Blood Angels' Black Rage

[Julgolax]

I've been wondering about this eerie curse lately, with my successor chapter being derived from the Blood Angels. I've read about it and I know about it, but I'm trying to understand exactly why this is such a problem with the space marines. I understand that it's caused from the events of the Horus Heresy but what I don't understand is why the Blood Angels' Librarians aren't called into a role of basically playing whack-a-mole in and out of battle with the minds of their brethren. To me, if it's a mental issue that comes about when the Blood Angels get over excited and over extended in battle, then why wouldn't the Librarians have the job of quelling this sad, eerie madness lurking in their brother's minds?

[Arkangilos]

That's not what it is, though.

 

The Black Rage is them completely losing their minds to insanity. They literally believe they are Sanguinius, so much so that all of their old personality is lost, and they can't feel what is happening to them (hence why they can survive more than normal people). It isn't them getting overexcited.

 

That, and they usually fall to the Red Thirst shortly after.

 

Plus, it's genetic. 

[Julgolax]

Even if it's genetic, it's still a mental state, which I would think such mighty psykers as Librarians could do something to prevent or at least contain. Not to mention, if it really is a full blown insanity light switch, what's keeping the rest of them sane? It sounds more like they're covering up chaos taint from Ka'bandha's curse like Dark Angels covering up Fallen, than merely keeping their minds focused on what they're doing rather than on these living dreams. Basically, I'm under the assumption that before and during combat, they have to suppress their urges and focus on the now rather than something as live wire as lurking insanity. I mean if the latter were the case, I find it hard to believe they'd last 100 years, let alone 10,000. All space marines are psychologically indoctrinated to suppress emotion and outside influences. That said, the great Flaw must be quite potent for so many poor souls to be lost to the Death Company all the time, but it can't happen too often or there wouldn't be a Blood Angels chapter nor their successor lineage. Plus, I also doubt that these successors lost to the Flaw such as the "Brothers of the Red" chapter supposedly was, died off solely by the Black Rage itself. I surmise that any of these successors lost to the Black Rage were more or less beaten too many times to recover and the Black Rage increased by a ratio equivalent to the members left in the chapter until all were lost. Space marines don't always win after all.

[Arkangilos]

When Sanguinius died, there was a psychic backlash that implanted itself in the psyche of all BA from that point forward, it scarred the Gene Seed. This flaw randomly manifests itself (no one has any idea why), and they see visions of Sanguinius' last day. They believe they are Sanguinius. It is totally random, which is why they don't all suffer from it.

 

The urges they always have to suppress is known as the Red Thirst, and every one of them suffers from that. That is what makes them blood thirsty. Some fall to that completely, and those that do are executed or locked away in the tower until they can find a cure.

 

Also, Librarians can't make insane people sane. It isn't as simple as, "Oh, he's a loon, lets fix him." Its a, "Oh, his genetic code just screwed up, and now his mind is altered forever. Well, lets hope he can die and end his suffering."

[jeffersonian000]

Except that the Black Rage is survivable, at least in one case.

 

SJ

[Arkangilos]

Except that the Black Rage is survivable, at least in one case.

 

SJ

Two, Mephiston was changed from having survived the Red Thirst to having survived the Black Rage. 

 

One completely overcame it, one has "control" over it. It still doesn't change what I said, though.

 

I will also note that the one that has control is studied and put in stasis when he isn't being used. So I'm sure they have tried just about everything they could. And even though he is "lucid" he's still having problems, and there are a lot of physical, non mental changes.

[Sviar]

The urges they always have to suppress is known as the Red Thirst, and every one of them suffers from that. That is what makes them blood thirsty. Some fall to that completely, and those that do are executed or locked away in the tower until they can find a cure.

 

Every Chapter but one supresses the bloodlust, the Blood Drinkers surrenders to it. According to Lexicanum the blood rites saves most Blood Drinkers from the Black Rage as well. 

This could be something for the BA and their successors.

[Arkangilos]

 

The urges they always have to suppress is known as the Red Thirst, and every one of them suffers from that. That is what makes them blood thirsty. Some fall to that completely, and those that do are executed or locked away in the tower until they can find a cure.

 

Every Chapter but one supresses the bloodlust, the Blood Drinkers surrenders to it. According to Lexicanum the blood rites saves most Blood Drinkers from the Black Rage as well. 

This could be something for the BA and their successors.

 

It's a lot darker than that for the Blood Drinkers, and it doesn't really save them from the Black Rage. It is rumored that it may *slightly* decrease it. 

[Julgolax]

When Sanguinius died, there was a psychic backlash that implanted itself in the psyche of all BA from that point forward, it scarred the Gene Seed. This flaw randomly manifests itself (no one has any idea why), and they see visions of Sanguinius' last day. They believe they are Sanguinius. It is totally random, which is why they don't all suffer from it.

 

The urges they always have to suppress is known as the Red Thirst, and every one of them suffers from that. That is what makes them blood thirsty. Some fall to that completely, and those that do are executed or locked away in the tower until they can find a cure.

 

Also, Librarians can't make insane people sane. It isn't as simple as, "Oh, he's a loon, lets fix him." Its a, "Oh, his genetic code just screwed up, and now his mind is altered forever. Well, lets hope he can die and end his suffering."

 

Well, I see this psychic backlash is what basically made the Black Rage as I know he was semi-psychic but I also think the Red Thirst has something to do with the curse inflicted upon the legion by Ka'bandha.

 

I am still wondering more about the frequency of the Black Rage in these chapters. To me it's more important because as you've said, it's far less controllable, which is really unsettling if I may say so. It can't be all that frequent because if it were, these chapters would fall apart within a century.

 

And as for the Librarians, I've read how they can enter the mind and speak as though with the voice of a god. You're telling me not a single Librarian has been successful in taming the mind of a raging battle brother in 10,000 years? I mean, I'm talking some real Jedi stuff, obi wan kenobi and luke skywalker stuff. There's a scene in the first book of the Salamanders Tome of Fire series in which Librarian Pyriel stopped the Marines Malevolent Techmarine, aboard the Archimedes Rex, from using his thundefire cannon on the Salamanders with a thunderous psychic voice.

[Arkangilos]

Well, I see this psychic backlash is what basically made the Black Rage as I know he was semi-psychic but I also think the Red Thirst has something to do with the curse inflicted upon the legion by Ka'bandha.

 

They had the Red Thirst before they fought Ka'Bandha if you follow that line. Read Fear to Tread.

 

But the codex says,"Sanguinius' death heralded the birth of the Red Thirst..."

 

I am still wondering more about the frequency of the Black Rage in these chapters.

 

"Once the chapter would lose perhaps a handful of battle-brothers to this phenomenon in any given campaign. Now it is not unheard of for whole formations to plunge into madness, and the struggle to replace them becomes more pronounced with each fresh conflict the Blood Angels face."

And as for the Librarians, I've read how they can enter the mind and speak as though with the voice of a god. You're telling me not a single Librarian has been successful in taming the mind of a raging battle brother in 10,000 years?

 

"The Black Rage is a spiritual sickness, a malady from which no scion of Sanguinius is safe... Despite every effort by the afflicted Chapters to resist the curse, its grip seems only to have tightened as the centuries have passed..." ~Pg 21.

 

"In his place stood Mephiston, the only Blood Angel tever to conquer the Black Rage." ~Codex: Blood Angels, pg. 57

 

"Lemartes was holding his rage in check through willpower alone." ~Pg 69.

 

 

It's not just something that can be cured with a jedi mind trick, they have tried everything. And in all of their history, only one man has ever overcome it. One man, through extreme willpower, can control it, but they aren't sure how long that will last. It's more than just someone "going crazy" so that a Librarian can "make him sane again." It is an entire mental reprogramming. You would have no not only save his old mind in some sort of machine (which isn't possible), but you would also have to mind wipe him, and then find a new body, because his old one's genetics are rewiring his brain. They aren't "John" anymore, they are Sanguinius. They are literally the last minutes of him. 

[The Red Thirst]

 

 

The urges they always have to suppress is known as the Red Thirst, and every one of them suffers from that. That is what makes them blood thirsty. Some fall to that completely, and those that do are executed or locked away in the tower until they can find a cure.

 

Every Chapter but one supresses the bloodlust, the Blood Drinkers surrenders to it. According to Lexicanum the blood rites saves most Blood Drinkers from the Black Rage as well. 

This could be something for the BA and their successors.

 

It's a lot darker than that for the Blood Drinkers, and it doesn't really save them from the Black Rage. It is rumored that it may *slightly* decrease it. 

 

Id also like to point out Sviar that the Blood Drinkers fluff has been fleshed out to a certain extent [see Rite of Holos & Death of Integrity] we now know that our Brothers of the Blood Drinkers are actually more damned than saved, it has been alluded to that the "Rite of Holos" [an actual rite, not just a good short story] is actually a curse in its own right were by a daemon tricked their chapter into finding a "Cure" and now each battle brother must perform the rite or be lost to insanity and damn their chapter in the process. They may look more tame on the outside, but they are further down the path of damnation than most.

 

As for the Rage itself and as others have stated, it is a genetic scar with mental side-effects. For this reason the mind cannot be repaired if the flesh is flawed. Please also dont forget that the Librarians suffer from this same curse and would [iMO] risk their own sanity by delving into the minds of their fallen brothers, this has been done before [see Know Thyself] where it shows a Flesh Tearers Librarian "transfering" part of the flaw to an snooping Inquisitor, after this process Seth sends one of his Chaplains to watch over the Librarian and in the event he shows any sign of the Flaw he is to be put to death. 

 

After all is said and done however this hobby and its fluff is malleable, the Librarians as spiritual healers of the chapter could be incorporated into the Sanguinary Priesthood for instance is by no means a bad idea, however caution must be taken as it shouldnt be a perminant fix, our chapters are doomed to extinction and that fact alone is something that alot of us love about our boys in red.

[Shaezus]

Perhaps the reason why our librarians are unable to contain it is simply because it is too powerful for them? Sanguinius had a certain gift of prophecy and was psychically sensitive, as seen when he was felled on Signus Prime, so it wouldn't be a far cry to suggest that his power is behind the force of the black rage.

 

The Black Rage does have a genetic association, but its origins are 'psychic'. 

[Brother Raul]

IMO the red thirst is a genetic flaw that is always present where as the black rage is a psychic backlash that slowly reverberates through the astartes sub concious since Sanguinus was slain. Its genetic too, but a mutation from this backlash.

 

A BA astartes can recover his wits after sucumbing to the red thirst but not after suffering the black rage. Mephy sold his soul to continue serving the emperor, Lemmy is in stasis most of the time and is slowly sucumbing.

 

Althought the Blood drinkers believe giving in to the red thirst prevents the black rage IMO its the opposite for most BA chapters. Flesh tearers are a case in point. I think the more you drink the closer to suffering the rage you become.

[Azekellon]

Brother Rafen of the 5th company grappled with the Black Rage, in order to use the Spear of Tolesto, howevr, he by no means succumbed to it. He did also come close before, from the machinations of the psyker witch Ramius Stele.

[Arkangilos]

Rafen doesn't exist, neither do the events of those stories :p

The fact that such a major event is skipped over by the codex gladdens me to no end. It allows for the argument that none of that happened, so both sides can win.

 

A BA astartes can recover his wits after sucumbing to the red thirst but not after suffering the black rage.

Not when they fully succumb. There is a point of no return, which is where the Tower comes in. Those that are lost completely are locked away or executed.

Mephy sold his soul to continue serving the emperor, Lemmy is in stasis most of the time and is slowly succumbing

Both of these are completely false. Mephiston overcame it when a vision of Sanguinius came to him during his seven nights, and Sanguinius drove him to push himself to be cured of it. He did NOT sell his soul. The only thing that hinted to that was Ward in the last codex, and it was "some believe" not "he did". Every other codex has said it was purely Sanguinius.

 

Lemartes is not "slowly" succumbing. He alreadu succumbed to it, completely. However, unlike everyone else, he was lucid and had complete control over it. They put him in stasis because they were afraid he would lose control, and they want him as long as they can for study.

Althought the Blood drinkers believe giving in to the red thirst prevents the black rage IMO its the opposite for most BA chapters. Flesh tearers are a case in point. I think the more you drink the closer to suffering the rage you become.

The flesh tearers, to my knowledge, don't give into the red thirst like the Blood Drinkers, but the Blood Drinkers have something far more sinister and dark behind their rituals that can damn their chapter with but one mistake, so it's not as good as people think. I mean, the premise is awesome, and the thought that that mistake hasn't happened yet is awesome, but it's a dark, dark solution. It's not as simple as, "they drink blood, they are controlling it's"