Vel'Cona Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I think it's hard to argue VV in current 40k meta simply because they're more expensive than AM and lose the ability to take Meltaguns. If we really want a JP assault unit, DC are simply the best choice from a cost effectiveness standpoint. They still die in droves to plasma, but they have so many other advantages that everything else just tends to look pale in comparison. That said, if you were trying to build VV for effectiveness, I think it'd be best to avoid too many upgrades and go for a mix of SS models (just SS, to soak wounds) and power weapon/lightning claw guys to do the killing. Power fists are a problem because Unwieldy tends to work against them quite a bit, and you do have access to meltabombs if you need to end tanks. If your VVs end up brawling with MCs, they're probably doomed no matter what they're carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 If you're brawling with MCs, then grav pistols are essential in order to lower their Initiative to 1 right before CC. And really the greatest advantage that Vanguards have over other dedicated heavy hitters we posess, is the option to add inv save. SG have the 2+ armor save and power weapons but no inv save. DC have the most attacks & fnp. HG have the same options as VV & fnp but are limited to 5 models After some testing and the current meta in my area, I'd go with 8 vanguards with jump pack, 2 grav pistols, a thunder hammer or fist, a power weapon and 1 or 2 SS. I don't usually go overboard with lots of SS because I rely heavily on terrain and cover in my games, to protect them from low ap fire. The addition of the grav pistols can ensure that they'll strike first most of the times, and even if that doesn't work, the +1 Initiative on the charge also helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I wonder if they'd be more valuable in that three Jump Infantry unit formation from a WD a while back? I can't remember the specifics but I know it had some nifty rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Vanguard Vets are nice in order to use Angel's Wrath Intervention Force formation from White Dwarf. That is the only use I get out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 NOTE: this is also in the Mephiston thread but is relevant to this subject as well. What about this pseudo Death Star: -Mephiston -Brother Corbulo (wha????!? Don't see that often!) -Vanguard Veteran x5 --Sgt. w/ Relic blade and Storm Shield --1x VV w/ 2x LC --1x VV w/ Plasma pistol and Chainsword --1x VV w/ Plasma pistol and Storm Shield --1x VV w/ Storm Shield and Chainsword --5x Melta Bombs -Rhino (Drop Pod for 10pts less) Total cost = 555pts (Change out pistol types to taste). Why this? A) VV equipped thus cost the same as 5x TH/SS Terminators in a Drop Pod B) this: 3x Plasma pistols for ranged AP2 dakka 3x 3++ SS for tanking Wounds 3x AP3 melee weapons (Meph, Relic Blade, 2x LC) -5x Melta bombs + Meph w/ Sanguine Sword for anti-vehicle WS + 1 to ALL (Corbulo) S + 1 on the Charge (Furious Charge) I + 1 to ALL (Corbulo) I + 2 on the Charge (Corbulo + Baal Strike Force) FNP 5+ to ALL (Corbulo) You're talking an average of 4x S5 Attacks hitting at WS5 and swinging at I6, with 3+/3++/FNP receiving whatever might come back at them. This is expensive but against MEQs this is absolutely deadly...all 7 models attacking well before enemies can even process it. Make Corbulo the Warlord for extra lulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Against monsterous creatures vanvets can rock. Most MCs are t6, so lightning claws will kill them on the charge, and stormshields will save you if you don't. I owned a tyranid played with a vanvet squad (intervention force formation), and the best part was that I forgot avout furious charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 How? You wound on 5s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 How? You wound on 5s Weight of attacks I guess, Rerolling with shed at ap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 But having many LCs in the squad is not exactly cost efficient, and the VVs could easily be double the cost of a MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingSpreeJDM Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 But having many LCs in the squad is not exactly cost efficient, and the VVs could easily be double the cost of a MC.-vahouth I thought this at first but as long as they are killing there points worth it shouldnt matter. no matter how much more points they are then the mc at least they are doing there job killing it and that's what we want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I thought this at first but as long as they are killing there points worth it shouldnt matter. no matter how much more points they are then the mc at least they are doing there job killing it and that's what we wantToo bad when the MC or one of his buddies throws around S10 AP2 pieplates and they die before ever reaching the first MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingSpreeJDM Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 You say that as if the star is your only unit . You obviously are fielding more then that they will be worried about and there is a lot to take into consideration it's not just oh pie plates Counters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 The problem is, when you have such an expensive unit, you will have fewer other units to draw fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hmm, will I plate your 800pt death star or your 85pt scout squad, decisions decisions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingSpreeJDM Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hmm, will I plate your 800pt death star or your 85pt scout squad, decisions decisions... the scouts are 70 with sniper and cc and the star we are talking about is 555 so not sure what you are reading or if you are at all because like I said it's not just pie plate counter... there is more to take into consideration on both sides but you do you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I've ran five man Vanvet squads with three stormshields and five lightning claws. They stay hidden until needed, or deep strike in with two flammer asm squads to cover them. They have not yet been singled out by an opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingSpreeJDM Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I've ran five man Vanvet squads with three stormshields and five lightning claws. They stay hidden until needed, or deep strike in with two flammer asm squads to cover them. They have not yet been singled out by an opponent. If you were to run this little star what would be your tactics when drop podding them in? it would be great to have some advice from someone who is familiar with fielding the VV Mephiston -Brother Corbulo -Vanguard Veteran x5 --Sgt. w/ Relic blade and Storm Shield --1x VV w/ 2x LC --1x VV w/ Plasma pistol and Chainsword --1x VV w/ Plasma pistol and Storm Shield --1x VV w/ Storm Shield and Chainsword --5x Melta Bombs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I can bring myself to drop pod in vanvets. They need their mobility more qfter they drop in than they need precision on the deployment. I also refuse to put anything more than a character with the relic jumppack in the unit. It works because it appears to be less of a threat than it actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 If you add an ordo xenos inquisitor to that with the rad grenades things could get very ugly. Wounding most opponents on 2s rerolling. Instant Deathing anyone toughness 6 with Mephiston :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjak Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 You can have Dante join a VV squad (2 dudes with SS/chainswords/melta-bombs, 2 dudes with power lances/bps//melta-bombs and a sgt with SS/TH) accompanied by Sanguinary Priest to provide FNP and the +1 WS bump Wtih Dante tanking the AP3+ shots and and passing AP2s to the 3 Storm shield guys, you'll have a pretty durable mini-death star that's small enough to hide behind cover and tough enough (relatively speaking) to survive 1 or 2 rounds of fire. Throw in a few Death Company squads on its flanks while you have assault marines and/or fragiosos drop-podding in his deployment zone and you should make the average enemy player sweat a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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