Helping out a Wolf

[Frater Cornelius]

Hello there, I hope I do not disturb any wine tasting ceremony with my drunken Mjöd ramblings, but I had an epiphany of sorts. Namely, I was considering the possiblity of a BA/SW combined force.

Have a look:

 

 

Company of the Great Wolf

 

Wolf Lord - Thunderwolf, Runic Armour, Stormshield, Krakenbone Sword (basically S6 AP2 at I5), Fellclaw's Teeth (reroll to hit in melee)

 

Iron Priest - Thunderwolf, 4 Cyber Wolves

Iron Priest - Thunderwolf, 4 Cyber Wolves

 

5 TWC - 1 SS, 1 Power Fist

1 TWC Pack Leader - 1 SS, Melta Bomb

 

Sicaran Battle Tank - HB Sponsons

 

Combined Arms Detachment

 

Sanguinary Priest - Bike

 

Furioso Dreadnought - Frag Launcher, Heavy Flamer, Magna Grapple

+ Drop Pod

 

10 Tacticals - Melta, Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

+ Drop Pod

10 Tacticals - Melta, Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

+ Drop Pod

 

Sicaran Battle Tank - HB Sponsons

 

1850pts

 

If Forge World is not an option, drop the two Sicarans and add three Fast Predators with AC/HB.

If BA must be played as an allied Detachment, add one Fast Predator and two regular ones on the SW side with the same loadout. Or a single Sicaran and two Predators.

 

 

 

I think this can be a pretty flexible combination. SG, TWC, Lord and IP join together in the beginning to benefit from FnP. They will usually move together and do multiple assaults, but every single element can be detached to go after its own target.

Fragioso makes for an amazing distraction and alpha strike. AV13 and three Templates are awesome.

The Tacticals are flexible due to combat squad and efficient weapons. When Obj.Sec. does not matter, you can run it as BSF and threaten assault with Dread and Tacs.

The Predators are cheap and durable objective holders. With their AV13 they can resist S6/7 spam very well and are fast enough to get where they are needed, all while piling wounds on problem units like Wraiths or other TWC. Sicarans can be used more offensively and act as AA as well, but follow the same thought.

The Predators are also cheap enough to body block alpha strikes or tank shock to prepare a unit for a Fragioso Flame.

 

Do you think this idea holds water?

 

Cheers for any input ;)

[Charlo]

Been wanting to do something like this myself really! Company of the great wolf makes a killer core to any force in my opinion. Just need a cool count as for TWC (currently have bulls or charriots in my head...)

I will never understand mixing a heavy flamer and melta gun though but that's just me... Some people swear by it but if you are using your 2 melta shots to pop a battle tank then your bolters and such are wasted. But I suppose the assault nature of the weapon ensures maximum pre-charge damage? I'm just thinking out loud here. I suppose Combat Squads helps out too.

Looks really solid though! Taking the best of both worlds for sure

[BadDice0809]

The magic of combat squading means you can pop that transport then double tap/ roast to your hearts content. I would just add inferno pistols or something to try to make sure that tank you drop next to dies. That gets expensive though.

[sockwithaticket]

Wouldn't you need a chaplain (or Astorath) as a BA HQ to gain access to the Sicaran given that  it's a relic of the armoury?

[Deschenus Maximus]

I think BA and SW do work well together, but this particular combo I'm not so sure about.

[Blood & Thunder]

Wouldn't you need a chaplain (or Astorath) as a BA HQ to gain access to the Sicaran given that it's a relic of the armoury?

I believe he is taking one from sw and one from ba.

[Frater Cornelius]

Wouldn't you need a chaplain (or Astorath) as a BA HQ to gain access to the Sicaran given that it's a relic of the armoury?

Only if I take more then 1 Sicaran or if BA are allies. By placing one Sicaran each into the detachments, I can theoretically avoid it. If anyone disagrees, I still have the Pred option to fall back to.

 

I think BA and SW do work well together, but this particular combo I'm not so sure about.

What about this combo made you uncertain? Every lil' bit helps ;)

[Jolemai]

Only the Detachment with your Warlord gets the freebie. Anything else is considered a secondary Detachment and thus, has to pay the relic tax.

[Deschenus Maximus]

What about this combo made you uncertain? Every lil' bit helps

The Tacticals, mostly. ObSec is a good rule but isn't too hot unless you include a crapload of Troops.

[Frater Cornelius]

I think people really underestimate Tacs. They are still T4 3+ bodies with decent regular weapons and good specials and Krak Grenades. Ignore them and they will make you pay for it.

If CAD turns out to be inefficient, I will swap to BSF to give me a small edge in melee.

 

Only the Detachment with your Warlord gets the freebie. Anything else is considered a secondary Detachment and thus, has to pay the relic tax.

In that case I will need to call up FW and ask who the new Keeper of Relics for BA is. In the worst case scenario I can play three Preds or two Preds and one Sic.

[Jolemai]

It's a Chaplain (which also includes Astorath). See the BA FAQ thread below.

[Jolemai]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305161-ba-centric-faq-compilation/?p=3988247

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, thanks very much. Three Fast Predators it is until I can find a way to accomodate a Rune Priest in there as he is the KoR for SW.

 

Any more thoughts on the list/strategy in general?

[Deschenus Maximus]

I think people really underestimate Tacs. They are still T4 3+ bodies with decent regular weapons and good specials and Krak Grenades. Ignore them and they will make you pay for it.

If CAD turns out to be inefficient, I will swap to BSF to give me a small edge in melee.

 

 

I don't think Tacs are bad either, but in a BSF, I'd rather go with Scouts.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

 

I think people really underestimate Tacs. They are still T4 3+ bodies with decent regular weapons and good specials and Krak Grenades. Ignore them and they will make you pay for it.

If CAD turns out to be inefficient, I will swap to BSF to give me a small edge in melee.

 

I don't think Tacs are bad either, but in a BSF, I'd rather go with Scouts.

How so?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Because Troops don't have any particular advantages in a BSF, so I aim to minimise the amount I have to take.

[Frater Cornelius]

That's all fine and dandy, but does not really help me with fine-tuning this one though ;)

[Deschenus Maximus]

Well, how attached are you to the units as they stand?

[Frater Cornelius]

You may suggest anything. Whether I follow the advice is another question entirely ;)

[Deschenus Maximus]

Well, here's what I'm thinking:

-First, the Bangles can provide some Fast autolas preds to provide some much needed fire support to your army (also, you SW Sicaran should have las sponsons rather than HB).

-Second, grav bikes will help put a dent in the opponent's big nasties that could prove challenging to your T-Wolves.

 

Beyond that, some MSU DC could capitalise on your already strong CC punch.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, here's what I'm thinking:

-First, the Bangles can provide some Fast autolas preds to provide some much needed fire support to your army (also, you SW Sicaran should have las sponsons rather than HB).

-Second, grav bikes will help put a dent in the opponent's big nasties that could prove challenging to your T-Wolves.

Beyond that, some MSU DC could capitalise on your already strong CC punch.

Hm, AutoLas sounds like a very reasonable idea. It will increase cost of the Preds to 125pts, which means I can only effectively run 2 of those, unless I compromise the core of the list. However, for the spare points I can stick in at least 1 unit of MSU Grav bikes, aiming for two units I guess.

This was a good advice.

The advice I did not like was the DC. No offensive to any BA, but I find them inferior to TWC on nearly every level (granted, pretty much every single melee unit is). What TWC really needs is shooty support to clear roadblocks. Tacs do just fine with that. If I overextend on CC, I will lack T1 punch and will be susceptible to roadblocks.

Working on the next incarnation

[Deschenus Maximus]

I do sort of agree with you on the DC. I guess I'm just struggling more to find a reason to use BA over SM to support a TWC list than I expected.

[Frater Cornelius]

BA does TWC support better than SM because they can provide FnP without having to take a Command Squad and thus being able to take TWC with SS. SM is good if you want to spam Iron Priests attached to the CS, which is helluva lot of points. Personally, I'd go BA any day due to Furioso, fast Preds and SGP.

 

Anyway, here is the List MkII:

 

Wolf Lord - Thunderwolf, Runic Armour, Stormshield, Krakenbone Sword

Iron Priest - Thunderwolf, 3 Cyber Wolves
Iron Priest - Thunderwolf, 3 Cyber Wolves

4 TWC - 1 SS, 1 Power Fist
1 TWC Pack Leader - 1 SS

Sanguinary Priest - Jump Pack

Furioso Dreadnought - Frag Launcher, Heavy Flamer, Magna Grapple
+ Drop Pod

10 Tacticals - Melta, Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer
+ Drop Pod
10 Tacticals - Melta, Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer
+ Drop Pod

 

5 Bikes - 2 Grav Guns, 1 Combi-Grav

Predator - Overcharged Engines, AC, LC Sponsons

Predator - Overcharged Engines, AC, LC Sponsons

1830pts

 

 

 

Now the power is more evenly spread. A few less points in the TWC unit and a few more outside with more diverse firepower. I think the list benefited from it as a whole. I tried and failed to incorporate two units of bikes. They were too small and came at the cost of too many units. Instead I beefed up the one unit so it can resist some firepower. They will be the ones making the first dent, and possibly killing, key targets like Canoptek Harvest Spyders or NDK.

I still have 20pts to spend. It can be Valor's Edge for the SGP, which would be worth it in a BSF but questionable outside. Other options are Melta Bombs on Bike, Tacs and TWC pack leaders. Maybe another Dog and Melta Bomb for TWC. Either way, most are small upgrades.

 

That is the new core. Thoughts?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Is the Sang Priest really that big a deal? FnP is nice, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure it's worth it over WS bikes and stuff.

[Frater Cornelius]

Is the Sang Priest really that big a deal? FnP is nice, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure it's worth it over WS bikes and stuff.

It is a bigger deal than you realize. Not because the SP is that great, but because you get to take TWC instead of the WS CS. If you introduce both units into a melee fight, I know who I will bet my money on. It simply allows more balances builds as opposed to going full on Death Star, too. You are not comparing SP to WS here. You are comparing WS to TWC with FnP.