to do is charge with some basic unit to lock them, then charge with the assault power unit afterwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Reading the rules it's even worse: Defensive Grenades Models charging a unit that contains any models equipped with Defensive Grenades do not gain bonus Attacks from charging (pg 49). Number of Attacks (pg 49) Each model makes a number of attacks as indicated on its characteristics profile, plus the following bonus attacks: +1 Charge Bonus +1 Two Weapons Other Bonuses Models may have other special rules and wargear that confer extra attacks. That's pretty clear and explicit - so no one can attack Nurgle with ANY extra attacks at all, unless they're locked in combat from a previous turn. So you basically need a unit that's tough enough (and therefore probably expensive) just to suicidally throw at a GUO or Demon Prince in the hope they'll survive a turn of combat so you can get a second expensive unit in the next turn with the extra attacks you paid for. That SUCKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himlur Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Death company and a chaplain just played a game against nurgle plague bearers. Chaplains zealot allowed enough re rolls so I was able to wipe his sqaud off 14 on the charge. I charged with 13 + chap and had 7 wounds left. Yes it was way over kill. But they can't win again death company and a chap. Also I charged and killed a great unclean one with same sqaud I belive they lost 3 bodies before I got to him and before I hit. Took two turns but won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Death company and a chaplain just played a game against nurgle plague bearers. Chaplains zealot allowed enough re rolls so I was able to wipe his sqaud off 14 on the charge. I charged with 13 + chap and had 7 wounds left. Yes it was way over kill. But they can't win again death company and a chap. Also I charged and killed a great unclean one with same sqaud I belive they lost 3 bodies before I got to him and before I hit. Took two turns but won. That's comforting to hear, however I'd expect that against plague bearers it's more the GUO x2 and Daemon Prince x2 I'm worried about. The scenario you've posted above, was that without all your extra attacks thanks to his defensive grenades? So your DC / Chap had two attacks each? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Reading the rules it's even worse: Defensive Grenades Models charging a unit that contains any models equipped with Defensive Grenades do not gain bonus Attacks from charging (pg 49). Number of Attacks (pg 49) Each model makes a number of attacks as indicated on its characteristics profile, plus the following bonus attacks: +1 Charge Bonus +1 Two Weapons Other Bonuses Models may have other special rules and wargear that confer extra attacks. That's pretty clear and explicit - so no one can attack Nurgle with ANY extra attacks at all, unless they're locked in combat from a previous turn. So you basically need a unit that's tough enough (and therefore probably expensive) just to suicidally throw at a GUO or Demon Prince in the hope they'll survive a turn of combat so you can get a second expensive unit in the next turn with the extra attacks you paid for. That SUCKS! defensive grenades states you lose the bonus attacks from charging, the attack for two cc weapons is relevent in every turn and not only when charging. Its clear to me you only lose the two rage attacks and not the +1 for two weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Phew, thank you Cronhour, I think you're right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Also, it doesn't say anything about turns or phases there. I would expect that you can eat defensive grenades with a token unit the same way you would eat overwatch: Charge with weak unit, same phase charge with stronger unit. Weak unit loses bonus attacks, strong unit doesn't. Edit: no, you were right. You just didn't actually quote the full rule in your post. So extra attacks only for charges into units locked in combat from the previous turn. Worth remembering, too, that you still get your bonus Strength and Initiative, assuming BSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Yeah, unfortunately the first unit to charge doesn't soak up the grenades, I think the idea is that charges all take place at the same time in a turn, hence declaring them all before combat begins. Think I will take BSF but unfortunately Daemon Prince is I8 so will always hit first. Both his GUOs and DPs also have Baleswords - AP2 Instant Death :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Might be a good idea to have some Storm Shield Vanguard Veterans? The 3++ can be pretty durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Can't change my list for this particular game, we all wrote our lists beforehand and now they're set in stone for the tournie.. With WS6 S6 I8 A5, AP2, Smash, Poisoned, Instant Death is it even worth me attempting combat with these Daemon Princes with my DC/SG?! I'm worried I'll lose most of the unit before I even get to swing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 The best you could do is try to avoid them and wipe out anything else that you can. And go for objectives. If you are using obsec troops you have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 There's another tricky decision - Baal Strike Force gives me +1 initiative on the charge, crucially meaning I strike before his GUOs, but no Ob Sec! Edit: actually ob sec is irrelevant in this mission. Primary objective is the relic - which can be picked up by heavy support including vehicles, but you can't move more than 6" per turn with it. Would be cool to pick it up with the Stormraven but then very important to not get charged by a Prince! Secondary objective is for number of units in each table quarter - I will have more to start with but summoning could work well for him here. Tertiary objective is for killing psykers of which he has loads and I have none. As I have none though he gets points for killing ICs, but I only have two of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm wondering what the best use of my melta assault marines in pod is. Im thinking either drop them within 12" of a GUO or Demon Prince... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Well, after all that worry I actually won. Boom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucumon Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Battle Report with pics or it didnt happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Battle Report with pics or it didnt happen. Bat rep with pics will be coming soon ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Nothing is too powerful for the sons of Sanguinious! ...Unless it's 18 wraiths with decursion detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfeld Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I can't wait for the battle report :D Well done brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 It was a great game - I was almost tabled by turn 3, then I got lucky (or rather he got unlucky) with Perils and lost a Daemon Prince. Then the Sang Guard took out a GUO and the Death Company came in to save the day (having failed the reserve roll turn 2), shepherded by their Chaplain who was the last man standing of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 As promised, herewith the report: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306503-ba-v-nurgle-1500-points-%E2%80%93-full-report-with-pics-ba-win/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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