Gresiloth Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Hi, sorry if this is the wrong section but could someone clear this up for me. The servo-harness entry in the Space Marine codex says it gives the bearer an 'additional' servo-arm. This makes sense if you upgrade a techmarine's servo-arm, and seems to mean you'd get +1 attack for having two specialist weapons. But what about a Master of the Forge who comes with a servo-harness as standard. Are we to assume he has two servo-arms, and thus +1 attack to the 2 on his profile? Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Don't assume unless it is mentioned is the general rule as far as I understand it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4002843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresiloth Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 True, but it's the word 'additional' that has thrown me as that suggests it supplements an existing servo-arm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4002853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Sorry, I misread your question, yes I would take it to mean 2 servos, I thought you were saying the +1 attack might already be included in the characteristics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4002856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine God Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 It is not included as stat, because he can always choose to get rid of the servo harness for a Conversion Beamer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4002938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresiloth Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 So is the conclusion that Masters of the Forge have 3 attacks if they keep the harness? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipkin Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Yes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 No He has one base attack and then that gives him 2 attacks on the charge The servo harness is part of but separate from his base attacks A servo arm would give him one str 8 int 1 attack at the end with thunder hammers and power fist A servo harness would do this twice because of the two arms But does not give the two unwieldy weapon combo you are talking about like two power fist would just two extra str 8 int 1 attacks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Librarian Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 No He has one base attack and then that gives him 2 attacks on the charge The servo harness is part of but separate from his base attacks A servo arm would give him one str 8 int 1 attack at the end with thunder hammers and power fist A servo harness would do this twice because of the two arms But does not give the two unwieldy weapon combo you are talking about like two power fist would just two extra str 8 int 1 attacks That sounds like 5th Edition Codex to me. It is not like this anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'm so old I remember back in my day we could have a techmarine hq choice with scion of Mars and got 6 attacks on the charge And we had to walk uphill both ways to use him too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Shine Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 By strict RAW the servo-harness on a Master of the Forge would not grant an additional servo-arm attack because the Master of the Forge is not stated as being equipped with a servo-arm to start with, but I agree it's pretty clearly implicit he should have two servo-arms, including the servo-harness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 By strict RAW the servo-harness on a Master of the Forge would not grant an additional servo-arm attack because the Master of the Forge is not stated as being equipped with a servo-arm to start with, but I agree it's pretty clearly implicit he should have two servo-arms, including the servo-harness. Well, considering it is only the extra servo arm that grants a +1 attack, and he definitely has the extra one by raw, he might get it anyway? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Shine Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Well, considering it is only the extra servo arm that grants a +1 attack, and he definitely has the extra one by raw, he might get it anyway? Servo-arms have the Specialist Weapon rule, which requires two weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule to gain the extra attack. "An extra" servo-arm isn't good enough by RAW. It's interesting to note however that Codex: Blood Angels does not have this issue: "A servo-harness gives the bearer two servo-arms, a plasma cutter and a flamer. In the Shooting phase, the model can fire both harness-mounted weapons, or one harness-mounted weapon and another weapon." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Well, considering it is only the extra servo arm that grants a +1 attack, and he definitely has the extra one by raw, he might get it anyway? Servo-arms have the Specialist Weapon rule, which requires two weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule to gain the extra attack. "An extra" servo-arm isn't good enough by RAW. It's interesting to note however that Codex: Blood Angels does not have this issue: "A servo-harness gives the bearer two servo-arms, a plasma cutter and a flamer. In the Shooting phase, the model can fire both harness-mounted weapons, or one harness-mounted weapon and another weapon." Dang, I was thinking extra not 2 was the wording used for extra attacks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresiloth Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 That's interesting, it sounds like the Blood Angels codex is a better worded version of what is intended in the Space Marine codex. I think the entry in the SM book is clearly written with a bog-standard techmarine in mind, as they start with a servo-arm. However, you could also argue that the techmarine entry starts with 'servo-arm' in his wargear, whereas the Master of the Forge only has 'servo-harness' listed, so there's no original servo-arm to add an 'extra' to. So by the letter of things on p166 he wouldn't get an extra attack, but the wording in Blood Angels clearly shows that he should. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4003995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 In all seriousness, this is a case of bad writing, nothing more. The model listed as "Master of the Forge with Servo-harness" (as displayed on page 132) has 2 Servo-arms. Each is a specialist weapon, so if you attack with one you'll get +1 Attack for 2 Specialist Weapons. Added to the MotF base 2 Attacks means 3 Attacks normally and 4 on the Charge. The altered wording in the Blood Angel book is evidence of what the games designers always intended the rules for the servo-harness to be. They just worded it badly in the Space Marine codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305844-quick-servo-harness-question/#findComment-4004086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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