ChaoticEric Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 So I'm thinking of going to a local tournament in a couple of weeks and would bring a pure grey knights list. It's only for fun so I'm not going to get uber-competitive but even though I want to bring a pure gk list I still don't want to make a complete fool of myself and when I do, I want it to be down to my ham fisted gaming, not the list :) Allies are allowed but they all count as allies of convenience (even running two detachments/formations of the same faction counts as allies of convenience which is rather inconvenient I find) and I prefer pure armies even though I'm about to get massacred by xenos scum :) Armies are 2000p and there's a cap on maximum 2 dreadknights per army (not per detachment/formation). Under these circumstances I've been having some dark thoughts of perhaps bringing a dreadnought with either a multimelta or tl lascannon to get at least some high str/low ap shooting. Or would the internet still vote against it and if so, what should fill that role instead (putting a bit of pressure on armour from a distance)? Land raider? Razorbacks? Default choice of a storm raven? I haven't decided on much else in terms of list yet but I'm thinking of the usual; two dreadknights, couple of squads of termies, perhaps some purifiers, perhaps some interceptors. Probably one or two librarians or perhaps draigo instead of one of them. Maybe a storm raven... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Armies are 2000p and there's a cap on maximum 2 dreadknights per army Why? And are other factions equally handicapped? I'd still got for more TDA and Stormravens over Dreadnoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Are any other armies penalized the same way as GK are? If not, don't go, because they are being unfair, and unfair in one thing generally means unfair in others. It they are applying the same 0-2 cap on specific units in each army, I'd be interested in seeing what other units they think are on par with NDKs. Personally, I only take 2 NDKs, anyway, so no buggy for me. But I also like taking Imperial Knights in big games because they a literally "Superheavy" NDKs, from my point of view. That said, Dreadnoughts can be very good due to our 0-4 Elites in an NSF. However, they still aren't all that good due to bring too expensive for what you get. Going full on Rifleman with them does added needed 48" to our 24" army, so there is that. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I hope others are equally limited. If you must take a dreadnought, take the forgeworld doomglaive dreadnought Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEric Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Armies are 2000p and there's a cap on maximum 2 dreadknights per army Why? And are other factions equally handicapped? I'd still got for more TDA and Stormravens over Dreadnoughts. I'm not the organizer so as much as I dislike it and find it unfair, I can't change it :) Actually the limit is maximum two units per army of units of either dreadknights, riptides, missilesides or wraithknights (i.e. you can bring one dreadknight and one riptide but not two dreadknights and one riptide) so tau took a pretty hard hit as well. I also think there's a limit on wave serpents but it's not that important, it wasn't the limits I wanted to discuss primarily :) Perhaps I'll go with a storm raven and pack it full of purifiers then, as usual. It's just a pity, I have two beautifully painted dreadnoughts that never get to see the field of battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 If you like your DNs, field them. Winners set the trend, they don't follow. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEric Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 If you like your DNs, field them. Winners set the trend, they don't follow. SJ Haha, I'm hardly a winner in this hobby but you're right, I think I'll bring a dreadnought anyway. Or two razorbacks which adds up to roughly the same points, they have lascannon + plasma and they are equally beautifully painted :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Are Forgeworld units allowed? I've tried then vortimer dreadnought pattern last day... and was very good.. that glaive is so much good. you should try it... (i think that dreadnought is 40k legal) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEric Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Are Forgeworld units allowed? I've tried then vortimer dreadnought pattern last day... and was very good.. that glaive is so much good. you should try it... (i think that dreadnought is 40k legal) Unfortunately no fw, neither 30k nor 40k units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Rubbish arbitrary restrictions. Take 6 units of Grav Centurions. I'd do that, just on principle. Edit: Or use your Dreadnoughts as Ironclads in Drop Pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4000784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Take your two DK's, and a Centurion Star with Draigo. Make those organisers regret ever experimenting with comp restrictions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 ^ lol Seriously? Why not take a Dreadnought. Maybe you get good sportsmanship scores? Why not try using something that -might- fill a gap with MM or twin las? I know it's sub-optimal, but I call those care bear tournies and often they cater to a very 'fluffy' audience and often strong gameplay can go quite far in those settings. I'd say it's entirely dependent on why you're going. A dread wouldn't be so horrid with pods... I dunno, I think of my chaos and Helbrutes are so bad without the Dataslate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The cent star doesn't work if all allies are ally of convienece does it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Seriously? Why not take a Dreadnought. Maybe you get good sportsmanship scores? Why not try using something that -might- fill a gap with MM or twin las? They're overpriced garbage and cost more than in our last codex. Why would you ever bother? I know it's sub-optimal, but I call those care bear tournies and often they cater to a very 'fluffy' audience and often strong gameplay can go quite far in those settings. There is nothing fluffy about arbitrary comp restrictions. They can ban or restrict as much as they like, but someone will still bring broken stuff. Vis a vis, Draigo+Centurions. I'd say it's entirely dependent on why you're going. A dread wouldn't be so horrid with pods... I dunno, I think of my chaos and Helbrutes are so bad without the Dataslate. We don't get drop pods. that requires Allies, and frankly its a waste of effort when you could put Purifiers in that pod instead and get much better results. Allies are allowed but they all count as allies of convenience (even running two detachments/formations of the same faction counts as allies of convenience which is rather inconvenient I find) and I prefer pure armies even though I'm about to get massacred by xenos scum WHAT. THE. HELL. Don't go man. They're insane. It's not worth watching your army blown off the table by xenos lists, who don't need or care about Allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterOffShred Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah that seems like a pretty bogus event if you ask me. It really does seem heavily sided towards Xenos armies, and I'd be surprised if anything but won it. If you can stomach fielding stuff that's trash this edition just to go and play, I'm sure you wont be surprised when it performs accordingly. Of course being there is still dice rolling involved you could get super lucky and have everything turn out wonderfully! I just wouldn't count on it.. -Brett Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I haven't used one since our new dex dropped. They just took too hard a hit. They're just too expensive, we pay almost vanilla venerable prices just to get a single warp charge. So they actually went up in price, even though they removed the amazing reinforced aegis they had, force power fists (nemesis doomfists), psyflame ammo AND psybolts! It seriously wasn't/isn't right to nerf something soooo hard into the ground, especially since it was noooooowhere near game/meta breaking because they were just dreadnoughts after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 What's a vortimer pattern Dread? I've got IA2 second edition and all I see is the Doomglaive Dread... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The event he's talking also only lets people bring two detachments, and the second one has to be a knight, an allied detachment, or a formation. The only thing that doesn't point to a total xeno-fest is that they also don't allow decurion detachments. I saw now that they also have a four flier limit, and Codex: Officio Assassinorum isn't on the approved list of sources. With these kind of restrictions, along with the rule changes they use, can they even call it a 40k tournament with a straight face? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 What's a vortimer pattern Dread? I've got IA2 second edition and all I see is the Doomglaive Dread... Oh.. that's what i mean... some places calls him as vortimer pattern... but. it's the same Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Seriously? Why not take a Dreadnought. Maybe you get good sportsmanship scores? Why not try using something that -might- fill a gap with MM or twin las? They're overpriced garbage and cost more than in our last codex. Why would you ever bother? Why? He just said he has two really nicely painted Dreads. Why? He seems to be going to a carebear tournie where he may actually be rewarded in the form of sportsmanship or composition scoring. Don't go man. They're insane. It's not worth watching your army blown off the table by xenos lists, who don't need or care about Allies. You have to realize that not all tournaments are the same. If the OP wants to go to such a tournament it could be for a lot of reasons... friends are going, it's his only option, he may even WANT to play in a comp restrictive tournament. I say this because one of our oldest local tournaments is like this. It draws a -different- kind of player out. IF someone turns up with Draigo Gate to that type of tournament their sporsmanship scoring will be so bad after one game they won't be able to finish top 5 after that one game even if they clean the floor everyone else they play. Personally I don't play in these tournaments anymore. I've won large tournaments (50+ people) and I've also played in Comp heavy tournaments (highest finish was 2nd and 3rd), and in all that experience I'll admit that I do think Comp is flat out stupid imo. It doesn't fix a darn thing.... one army's garbage is another army's mega-uber unit. BUT I respect that there are some hobbiests, that think this is the way the game should be played. They would never get out of the basement otherwise. I respect that this is their arena and as such.. yes, you may want to take a Dreadnought to one of these. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 and in all that experience I'll admit that I do think Comp is flat out stupid imo. It doesn't fix a darn thing.... one army's garbage is another army's mega-uber unit. It's exactly that. You limit it to 2 NDK/Riptides/ETC total per army, and some dude turns up with 1850 points worth of Grav Centurion. End of the day, a game of 40k is played ot be won. And a tournament is orginised to find a *winner*. I find it an oxymoron to run a tournament that's designed to reward non winning. And arbitrary unit restricitons. Ugh. So biased it hurts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 and in all that experience I'll admit that I do think Comp is flat out stupid imo. It doesn't fix a darn thing.... one army's garbage is another army's mega-uber unit. It's exactly that. You limit it to 2 NDK/Riptides/ETC total per army, and some dude turns up with 1850 points worth of Grav Centurion. End of the day, a game of 40k is played ot be won. And a tournament is orginised to find a *winner*. I find it an oxymoron to run a tournament that's designed to reward non winning. And arbitrary unit restricitons. Ugh. So biased it hurts. But is this the opinion of someone who is simply playing to win? Or someone who re-built a moment he read about in a novel - and painted it to his best standard possible. Non-winning is in the eye of the beholder. I don't like comp, but some people actually love it. I do know people who only go to tournaments that reward 'army list design' and 'best painted'... I'm not kidding. These are good people, but they honestly could care less whether they 'win' the games. I suppose many of those people won't play GK.... I guess I'm somewhere inbetween. I don't go to tournaments to flat out win anymore. I just don't care to anymore. I try to be competitive with what I consider are 'fun' units. And yea, I admit, I've taken a sub-optimal unit just because I thought it looked just that damn cool... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Heavy comp can be quite challenging, as it requires more thought than simply loading up on the good stuff. From the listed restrictions, my normal 1850pt list would do fine ... up until I Gated Draigo, got boo'd, and lost due to an arbitrary hatred of a specific play style built in to the GK codex. I'd still have fun, and charm the pants off of my opponents to soften the inevitable Gate backlash. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEric Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Wow, this thread really got going in my absence :) As much as I also don't agree with certain limitations in this particular tournament, this hobby is just for fun to me and I go there mainly to play people I've never met before. Of course I'd prefer being able to stand up to most lists but under these rules I'll just accept that I won't be able to. There are no points for fluffy lists. Draigo-grav-star won't work as allies of convenience can't cast psychic powers on each other. I'm still thinking of bringing draigo but with a couple of paladins and an apothecary for ablative wounds and fnp. I might add that I only listed the restrictions relevant for my list and from the top of my head, I didn't take great care in getting all that right as it wasn't the point of my thread :) Just noticed that eldar can bring 4 wave serpents so I guess we have a winner army right there... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Space Marines are battle brothers with GK... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305738-never-ever-ever-bring-dreadnoughts-or/#findComment-4001569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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