Two guard books?

[Wildfire]

Please help a player that's been out of 40k for a few years.  What exactly is the difference between Astra Militarium and Militarum Tempustus?  Wikipedia just links to it's Imperial Guard page, and the info on GW's page doesn't explain much.

[scatmandoo]

Astra Militarum is the new IG codex.

 

Militarum Tempestus is the Stormtrooper specific codex

[Wildfire]

Is there a lot of similarity between the two?  What are the differences?

[Bionicman]

See in detail for yourself:

 

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Imperial_Guard

 

Militarum Tempestus is a small supplement, with some special orders and rules but nothing too fancy or what you can't get by IG

[march10k]

Well...every model that you can field using the stormtrooper codex can also be fielded using the guard codex...the difference is rules, and the stormtrooper codex is ridiculously limited in access to models:

HQ consists of stormtrooper command squads and commissars/commissar lords

Fast attack consists of valkyries and taurox primes

Troops consist of stormtrooper squads

Taurox primes can be taken as dedicated transports for any squad

...and that's it.

The codex has different (Better? depends on your needs...I need four twinlinked BS4 plasma guns in my command squad, so yeah, better) orders (stormtroopers taken in the guard codex use guard orders, not stormtrooper orders) and warlord traits

There are two formations with a boatload of special rules, one consisting of precisely four valks and one consisting of precisely four taurox primes. In each case, you also have to take precisely three stormtrooper squads, one stormtrooper command squad, and one commissar or commissar lord.

The codex is a bit difficult because of its limitations. Basically, you have no long range shooting and your only access to horde control is rocket pods on valkyries. You will kill pretty much anything you target with your stormtroopers, but your model count is going to be kind of terminator-like, but with carapace armor and no melee capability. The formations look amazing on first glance, but when you realize that the transports are not dedicated transports, the stormtrooper squads don't have "objective secured," and the formation, in spite of having enough troops choices and HQ choices to satisfy the 1+2 minimum TWICE, is not a combined arms detachment, yet eats up a ton of points...you're really in a bind.

Screw it, I'm building an air assault formation anyway. It's too cool not to...I'm halfway finished with the fourth required valkyrie, and have enough stormtroopers done to fill the minimum (five more hellgunners to make the max of 36 infantry in the formation). So how am I going to deal with the serious drawbacks? Well, in the short term, my obligatory combined arms detachment will have to come from another codex, and will have to cost under 900 points (not a tough hurdle), preferably no more than 650 (slightly tighter). I'm thinking Pask with a wingman and two chimeraloads of veterans would be pretty fluffy and would live long enough for the (air) cavalry to arrive, but a company command squad might actually work better (mechanized, of course) for the purpose of fielding an officer of the fleet, who can help get my stormtrooper detachment on the table on turn two. In the longer term, I'll go stormtrooper-pure with two squads and a cheap HQ huddled in and behind a bunker with two battle cannons on top. That serves the dual purposes of providing the HQ and troops to satisfy combined arms detachment requirements, long range AP3 pieplates, and survivability for the 1/3 of my list that starts the game on the table.

/edit/ Yes, I will be playing a little Wagner and waxing poetic about the smell of napalm in the morning when my birds come out of reserves

[Father Mehman]

...five more hellgunners to make the max of 36 infantry in the formation...

...

/edit/ Yes, I will be playing a little Wagner and waxing poetic about the smell of napalm in the morning when my birds come out of reserves

We're bringing the name back, March! No more "Hotshot" for us !

As to the second point: you must provide loudspeakers and set them to "11" when this happens! Why "11"? Because it's one louder !

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Good summary march10k.

 

Post pics of your airborne formation when it's done. I love the idea of it, but building and painting that many Valkyries does not fill be with warm fuzzies.

[WarriorFish]

Good answers here, all I can add is that which codex you use just decides with flavour of awesome you're going to use ;)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I like the Tempestus codex because of the massive quantity of hellguns. I have taken to running my MT's in squads of 5-8 guys. That gives you a quantity of units, that can take down a bunch of things easily. Command Squads can take 3 special weapons, 4 if you really want to be dirty, and everyone deepstrikes. If I'm not mistaken you can run them in a combined arms detachment from their mini-codex, since they have the required FOC slots filled. It is an elite army, with low model count, and they can be a glass cannon, but they can do very well as the bulk of your force. I'm used to Space Marine unit costs, so this is actually welcome because of the tactical flexibility you get. 

 

Now, the Tempestus need help, so I ally in some regular Astra Militarum, for the things that Tempestus are lacking, like air-defense, and Artillery, so my 1850 list includes a vendetta to cover the Valkyrie and a Knight to lay down some long-ranged fire support, and add a distraction. 

 

I want to add a second Vendetta and an armored column, because what's a guard army without tanks. The other thing is that Tempestus still get access to baneblade variants, and I plan on adding a superheavy transport (Stormlord, Doomhammer, or Banehammer), to my tempestus, while adding the Superheavy tank to my actual Armored Guard unit. 

 

In short, the Militarum Tempestus book is good for using just stormtroopers as allies to a different force, or as the main infantry component to ally around, they need allied to address their obvious shortcomings.

 

The Astra Militarum book is what you'll want to use for building a rounded and tactically flexible Guard army.

[Kontakt]

I would point out that the Scion formations allow for the squads to be more than 5 troopers, so you aren't quite at terminator numbers if you don't want to be. 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Scion squads can go up to 10 men total, in the MT book and the AM book. 

[march10k]

Well....the formation caps you at 36 infantry models...Deathwing terminators are 44 points per model, allowing roughly 27 termies (call it 25 plus belial?) for the cost of a maxed out air assault formation...it's not an incorrect comparison!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Ok, I see where you're going with that. I wasn't understanding the comparison.

[Kontakt]

Well....the formation caps you at 36 infantry models...Deathwing terminators are 44 points per model, allowing roughly 27 termies (call it 25 plus belial?) for the cost of a maxed out air assault formation...it's not an incorrect comparison!

Air assault is very expensive, but gets to assault at the same time. I would consider its effect to be crippling on the enemy. The only real problem is that if you fail to bring them in on turn 2, (even with their reroll) then you have most definately lost the game.

Deathwing does not bring valkyries, which deal so well with blob enemies.

 

Edit: It's a good comparison, but deathwing won't be able to handle massed enemies, much like scions could not without the support their air formation comes with. Deathwing does have more survivability, though.

[march10k]

Deathwing does not bring valkyries, which deal so well with blob enemies. The only real problem is that if you fail to bring them in on turn 2, (even with their reroll) then you have most definately lost the game.

 

 

 

That's a good point...maybe better bring an IG CCS with an OOF to give you a reroll on 2+?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

Deathwing does not bring valkyries, which deal so well with blob enemies. The only real problem is that if you fail to bring them in on turn 2, (even with their reroll) then you have most definately lost the game.

 

 

 

That's a good point...maybe better bring an IG CCS with an OOF to give you a reroll on 2+?

 

 

Probably very worth the investment if running the airborne formation. You need something on the ground anyway while waiting for the formation to arrive lest you auto-lose because of having no models deployed.

[Jacinda]

 

The only real problem is that if you fail to bring them in on turn 2, (even with their reroll) then you have most definately lost the game.

 

 

I thought it was changed in 7th.  Didn't they drop the "after the first" part of the sudden death rule?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Alas, no. I just checked my iBooks version which is up-to-date, and on p. 592 under the heading "SUDDEN DEATH VICTORY" it states "if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield his opponent automatically wins." (my emphasis)

[Jacinda]

So if you do not have some way of coming in on the first turn, don't reserve the whole army ;)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Thing is it says any game turn, as opposed to a player turn.