Purifiers

[Castellan Blackmane]

I'm gonna run up to 10 purifiers because they are cool as all hell and I was just wanting to ask how you guys run your purifiers? I was thinking, combat squadding, adding crowe, get them into a nice position near a number of enemy units, fire off cleansing flame up to three times then charge into a nearby unit to avoid return fire. However the question of loadout and delivery is one I've been pondering. Should I load them into 2 razorbacks or a stormraven or what else? Should I just leave them with standard equipment or get some incinerators in there?

Thoughts? 

[jeffersonian000]

I don't run Purifiers, because their transportation needs are awkward. However, if I did, I'd go full retar .... Purifier, and take four squads of 10 with Crowe and a minimum squad of Strikes in an NSF, all in Rhinos.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Take a 10-man unit, mix in two hammers, take a Raven. Done. 

[Prot]

I'm trying something completely opposite. Largely because I haven't got the stuff all assembled, but this game I will be trying a very simple squad of 5 Purifiers in a dreaded rhino, with an Incinerator, and one Halbred.

 

I'm trying a theory here. I noticed opponents are so concerned with NDK's that I honestly believe the AV12 is going to be ignored. If someone goes full out on the Rhino, typically similar weaponry would be targeting the NDK's. 

 

Originally I was going to take 10 (combat squaded) in a Stormtalon, but I conceded that idea when it just seemed too hard for me to get the other stuff I wanted in the game.....(testing some other ideas).

 

So anyway, although I believe my simple plan might actually work, ideally I would rather run two squads like this, just to spread the AV12. I just compare the costs of Purifiers vs Strike squads, and it's just something I feel is automatically better in almost every way....

 

So I'll be trying 5 + Rhino, but I'd like to try twice that exactly, and see if I can benefit from splitting my opponent's fire, not to mention 4 WC's. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm trying a theory here. I noticed opponents are so concerned with NDK's that I honestly believe the AV12 is going to be ignored. If someone goes full out on the Rhino, typically similar weaponry would be targeting the NDK's. 

 

Rhinos are AV11. And no, it won't get ignored, it's carrying arguably the best PA unit in the game. 

[BetterOffShred]

I think it's a good idea.  Against lists with a giant S-pot of shooting you're probably going to get blasted right quick because everyone knows about the fury that lies within, but sure it's that many less shots aimed at your NDK's. 

 

As for the original question, based on the opinions of the fellows here and reading the codex, I made 10 with 2 hammers and 6 sets of falchions.  12 points per squad for 3 extra attacks is a pretty good deal in my opinion. 

 

-Brett

[Castellan Blackmane]

 

I'm trying a theory here. I noticed opponents are so concerned with NDK's that I honestly believe the AV12 is going to be ignored. If someone goes full out on the Rhino, typically similar weaponry would be targeting the NDK's. 

 

Rhinos are AV11. And no, it won't get ignored, it's carrying arguably the best PA unit in the game. 

 

Just to clarify, what does NDK and PA stand for?

[Castellan Blackmane]

Take a 10-man unit, mix in two hammers, take a Raven. Done. 

So say I take the raven. What loadout do you think and is it worth tacking on a dreadnought as like a gun platform?

[Emicus]

NDK is Nemesis DreadKnight.

PA is Power Armour.

 

As for Purifiers I've run a 5man suicide squad in Stormraven my last few games. TL-Multi-Melta I want to get close anyway and cleansing flame is excellent riot control vs horde armies :) Should probably try to support them to get another psychic phase off though.

[Prot]

I'm trying a theory here. I noticed opponents are so concerned with NDK's that I honestly believe the AV12 is going to be ignored. If someone goes full out on the Rhino, typically similar weaponry would be targeting the NDK's.

Rhinos are AV11. And no, it won't get ignored, it's carrying arguably the best PA unit in the game.

Sorry on the AV mistake... but to actually propose you know what my opponents will do is quite amazing. You must be a Warp Charge 3 Libby or something... maybe I should get you to buy my Lottery tickets this week on the way home from work?

And again, even so, if I get a few lucky smoke saves, or whatever, it can take some nice heat off of my NDKs. This is why ideally I'd try 2, but one thing at a time.

[IndigoJack]

I run either 2 or 3 units of 5 man purifers. All squads are identically equipped, with 2 psycannons in each unit, and a rhino for each. I spend turn one getting midfield and setting up a firebase, while my reserves come down on my opponents line. The only armies powerful enough to really stop me are tau and eldar, and even then only half the time when I don't get first turn. Late game, what's left of the purifiers push forward to clear my opponent's backfield with cleansing flame and assault, and my scoring units (usually inquisitorial henchman) move up to take objectives. The advantage this brings, is that it forces my opponent into some hard decisions, worry about the purifiers, or worry about the units I just dropped off on his doorstep. The best thing about purifiers is that they are dangerous to the last man. That lone model still knows cleansing flame and is still providing me with 2 warp charges to fuel psychic powers.

[Captain Coolpants]

I've always given them a hammer per 5,and if I have spare points, maybe a few helberds.

 

Although today in a 2000pts game against a daemonkin army, I'm doing a crazy thing, and giving them falchions... Just... Just because.

 

And I'm also using psycannon purgators because my brain is clearly broken.

[Prot]

The Falchions I get. Why not... if you have 4 points it's adding more cool sauce to an already cool unit, but I don't get the Psycannons. Honestly the unit to me is built for taking down spam, and those Psycannons are so expensive with limited return on investment while moving around. You get so much more mileage out of Psycannons on Termies.

[Rurik the blessed]

I run my purifiers on squads of ten, on a rhino... then combat squad them while you're in... advance and make some preasure with other units like Dreadlnights or even an imperial Knight.  then cast cleansing flame twice from the inside... as the rhino has fire points you can.

 

don't worry about the rhino... it will die... just let your opponent to waste shoots on it.

[IndigoJack]

Sure, terminators are relentless but you can get 5 purifiers with 2 psycannons cheaper than 5 terminators with one. And I've found that one I'm mid-field, I have a decent enough position that I can put out a lot of dakka.

[Rurik the blessed]

Sure, terminators are relentless but you can get 5 purifiers with 2 psycannons cheaper than 5 terminators with one. And I've found that one I'm mid-field, I have a decent enough position that I can put out a lot of dakka.

 

Great logic... most of peopple gives so much love to terminators, but PAGKs are equally cool. 

(those termis will fall in the same way as PAGKS against saturation)

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Take a 10-man unit, mix in two hammers, take a Raven. Done. 

 

Definitely agree on the Raven and 10 man squads.  One other thing I like to do is to go 2 hammers per squad so you can combat squad them if you chose.  Also, add a locator beacon on the raven.

 

When you deliver the squad, you can split them and create a really nice 18"-30" figure 8 "bubble" for your cleansing flame.  Or place the squads close together them close and double down on cleansing flame in the same radius.  Plus, you also have a hammer in each squad if you need to charge something tougher...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So say I take the raven. What loadout do you think and is it worth tacking on a dreadnought as like a gun platform?

As I suggested, bare bones, mix in hammers if you think they'll need them (its only 20pts, not much really for a bit of flexibility). No, Dreadnought is a waste of points, and your Raven is already a huge point sink with it's expensive Purifier cargo.

Sorry on the AV mistake... but to actually propose you know what my opponents will do is quite amazing. You must be a Warp Charge 3 Libby or something... maybe I should get you to buy my Lottery tickets this week on the way home from work?

Autocannons, shuriken cannon and Tau missile pods exist. AV11 will get deleted Turn 1 normally, even with smoke (Tau and Eldar can negate cover saves at will remember, so can Guard with Orders and Psykers). You can bury your head in the sand and pretend there isn't a good reason why no one mechs with GK. Or you can accept that the meta-game is currently geared towards glancing Knight-Titans to death, and understand that your Rhinos are paper mache next to it. Oh, and don't forget Necrons, with their bajillion gauss shots. They love watching people take handfuls of light AV with expensive slow cargo.

And again, even so, if I get a few lucky smoke saves, or whatever, it can take some nice heat off of my NDKs. This is why ideally I'd try 2, but one thing at a time.

Invalid argument. They'll point AP2 at your DK's, as it's the most efficient way to kill them. Their S6/7 spam is going to be pointed at your transports, Flyers and infantry (in that order).

I run either 2 or 3 units of 5 man purifers. All squads are identically equipped, with 2 psycannons in each unit, and a rhino for each. I spend turn one getting midfield and setting up a firebase, while my reserves come down on my opponents line. The only armies powerful enough to really stop me are tau and eldar, and even then only half the time when I don't get first turn. Late game, what's left of the purifiers push forward to clear my opponent's backfield with cleansing flame and assault, and my scoring units (usually inquisitorial henchman) move up to take objectives. The advantage this brings, is that it forces my opponent into some hard decisions, worry about the purifiers, or worry about the units I just dropped off on his doorstep. The best thing about purifiers is that they are dangerous to the last man. That lone model still knows cleansing flame and is still providing me with 2 warp charges to fuel psychic powers.

He doesn't have to worry about Purifiers till they're within 15" anyway, as that's the maximum move+'Cleansing Flame' range. So, if he disables your Rhinos turn 1 (which even if you get first turn is still entirely doable), you then spend at best 2 turns trudging towards his lines. He can basically ignore you for at least a turn and focus on killing the DK's and Terminators in his face.

And I'm also using psycannon purgators because my brain is clearly broken.

For what purpose? If you're really crazy enough to take psycannon on PA, take Purifiers instead. They are functionally the same, but you pay like 50pts extra for actual combat ability and 'Cleansing Flame', which is a fantastic deal. Oh, and Fearless. And Soul 420BlaizeIt on all melee attacks. And WC2 (plus combat squads for even more WC).

Sure, terminators are relentless but you can get 5 purifiers with 2 psycannons cheaper than 5 terminators with one. And I've found that one I'm mid-field, I have a decent enough position that I can put out a lot of dakka.

It's far more than that. Terminators have 2+ saves, which means unless you point half an army at them, or AP2, they don't usually die. On top of that, they do have 5+ invul, so you need a decent amount of AP2 to ensure they're dead, potshots risk failure. They're an efficient trading piece, and Turn 1 Run+Shoot with 'Rites' means they can be extremely aggressive Turn 1 onwards. Purifiers take at best 2 turns to be in 'Cleansing Flame' range, and they'll never fire more than 4 shots at 12" (you'll always be on the move), whereas Terminators always put out 4 shots at 24" with their squad psycannon and can even shoot+charge.

Purifiers should not be geared for fire support, Salvo makes that impossible. Focus on their actual strengths, which is they're Fearless Terminators with 'Cleansing Flame', but their cheaper price means you trade out for PA status. Which you leverage with a Raven or drop pod, as it can carry two combat squads of them, whereas Terminators don't need Ravens or pods because they can Deepstrike Turn 1.

[IndigoJack]

With psycannons, purifier threat range is 24" They don't have to move if you put them where there threat range is most of the board. And like I said, if I go first, I'll be in position by turn 2 to pour out the dakka. Saying that salvo makes fire support impossible simply isn't true. People ran heavy weapons prior to 6th edition, when moving meant you couldn't shoot. Sure mid-range makes it harder to utilize them, but it is by no means impossible. Psycannons are a great tool to use against high AV vehicles, especially when you consider our lack of melta. I've dropped knights in a single round of shooting, and, with the exception of ad lance, there hasn't been a game where my opponents have had a super heavy left by the end of turn 3. The key to using psycannons on PA units is not just playing the current turn, but playing a turn or two ahead as well.

 

Using purifiers with cleansing flame is a one-trick-pony. GKs are a low model count army, units need to have multiple roles to be efficient.

[Prot]

Right now I have 2 Stormravens. One in a box, the other I screwed up on and am attempting to 'fix' it or make it... not noticeable. lol

 

Anyway, I'm seriously thinking if I dump my Dark Angels or Ultramarines, I might go full boar and do Twin Ravens + 20 Purifiers. Wow.... that would be a rather permanent decision and stick me with GK for a longer committment.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

With psycannons, purifier threat range is 24" They don't have to move if you put them where there threat range is most of the board. And like I said, if I go first, I'll be in position by turn 2 to pour out the dakka.

 

Which is where exactly? Oh right, at best, the centre of the battlefield. Ie, the easiest place to be shot from any other position. They're on foot, and most other fire support units outrange you by at least 12", if not 24". Devastators and Havoks are ignored by their respective factions for a reason, and they are far cheaper and have longer range. 

Saying that salvo makes fire support impossible simply isn't true. People ran heavy weapons prior to 6th edition, when moving meant you couldn't shoot. 

 

Yeah, but that's because Riptides didn't exist and they can shoot things Turn 1 if positioned correctly in a good sniping position. That's what's possible when you have range 36" or 48" guns, you can dominate killzones from your DZ without ever needing to move. We don't get that luxury, because by design nothing in our army shoots further than 24" unless it's a vehicle. 

Sure mid-range makes it harder to utilize them, but it is by no means impossible. Psycannons are a great tool to use against high AV vehicles, especially when you consider our lack of melta. I've dropped knights in a single round of shooting, and, with the exception of ad lance, there hasn't been a game where my opponents have had a super heavy left by the end of turn 3. The key to using psycannons on PA units is not just playing the current turn, but playing a turn or two ahead as well.

 

You're assuming your PA unit will last that long. Need I remind you, 7th is an edition where TDA is considered to be 'okay' at keeping our infantry alive. PA might as well not exist for all the difference it makes against xenos. 

Using purifiers with cleansing flame is a one-trick-pony. GKs are a low model count army, units need to have multiple roles to be efficient. 

 

It's not their only role though. They're also one of our best melee units, Terminators only beat them on durability and flexibility at range. But fire support is something Purifiers do not do efficiently. They're better off moving, 'Cleansing Flame' and then charging something. Camping at 24" is a total waste of their combat statline and unique psychic power. 

[IndigoJack]

Which is where exactly? Oh right, at best, the centre of the battlefield. Ie, the easiest place to be shot from any other position. They're on foot, and most other fire support units outrange you by at least 12", if not 24". Devastators and Havoks are ignored by their respective factions for a reason, and they are far cheaper and have longer range.

I said mid-field several times, so I feel like I've demonstrated that I know where purifiers are most effective. Also, I mentioned that they're in rhinos, which makes getting to mid-field easy enough. My army also doesn't consist of a single unit of purifiers in said rhino, but a whole army of units for my opponent to shoot at. Will they shoot my purifiers? Maybe. But if they do, I have an answer for it. I play the game several turns in advance. I'm always trying to anticipate what my opponent will do and prepare a counter for it. Are there hard match-ups? Absolutely, but I rarely look at my opponents list and go, "oh well, I'm screwed."

 

Yeah, but that's because Riptides didn't exist and they can shoot things Turn 1 if positioned correctly in a good sniping position. That's what's possible when you have range 36" or 48" guns, you can dominate killzones from your DZ without ever needing to move. We don't get that luxury, because by design nothing in our army shoots further than 24" unless it's a vehicle.

Riptides may not have existed, but Eldar starcannon spam was pretty nasty back in 3rd, and the IG leafblower list of 5th edition got that name for a reason. There have always been some crazy OTT units in the game, and there probably always will be. Using riptides as an excuse to ignore viable tactics doesn't work when we have a hard counter to them in dreadknights. One of the reasons I take a gatling psilencer is just to psych my opponent into intercepting it. After it lands, I subtly remind them that it has a 22% chance to insta-gib one of their key units, and most of the time they take the trap and shoot at it, free the rest of my forces from a turn of shooting aided by markerlights and buffmander. If you want to win bad match-ups, you have to play smarter than your opponent, and force them into hard choices that either way, you come out ahead on.

 

You're assuming your PA unit will last that long. Need I remind you, 7th is an edition where TDA is considered to be 'okay' at keeping our infantry alive. PA might as well not exist for all the difference it makes against xenos.

Not in my experience. I generally have PA dudes left at the end of the game. I've beaten all kinds of armies using purifier spam, including tau (farsight enclave and codex:tau), necrons (including the old tesseract vault with the helstorm D weapon), eldar (iyanden wraith spam and serpent spam), invisible centurions, TWC spam, baneblades, shadowswords, stormlords, stormswords, imperial knights (including ad-lance), fearless invisible power blobs, and all other manners of nasty combos people come up with. Ironically, the last time I lost a game was against daemon summoning, and that was only because I forgot to play the mission because I was having so much fun killing daemons. As far as xenos go, necrons don't hit as hard as I do in overall shooting or assault, tau gunlines crumble to a good turn of assaults, and really, only eldar can stay far enough away from our guns while still maintaining solid shooting and enough mobility to avoid assaults. This does not make them unbeatable, just difficult. If you play smarter than your opponent, you will win more often than you lose.

 

It's not their only role though. They're also one of our best melee units, Terminators only beat them on durability and flexibility at range. But fire support is something Purifiers do not do efficiently. They're better off moving, 'Cleansing Flame' and then charging something. Camping at 24" is a total waste of their combat statline and unique psychic power.

Meh, shooting > assault. Their combat statline is fine, and if someone charges me I usually get to swing back and do some damage, but I much prefer the fearless USR and ability to double up on special weapons. They'll never fall back, and therefore, will never count as moving unless I move them myself. Cleansing flame is a deterrent to keep people away, and another way that I affect board control.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I said mid-field several times, so I feel like I've demonstrated that I know where purifiers are most effective. Also, I mentioned that they're in rhinos, which makes getting to mid-field easy enough. My army also doesn't consist of a single unit of purifiers in said rhino, but a whole army of units for my opponent to shoot at. Will they shoot my purifiers? Maybe. But if they do, I have an answer for it. I play the game several turns in advance. I'm always trying to anticipate what my opponent will do and prepare a counter for it. Are there hard match-ups? Absolutely, but I rarely look at my opponents list and go, "oh well, I'm screwed."

 

Do you never play xenos? I mean, even IG can take apart your handful of AV11 hulls fairly easily. 

Riptides may not have existed, but Eldar starcannon spam was pretty nasty back in 3rd, and the IG leafblower list of 5th edition got that name for a reason. There have always been some crazy OTT units in the game, and there probably always will be.

 

Yeah, well IG from 5th onwards has zero issue producing enough S6/7 spam to kill AV11 (even without HP they used to do it). Nowadays, it's actually easier for them to remove Rhinos. 

Using riptides as an excuse to ignore viable tactics doesn't work when we have a hard counter to them in dreadknights.

 

It's not just Riptides, and they're actually not the reason why you're screwed against Tau. Missileside Teams are. Dreadknights are only a hard counter if they survive to get into melee. Seeing as you spend most of your armies points on a handful of Rhinos and combat squad, you probably only have points for 2x DK's at best. Which isn't enough, Tau can kill one at range, then probably trade a 'Tide, then kill the other one. 

One of the reasons I take a gatling psilencer is just to psych my opponent into intercepting it. After it lands, I subtly remind them that it has a 22% chance to insta-gib one of their key units, and most of the time they take the trap and shoot at it, free the rest of my forces from a turn of shooting aided by markerlights and buffmander. If you want to win bad match-ups, you have to play smarter than your opponent, and force them into hard choices that either way, you come out ahead on.

 

Gatling psilencer has pathetically low odds of killing a Riptide. It's fair better at killing Crisis or if you can fire multiples, Broadsides. Also, having one on your DK' doesn't make him more of a target, he's already going to eat all their AP2 ASAP. Playing smarter doesn't help when you're dead. You can jam Terminators and DK's in their face Turn 1, but it's still a massive gamble. Seeing as that's not how your list works though, it's far easier for them to prioritise. Missilesides into your Rhinos, Crisis plasma/melta and Riptides into your DK's. They'd probably also spam their pulse rifles into your DK's as well, they wound on 5's and they can force a lot of saves with 30 shots per Fire Warrior squad potentially. 

Not in my experience. I generally have PA dudes left at the end of the game. I've beaten all kinds of armies using purifier spam, including tau (farsight enclave and codex:tau), necrons (including the old tesseract vault with the helstorm D weapon), eldar (iyanden wraith spam and serpent spam), invisible centurions, TWC spam, baneblades, shadowswords, stormlords, stormswords, imperial knights (including ad-lance), fearless invisible power blobs, and all other manners of nasty combos people come up with. Ironically, the last time I lost a game was against daemon summoning, and that was only because I forgot to play the mission because I was having so much fun killing daemons. As far as xenos go, necrons don't hit as hard as I do in overall shooting or assault, tau gunlines crumble to a good turn of assaults, and really, only eldar can stay far enough away from our guns while still maintaining solid shooting and enough mobility to avoid assaults. This does not make them unbeatable, just difficult. If you play smarter than your opponent, you will win more often than you lose.

 

Well then I have no idea what your meta game looks like, because it's still stuck in 4th from the sound of things. As in, no one takes AP3, or no one shoots effectively. How exactly would your Purifiers survive in melee with any of those premier assault units? Or survive getting grav-gunned to death? Incidentally, have you fought Necrons yet in their current Decurion incarnation? Because it's really easy for any of the top or even middlle-tier armies to remove both AV11 and 5-man PA squads from existence. They don't even need to power build most of the time, the base firepower has stepped up so much from 5th edition onwards. 

Meh, shooting > assault. Their combat statline is fine, and if someone charges me I usually get to swing back and do some damage, but I much prefer the fearless USR and ability to double up on special weapons. They'll never fall back, and therefore, will never count as moving unless I move them myself. Cleansing flame is a deterrent to keep people away, and another way that I affect board control. 

 

So? You'll spend 2 turns getting into range, in either of the enemy turns they can easily intercept you with their own longer-range firepower. 24" is also the standard band for most infantry weaponry, so at that point you're being shot by plenty of other units too, not just their fire support. 'Cleansing Flame' only deters melee units, everyone else can stay outside 15" pretty easily (ie your move+9" cast range) and just shoot you to death. You'll be moving and shooting most turns of the game, as you only have 12" range when you move. 

[IndigoJack]

Do you never play xenos? I mean, even IG can take apart your handful of AV11 hulls fairly easily.

Ok, serious question, do you answer posts while you read them, or read them all the way through then answer? Because I've answered this question below...

 

 

 

Yeah, well IG from 5th onwards has zero issue producing enough S6/7 spam to kill AV11 (even without HP they used to do it). Nowadays, it's actually easier for them to remove Rhinos.

 

 

This has not been my experience. However, most of the IG lists I see are either russ spam (which I've not really had a problem tabling) or tiggy-fueled power blobs with rad and psychotroke grenades (which focus more on board control than killing power).

 

 

 

It's not just Riptides, and they're actually not the reason why you're screwed against Tau. Missileside Teams are. Dreadknights are only a hard counter if they survive to get into melee. Seeing as you spend most of your armies points on a handful of Rhinos and combat squad, you probably only have points for 2x DK's at best. Which isn't enough, Tau can kill one at range, then probably trade a 'Tide, then kill the other one.

 

 

Missilesides are certainly annoying, but one unit in one army is not a reason to not take rhinos. I've found them to be helpful far more times than I've found them to be a hindrance. And like I've said several times before, if I go first, my purifiers are going to be where I need them by turn 2, and most of the time I'll have enough alive to do some return damage turn 2.

 

Also, 3 5man units of purifiers in rhinos comes in at 570 points. In no way is that most of my army. And I do only run 2 dreadknights. 3 (or more) is a lot of points, and honestly feels like a crutch. I prefer to win my games because I outplayed my opponent, not because I ran a gimmicky list.

 

 

 

Gatling psilencer has pathetically low odds of killing a Riptide. It's fair better at killing Crisis or if you can fire multiples, Broadsides. Also, having one on your DK' doesn't make him more of a target, he's already going to eat all their AP2 ASAP. Playing smarter doesn't help when you're dead. You can jam Terminators and DK's in their face Turn 1, but it's still a massive gamble. Seeing as that's not how your list works though, it's far easier for them to prioritise. Missilesides into your Rhinos, Crisis plasma/melta and Riptides into your DK's. They'd probably also spam their pulse rifles into your DK's as well, they wound on 5's and they can force a lot of saves with 30 shots per Fire Warrior squad potentially.

 

 

Do you consider 22% pathetically low? I mean, a meltagun has less of a chance of blowing up a rhino than a gatling psilencer has a chance of insta-gibbing a riptide. And who said I don't have terminators and dreadknights in my list? How can you give an honest critique on a unit that I use without knowing the whole list? This thread is about purifiers. I'm merely stating that I run them a certain way, and that way works for me. And for the record, if I'm dead, I didn't play smarter than my opponent.

 

Not in my experience. I generally have PA dudes left at the end of the game. I've beaten all kinds of armies using purifier spam, including tau (farsight enclave and codex:tau), necrons (including the old tesseract vault with the helstorm D weapon), eldar (iyanden wraith spam and serpent spam), invisible centurions, TWC spam, baneblades, shadowswords, stormlords, stormswords, imperial knights (including ad-lance), fearless invisible power blobs, and all other manners of nasty combos people come up with. Ironically, the last time I lost a game was against daemon summoning, and that was only because I forgot to play the mission because I was having so much fun killing daemons. As far as xenos go, necrons don't hit as hard as I do in overall shooting or assault, tau gunlines crumble to a good turn of assaults, and really, only eldar can stay far enough away from our guns while still maintaining solid shooting and enough mobility to avoid assaults. This does not make them unbeatable, just difficult. If you play smarter than your opponent, you will win more often than you lose.

 

 

 

Well then I have no idea what your meta game looks like, because it's still stuck in 4th from the sound of things. As in, no one takes AP3, or no one shoots effectively. How exactly would your Purifiers survive in melee with any of those premier assault units? Or survive getting grav-gunned to death? Incidentally, have you fought Necrons yet in their current Decurion incarnation? Because it's really easy for any of the top or even middlle-tier armies to remove both AV11 and 5-man PA squads from existence. They don't even need to power build most of the time, the base firepower has stepped up so much from 5th edition onwards.

 

 

I just gave you a list of armies I've defeated, most of which did not exist in 4th edition, so I don't get your reference. And my purifiers don't survive in melee against those units. Mostly because they rarely get into melee with them. Psycannons take a bit of the edge off, them dreadknights slam in do what they can (while purifiers cast cleansing flame outside of combat for good measure). *shrug* seems to work pretty well. The best thing to do against centurions, is just assault them. tarpit them as long as you can. Sure, you probably going to lose a unit of terminators or a dreadknight before you make it in, but you only need to hold them down for a couple of turns to really knock their efficiency off.

 

 

So? You'll spend 2 turns getting into range, in either of the enemy turns they can easily intercept you with their own longer-range firepower. 24" is also the standard band for most infantry weaponry, so at that point you're being shot by plenty of other units too, not just their fire support. 'Cleansing Flame' only deters melee units, everyone else can stay outside 15" pretty easily (ie your move+9" cast range) and just shoot you to death. You'll be moving and shooting most turns of the game, as you only have 12" range when you move.

2 turns? What? If I go first, I move 18". I'm where I need to be so I can start shooting turn 2. If I don't go first, well, it's rare that I lose 2 rhinos turn 1. I happens, but not often. If it does, they're usually out for the count. If I apply enough pressure with forward assault units, they may survive to do some shooting late game, but they usually end up camping on a well placed objective out of LoS and cleansing flame anyone that comes close.

[Deamon Wolf]

_{10 man squad 1 hammer 2 halberds 3 falchions 4 incinerators with either a Bro Chimp or Crow in either a LRC or SR}