Best assassin for grey knights.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Weaksauce?

Appearing right next to an enemy unit with an ap2 templates weapon. Can only be hit by snapshots when she arrives. Ap2 in close combat.

 

How is she a dud? 

 

It only wounds on Leadership. So, at best, you usually wound on a 4+, sometimes only a 5 or 6. 

 

The problem for her is every turn after when she arrives, she's back to being a T4 2-wound model on foot. Eversor shares the same problem, but he has longer charge range and on average does a lot more damage in melee. 

Evescor would charge 10 marines and kill 3 tops. He doesn't impress or scare me at all. 

 

You've clearly never used an Eversor then. 

[Ishagu]

An Eversor doesn't have an ap on his weapon, he would AT MOST cause around 10 wounds, and I'd save 6/7 of them with an average roll.

 

The Callidus assassin's template weapon wounds everything on a 4. You could really screw up a squad of bikers for example. Ignore cover, AP2 is rare. Not to mention you still have an ap2 sword at initiative 8 and what not that IGNORES INVUL saves on a roll of 6. she'll perform just as well against PA equivalent even with less attacks.

 

Have you all downloaded the Assassins dataslate from Black Library? No doubt the Eversor would wreck a squad of Fire Warriors/Ork Boys and what not if he got into combat, but it's hard to get him there (also a Whirlwind can cause the same damage for less than half the points against such a unit). A callidus can appear from the opponent's table edge, toast a strong unit and she demands an immediate response - likely distracting your opponent.

[Gentlemanloser]

Where as the Culexes does the same as the Callidus, but lives past turn 2.

 

As the Cally comes in, roasts a Squad, then gets obliterated turn 2 by your opponent.

[Ishagu]

Celexus is dangerous to be fielded by gk, you have to keep out of a 12" bubble surrounding him.

 

Not worth it unless you knew you were facing a tough psychic focused unit. Also callidus doesn't suck in cc...

 

You could also place her in a ruin, out of sight, in enemy territory and harass your opponent later in the game. Not everything had to be attacking from the start.

[Gentlemanloser]

No, not really.

 

You field the Culexes anywhere you need to.  And if you're within 12" of him, that unit can't Hammerhand or activate Force.

 

/crymeariver

 

The Culexes is leagues more durable than the Cally, and if you decide to, a GK player can pump an obscene amount of Warp Charges his way.

 

His gun is good. ;)

[Ishagu]

His gun is great, but he interferes with my Dreadknights, Libby and Draigo.

[Gentlemanloser]

Then don't shunt them / gate them within 12" of him?

 

It's not like you can't choose;

 

1: Where to Infiltrate the Culexes anywhere you want him

2: Choose where to end your Shunt / Gate moves

 

Sure, you need a little leeway for Scatter with Gate (and Oh Hai! Badly written rules.  What happens if Gate scatters into a Culexes bubble?  Does the Emperor revive?), but you can easily run these without interfering with each other.

 

Unless you play on 12" wide boards or something.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

An Eversor doesn't have an ap on his weapon, he would AT MOST cause around 10 wounds, and I'd save 6/7 of them with an average roll.

 

Wut. He has a power sword for killing Marines. Read his actual rules. 

The Callidus assassin's template weapon wounds everything on a 4. You could really screw up a squad of bikers for example. Ignore cover, AP2 is rare. Not to mention you still have an ap2 sword at initiative 8 and what not that IGNORES INVUL saves on a roll of 6. she'll perform just as well against PA equivalent even with less attacks.

 

You'll generally only get 1 shot, and wounding on a 4+ is not great. Ignoring invul on 6's doesn't matter when you're only S4. She's better against Terminators, but not by much. 

Where as the Culexes does the same as the Callidus, but lives past turn 2.

 

As the Cally comes in, roasts a Squad, then gets obliterated turn 2 by your opponent.

 

Exactly

Celexus is dangerous to be fielded by gk, you have to keep out of a 12" bubble surrounding him.

 

Not worth it unless you knew you were facing a tough psychic focused unit. Also callidus doesn't suck in cc...

 

You could also place her in a ruin, out of sight, in enemy territory and harass your opponent later in the game. Not everything had to be attacking from the start. 

 

So stay away from him? Attack a different flank. This is like basic tactics, how do you not understand how to split your forces?

 

He's worth it even against non-psychic armies. Instant Death on 6's means he can threaten MC's and multi-wound infantry, and he'll tarpit them very effectively. 

 

Great, waste her alpha strike and just feed her to an enemy gunline later on.

 

I'm not sure you actually know how to use Assassins. 

[Gentlemanloser]

I do so like the problems with his Bubble though.

 

Come on GW, hire someone who can actually write rules.

 

What happens to Gate entering the bubble?

 

What happens to Movement based powers that move through the Bubble?

 

Do they activate at all?  Stop when they first hit the Bubble?  Put the unit into Deep Strike Mishaps?  Kill everyone?  Birth a new Warp God?

 

Guys at GW.  As long as you pay me cash in hand, and don't mind that I can only look at your rules when I'm on leave from my actual job, I'll do this for you.

 

I can *promise* your rules would be a hell of a lot more robust, future proof and understandable.

 

And I'm quite cheap too.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

"Any Blessing or Malediction powers affecting a unit immediately cease to be in effect if a unit moves within 12" of a Culexus Assassin or vice versa"

pg. 103, Officio Assasinorum

 

I think it's pretty clear. If you 'Gate' and end up within 12" of the Assassin, you immediately stop. 

 

'Woah there Mr Draigo, says here on my warpdometer that you were doing 6 billion kph in a 5 billion kph warp current'

'Oh hey there Officer Culexus...I didn't see the signs'

'I'm gonna have to write you a brain-melt'

'Please Officer, I have children. My Centurions need their daddy'

'Sorry sir, the law is the law'

 

And then he goes back to the station, and gets bawled out by the Culexus Master for being overzealous as a warp traffic cop

[Gentlemanloser]

Gate isn't a 'move' though.  You take off board and replace.

 

If it ceases to be, does that happen before you take them off board?  Does it happen *while* they are off board?  Does that count as a mishap?  Does the unit just die instead?

 

What happens if you use the Bangel movement one, move an entire squad 12", then the last member to move clips the Bubble?  He stops?  The entire Unit can't move and you move them back?

 

It's a cluster :cuss of rules ignorance.

[Happy-inquisitor]

I do so like the problems with his Bubble though.

 

Come on GW, hire someone who can actually write rules.

 

What happens to Gate entering the bubble?

 

What happens to Movement based powers that move through the Bubble?

 

Do they activate at all?  Stop when they first hit the Bubble?  Put the unit into Deep Strike Mishaps?  Kill everyone?  Birth a new Warp God?

 

Guys at GW.  As long as you pay me cash in hand, and don't mind that I can only look at your rules when I'm on leave from my actual job, I'll do this for you.

 

I can *promise* your rules would be a hell of a lot more robust, future proof and understandable.

 

And I'm quite cheap too.

 

This one is fun!

 

So my personal take is that you cannot aim inside the 12" with your deep-strike because that is part of what the blessing does and you cannot target a blessing inside the 12" without it auto-failing. If you really insist on trying this I would place the first model, measure the 12" and declare the deep strike an auto-failure as the blessing ceases before you even roll the scatter dice - go straight to the mishap table. Similarly as soon as you scatter a model into the bubble the power ends, as you are still in the process of performing the deep strike and need the power to bring models out of limbo it is straight to the mishap table you go. You could try to construct more specific rules to the situation but I think mishap covers it well enough. My reasoning is that only the blessing gives you permission to place these models anywhere and it ceases any time any of them are within the bubble so treat that bubble similarly to landing in impassable terrain.

 

Anything that warp-powers you through the bubble stops the instant any affected model gets within 12". If you play dumb games so the last model of the unit moving is the one that gets affected and this leaves them out of coherence then you just made an illegal move - everything else has to be moved back to maintain coherence.

[Happy-inquisitor]

No, not really.

You field the Culexes anywhere you need to. And if you're within 12" of him, that unit can't Hammerhand or activate Force.

/crymeariver

The Culexes is leagues more durable than the Cally, and if you decide to, a GK player can pump an obscene amount of Warp Charges his way.

His gun is good.

Powering his awesome gun is often the best use of your warp charge - especially against opponents with 2+ saves. If you are careful with your positioning you can then use his run move to get back out of 12" range of any GK units that might be vulnerable with the reduced Ld effect - although Purifiers are the best warp batteries we have and they hardly ever care (OK, so if you are facing a Nightbringer C'tan you might care).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Gate isn't a 'move' though. You take off board and replace.

If it ceases to be, does that happen before you take them off board? Does it happen *while* they are off board? Does that count as a mishap? Does the unit just die instead?

What happens if you use the Bangel movement one, move an entire squad 12", then the last member to move clips the Bubble? He stops? The entire Unit can't move and you move them back?

It's a cluster of rules ignorance.

Nah, with 'Levitation' it's pretty clear what happens. Officer Culexus puts out the caltrops and your BA unit grinds to a halt, psychic tires slashed out. He then writes you a ticket to have your hearts eaten in front of you while you die (both of them).

Nah, because the way 'Gate' gets stopped is simple. If you place within 12" of the Culexus, you stop. He's a hidden teleport homer ;) no scatter.

[Gentlemanloser]

When does levitation stop?  You ignore the problem of it being the last mini moved that triggers the bubble.

 

What happens when Gate gets stopped?  Are they on board outside the bubble, like a Drop Pods Scatter reduction?  Are they at thier original position?  Are they in Deep Strike Mishap?

 

The rules are simply too threadbare to cover this.

 

GW can't just handwave "nothing works" without providing the actual rules of *how* things stop working.  Well, they can (and did!), but it's lazy and ineffective.

[Zembar]

I'd probably disallow the gate target inside the bubble, and rule that any scatter into the bubble would be reduced until the original unit is outside the bubble as close to the target point as possible, with mishaps if that happens to be in an illegal spot.

 

But that's just a house rule I made up in my head right now. The rules, as usual, say nothing. The argument for a mishap is as good as the argument for that they arrive without scatter, or that they simply cease to exist.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

When does levitation stop?  You ignore the problem of it being the last mini moved that triggers the bubble.

 

What happens when Gate gets stopped?  Are they on board outside the bubble, like a Drop Pods Scatter reduction?  Are they at thier original position?  Are they in Deep Strike Mishap?

 

The rules are simply too threadbare to cover this.

 

GW can't just handwave "nothing works" without providing the actual rules of *how* things stop working.  Well, they can (and did!), but it's lazy and ineffective.

 

'Wingardium Levioso' ends when Harry is within 12" of the Culexus. How is that hard to understand? 

 

When 'Gate' is stopped, the unit stops moving. So, as they came within 12" of the Culexus, they stop right there and pay the toll. Namely having their minds ripped out of their skull painfully. No 'Mishap' occurs, unless they ended up in impassable terrain or on top of another unit. 

 

Lol, of course GW can. They do it all the time. Look at the mess that is the Psychic phase. I still have stupid arguments here and IRL with people about Mastery levels and explanatory text. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

'Wingardium Levioso' ends when Harry is within 12" of the Culexus. How is that hard to understand?

 

Missing the problem still. ;)

 

Squad Hogwarts (20 man strong) all move an extra 12" due to levitation.  19 members move the full 12" and don;'t hit a Culexes.

 

Harry however, the 20th member of the Squad, moves last, and managed to clip a Culexes bubble after moving only 1".

 

What happens to the Squad?

 

Do the other 19 members keep their 12" movement because they have already moved?  Is only Harry stopped?  Do the whole Squad get to move only 1"?  What happens if there isn't enough physical space to place the other 19 members after a 1" move?

[Zembar]

'Wingardium Levioso' ends when Harry is within 12" of the Culexus. How is that hard to understand?

Missing the problem still.

Squad Hogwarts (20 man strong) all move an extra 12" due to levitation. 19 members move the full 12" and don;'t hit a Culexes.

Harry however, the 20th member of the Squad, moves last, and managed to clip a Culexes bubble after moving only 1".

What happens to the Squad?

Do the other 19 members keep their 12" movement because they have already moved? Is only Harry stopped? Do the whole Squad get to move only 1"? What happens if there isn't enough physical space to place the other 19 members after a 1" move?

He'd totally use his broom to cross the bubble. Haven't you read any HP?

[jeffersonian000]

In the case of Gate, there would be no effect, since the power was completed before the unit was removed from the table. The return via Deep Strike has nothing to do with the casting of the power, as seen by how Deep Strike interacts with the Mishap table. The only effect a Culexus wild have on the arriving Gated unit is its normal proximity effects such stealing Warp Charges, lowering Ld, etc..

 

As to other powers, we would have look at at how though powers are worded. If the power has a continuing effect until next turn, the effect would end as soon as a model enters the bubble. However, if the power simply grants an effect with no continuing presence, the bubble can't end an effect that isn't even there. All in all, each power needs to be looked at individually.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah Jeff.  When does the effect of a Psychic Power end?

 

Basically, you're advocating the ability to shoot a Culexes with a magic mind bullet.  As the casting of it finishes when the magic mind bullet is created.

 

Not after you've resolved the attack.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Missing the problem still.

Squad Hogwarts (20 man strong) all move an extra 12" due to levitation. 19 members move the full 12" and don;'t hit a Culexes.

Harry however, the 20th member of the Squad, moves last, and managed to clip a Culexes bubble after moving only 1".

What happens to the Squad?

Do the other 19 members keep their 12" movement because they have already moved? Is only Harry stopped? Do the whole Squad get to move only 1"? What happens if there isn't enough physical space to place the other 19 members after a 1" move?

You've answered your own question. You can't take back movement, and they made that movement whilst 'Wingardium' was still up. Harry the noob only gets 1" though. You'd then need to daisy-chain the unit back into coherency anyway.

[Gentlemanloser]

But the Power hasn't ceased.  By cheesing the order of movement, you've allowed the power to work.

 

Harry could have been moved first.  But wasn't, by design.

 

Edit: Also, isn't a units movement supposed to be all at the same time?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

But the Power hasn't ceased.  By cheesing the order of movement, you've allowed the power to work.

 

Harry could have been moved first.  But wasn't, by design.

 

Edit: Also, isn't a units movement supposed to be all at the same time?

 

It's resolved at the same time. But each model moves seperately. The only rules being you can't move further than your maximum movement allowed, terrain slows you down, and you have to maintain coherency at all times. 

[Gentlemanloser]

But it's resolved at the same time.

 

So if the power allowing you to move 12" stops, then it stops for *all* members of the unit, right?

 

At the same time.