Akylas Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Hey everyone, I'm working on a fledgling BA DIY Successor force. With the next ETL coming up I'm thinking it's time to scratch an itch I've had for a long time now and build a tooled out Vanguard Vet squad. I know spending a lot of points on weapons for vets isn't very competitive but a points based competition seems a good excuse to do something I've wanted to. That said, I don't want them to be a completely worthless point sink. I have a Vanguard Vet box coming in this week and enough bits to accommodate most melee weapon builds. The biggest limiting factor would be some of the newer pistols. So far I've kitbashed one with dual lightning claws just because I really like him. Now I'm trying to figure out what to do for the 5-9 friends I want to build for him. I'm thinking the squad's main role will be to mulch up infantry, with some meltas and/or fists interspersed to threaten armor. I would like to throw in a power axe somewhere if that's feasible, and I've heard plain old close combat weapon plus stormshield can be good to tank for the squad. So, keeping in mind I'm giving up a degree of competitiveness just by wanting to spend a good chunk of points on these guys, is there anything in particular that would be a complete waste of points, or conversely some weapon combinations that work especially well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercus Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm planning a squad of five with jump packs, storm shields and power lances. Costs a bundle of points and in any competitive environment will be laughed off the table, but they sure will look pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 If you are going to have 1 with dual lightning claws, pay the extra points to make one claw a power fist. Still gives the +1 attack and gives you lots of combat options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akylas Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Stercus I just had an image pop into my head of a vet, shield attached to his arm by a strap, falling from the sky wielding a spear in both hands to impale some xenos scum below. What do you use for powerlances? JamesI I forgot about the deal with two specialist weapons. The hard part will be thinking of a cool way to model them, as it always seemed an odd combo on a model to me. Maybe claws on the left hand outstretched to impale the foe, with the Death Company powerfist pulled back to follow up by taking the enemy's head off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Hello, Akylas! In case you want to leep in mind competitiveness, remember Archangels Sanguine wing is arguably most competitive way to get vanguard veterans on the table. (Some people think It does not worth It.) Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSauce Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 You could start working towards the Archangels Sanguine Wing (from the Exterminatus campaign book). Formation of 2x10 man squads of vanguard vets, 1x 10-man squad of sternguard, and a stormraven. The bonus is that every vanguard vet gets a free power weapon or claw, and every sternguard gets a free combi. It's a lot of points to lay down, but a huge bonus in free upgrades as well. Wish-listing aside, I think it depends on what you want to build the squad for, but I would go for at least one or two storm shields to try and tank low ap shots, a couple of naked veterans to bolster numbers, and maybe a couple of power weapons to do the damage. If you're starting with a 5-man squad you could do 1 shield, 1 sword, 1 power fist. If you wanted to you could throw in a grav pistol, as that will make the unit pretty great at hunting MCs, which they can knock down to init 1 with the pistol and then beat on. Edit: Ninja'd by the captain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Sanguinary Guard. 1pt cheaper than a VV with a power weapon 1 less attack due to two handed, but master crafted 1extra shot with 1 better AP 2+ rather than 3+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akylas Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm such a rank newbie when it comes to the gaming side of things I hadn't really thought beyond a standard CAD force. On the one hand it's an excellent excuse to give the whole squad some sort of power weapons. On the other the idea of having to build and paint thirty vets to play it seems rather daunting. Are melta bombs a good addition for anti-armor? DominicJ Sanguinary Guard are likely the better option but I have a soft spot for the vets. Plus, I have the vet box coming in the mail already. A Sanguinary Guard unit is very likely at some point in my future, although probably not in time for the ETL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 We have so many great assault units that can pick up similar equipment. I equip my vanguard with 3 shields, a fist, two claws, and 2 meltabombs. Not very cheap but I will usually run them in 2 units for redundancy, and they usually put up a good fight against everything, just keep them away from fodder units, these guys are meant to use their 3++ as much as possible to get the most out of them. Also have to mention I usually use them as 5 man units, but they can become very deadly as a full 10 man with an attached priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akylas Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Golden Aegis To clarify, are the guys with the shields carrying chainswords and the weapons going on the other vets in the squad? I should be able to kitbash a whole squad of the guys so maybe take the above, add a power weapon or two to the remaining five to taste, then run the last few naked? I could probably kitbash a Sanguinary Priest for the squad. I have the parts for an apothecary and some Death Company bits with chalice designs. Thanks. Now I have a new project and addition to my planned vow in the form of a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercus Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Glad you like the image, Akylas. My plan was to use grey knight halberd arms with the chopping blade removed and replaced with power swords to look more "poke-y". Storm shields will be attached either on the free arm for one hand wielded spears, or slung on the backpack for two hand wielded guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Powerfist, and Lightning Claw Marines have the shields, two last Marines use the bombs, but yeah. Nothing like a huge squad that's equally as survivable! You could swap that around if you feel it's too many points on the shield models, but I would at least give the sarge a shield, and fist so he may have a good chance to pummel anything. And all the weapons are specialist so you'll be losing the extra attack from the pistol anyways. Have these guys survive interceptor fire against Tau so often that my regular opponent doesn't even bother trying to use his high strength shots on them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I love my van vets, and have been playing them mainly in formations. I have played he intervention force (worked well agaist nids), and am building towards the all vet formation. After my first battle with a mixed weapon squad I dropped the squad down to three loadouts: stormshield with lightning claw, power axe and bolt pistol, and bp ccw. I had other guts before but rolling arracks took to long, and a second specialist weapon just costs too many points for me to justify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Invictus Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I built my Vanguard Veterans to look good primarily. I'm not a gamer really, I don't have time between my real life responsibilities, so effectiveness was secondary to style to me. Bearing in mind, my VV are for my Ultramarines, but I'll probably build the Sanguine Wing soon too, and I'll more than likely do something similar. I've got: 1× Sgt with relic blade, SS and melta bombs 2x Veterans with LC 1x Veteran with TH/SS 1x Veteran with power axe and SS All have jump packs and in the one game I used them, they chewed up a significant amount of orks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Sanguinary Guard. 1pt cheaper than a VV with a power weapon 1 less attack due to two handed, but master crafted 1extra shot with 1 better AP 2+ rather than 3+ Sanguinary guard. As resilient as a 4pt chaos cultist to plasma weaponry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 As resilient as a 4pt chaos cultist to plasma weaponry.Chaos cultist is T4 and fearless? [Edit]My bad, T4 makes no difference vs S7[/Edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 As resilient as a 4pt chaos cultist to plasma weaponry.Chaos cultist is T4 and fearless? [Edit]My bad, T4 makes no difference vs S7[/Edit] Exactly. What I have found in my local area is that a 2+ is essentially equivalent to a 3+ save, as people shoot MEQ with AP2 weapons. I'd probably choose 10 vanguard, 5 with shields and 5 with power weapons over 10 Sanguinary guard. Add bombs and fists to taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'd probably choose 10 vanguard, 5 with shields and 5 with power weapons over 10 Sanguinary guard. Add bombs and fists to taste. Ditto. The only thing my SG has managed to achieve so far is dying horribly. :( T4 2+ is not tough in the game as it stands. They just become an excellent target for low AP fire, which is plentiful. DC, VVs and command squads all make for far more point efficient units. As for the VVs themselves I really like the addition of a grav pistol. Forcing something tough to strike at I 1 can be a game changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 As resilient as a 4pt chaos cultist to plasma weaponry.Chaos cultist is T4 and fearless? [Edit]My bad, T4 makes no difference vs S7[/Edit] Exactly. What I have found in my local area is that a 2+ is essentially equivalent to a 3+ save, as people shoot MEQ with AP2 weapons. I'd probably choose 10 vanguard, 5 with shields and 5 with power weapons over 10 Sanguinary guard. Add bombs and fists to taste. Wait, can you not have pistols, power weapons, and shields at the same time? Why only five shields and five power weapons? Can they be the same model? Is it more about cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 The big reason for power weapons not being on the shield models is the loss of the extra attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Lightning claws are good candidates for shields, because you will lose the attack for only having one specialist weapon anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 As resilient as a 4pt chaos cultist to plasma weaponry.Chaos cultist is T4 and fearless? [Edit]My bad, T4 makes no difference vs S7[/Edit] Exactly. What I have found in my local area is that a 2+ is essentially equivalent to a 3+ save, as people shoot MEQ with AP2 weapons. I'd probably choose 10 vanguard, 5 with shields and 5 with power weapons over 10 Sanguinary guard. Add bombs and fists to taste. Wait, can you not have pistols, power weapons, and shields at the same time? Why only five shields and five power weapons? Can they be the same model? Is it more about cost? Your questions have been answered, really. I was making a unit comparable, but tougher, in my local meta, than Sanguinary Guard. the shield guys go at the front to absorb low AP shots, meaning the power weapons hopefully make it into combat. I would of course consider a hammer/shield serge, or claw/shield serge, to mix things up once they got into combat. They can of course, take power weapon, pistol and shield together, but they lose the +1 attack. Shields go with specialist weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hello, Xenith! That's right, SG dies horribly to low AP shooting since most players bring AP2 weapons (plasma mainly). On the other hand 2+ armour save is extremely useful in close combat becasuse AP2 CC attacks are pretty rare (or at least arrive at I1 thanks to unwieldy), and also very useful against small arms fire. I think the key in getting the most mileage from SG is hiding them in the enemy's shooting phase (behind tanks) and overloading the enemy with similarly tough targets (like tanks, DC, termies etc). Just use them as a dedicated CC unit and keep them well away of AP2 guns. Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 As resilient as a 4pt chaos cultist to plasma weaponry.Chaos cultist is T4 and fearless? [Edit]My bad, T4 makes no difference vs S7[/Edit] Exactly. What I have found in my local area is that a 2+ is essentially equivalent to a 3+ save, as people shoot MEQ with AP2 weapons. I'd probably choose 10 vanguard, 5 with shields and 5 with power weapons over 10 Sanguinary guard. Add bombs and fists to taste. Wait, can you not have pistols, power weapons, and shields at the same time? Why only five shields and five power weapons? Can they be the same model? Is it more about cost? Your questions have been answered, really. I was making a unit comparable, but tougher, in my local meta, than Sanguinary Guard. the shield guys go at the front to absorb low AP shots, meaning the power weapons hopefully make it into combat. I would of course consider a hammer/shield serge, or claw/shield serge, to mix things up once they got into combat. They can of course, take power weapon, pistol and shield together, but they lose the +1 attack. Shields go with specialist weapons. I have a shield/relic blade sergeant built, mainly because I could. Probably would be more effective to make it a claw but I like the model as is. I also have a shield/fist veteran, but I wouldn't want him as the sergeant since I don't want to risk him ending up in challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Well, I don't like the way fists look, so I'm going to skip out on that. Also, claws that aren't on terminators look bad to me, so I'll skip out on that, too :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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