Zeratul29 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 So with the new AdMech codex out, how do you think it can benefit(or possibly hinder) GK? Do you think they will be a good ally for us? Personally I think they have something to offer us with the amount of Haywire and AA they can bring. Since we struggle with both of those..... Your thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Haywire, AA, cheap objective holders, reasonably priced ap1/2 weapons... Pretty much covers all our gaps, and vice versa. Except they don't have any transports. Wasn't there a topic on this already btw? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4002881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 I had checked for one but didn't see it. Maybe I missed it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4002891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Grey Knights have their own pet Mechanicum Forge World orbiting Titan, which is most likely the home of the Psi-Titan Legion. Titan Legions are supported by Skitarii and Knight Households. Probability approaches 100% that the GK can call on the AdMech for support. Fluff aside, the new Skitarii bring a lot of nice anti-vehicle to augment our already great anti-infantry. And we bring them the CC they need. Not a bad match up. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4002951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Now we only need to get a transport for them to get where they need to be for their haywire guns... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4002974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305124-skitarii-with-grey-knights/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Grey Knights have their own pet Mechanicum Forge World orbiting Titan, which is most likely the home of the Psi-Titan Legion. Titan Legions are supported by Skitarii and Knight Households. Probability approaches 100% that the GK can call on the AdMech for support. Where do I find the part about Daimos housing Psi-Titan legions? Now we only need to get a transport for them to get where they need to be for their haywire guns... If you don't field interceptors and maybe a Raven even with the NSF detachments you can always take a Rhino or two as FA choice to transport your Skitarii. Another option would be to keep them behind a Aegis defence line to operate the vox relay. After that a Onager could take the Raven role of anti-air and free about a hundred points to spend on something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 The Psi-Titan Legion is based out of an unknown location in the Sol system. The Grey Knights are an all Psyker Chapter of Space Marines based out of the hidden moon of Titan. The Mechanicus of Mars gifted the Sigilite the moon of Demos, which house a filling functioning Forge, to which the Digilite had are is relocated to Titan. 2+2=4 SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 As far as I remember Deimos caters exclusivly to the GKs and I don't recall any mention of a Psi-Titan ever fighting on the GKs side apart from the fact that the GK fleet and battle doctrine don't even support the use of Titans. There is no actual information linking the Psi-Titans to Deimos except for them beeing psychic and the part where it says that the Divisio Telepathica keeps them "near the heart of the Imperium". That doesn't even necessarily mean they are located in the solar system. So instead of 2+2=4 it sounds more like wishful thinking + namesharing. I'd hoped you could provide some new information as I too am interested in the lore of the Divisio Telepathica and their Titan Legion but from what I could unearth even the "newest" tidbits are twelve years old (Codex Eye of Terror) and probably not considered canon anymore like so many things from that book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 Wait we have FA rhinos???? Awesome! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I wanna like them. I really do. The models are gorgeous. But lets be realistic here. Given Marines struggle to stay alive on the ground in most matchups, how do we expect T3 4+ save to stand up? Their FNP is irrelevant once something S6 or higher hits them. They're not overpriced thankfully, but I just wonder how many turns you'll actually get out of those awesome guns. 2 probably. One thing I am genuinely excited about is taking a 10-man squad of Rangers with 3x plasma calivers, and shoving them in a Raven. That's a nasty amount of AP2 on the cheap, enough to scare MC's and most infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 2 wounds models... oh.. yes please! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 T3 though. So again, once you point S6+ at them, they melt anyway. Honestly, they should've just given them T5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Gotta love the RD specific houserule where every single unit has a survivability-dependent turn counter on it, annihilating them after the given amount of turns without paying any consideration to things like... I dunno... the enemies codex, their army composition, your army composition, who has the first turn, battlefield terrain, target priority, the mission and other unimportant stuff :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 The heavy walkers and basic infantry suit GK very well, and their troops can ride in our cheap Rhinos. Definitely worth allying them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Gotta love the RD specific houserule where every single unit has a survivability-dependent turn counter on it, annihilating them after the given amount of turns without paying any consideration to things like... I dunno... the enemies codex, their army composition, your army composition, who has the first turn, battlefield terrain, target priority, the mission and other unimportant stuff It's almost like I play 40k, and I watch these things actually happen. All the time. Jks, I just make it up to annoy you all. Cos I'm strange like that. The heavy walkers and basic infantry suit GK very well, and their troops can ride in our cheap Rhinos. Definitely worth allying them! I dunno. I like plasma caliver spam, but I'm really not keen on Rhinos. At least we don't pay a squad tax for them. The walkers are interesting. If you can get 'Shrouding' from 'Telepathy, you could have some funny shenanigans with them running around in 3+ cover (provided you can keep the Librarian in range..maybe with Draigo 'Gating'?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4003988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 It's almost like I play 40k, and I watch these things actually happen. All the time. Yes - almost. I foresee two small Ranger Squads camping an Aegis defnese line and 1+ Onager kitet out for whatever army-weakness should be compensated. Most likely Arc-Rifles for haywire goodness and the skyfire Onager version. That allied detachment will be very popular in a lot of builds, not only GK armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 As far as I remember Deimos caters exclusivly to the GKs and I don't recall any mention of a Psi-Titan ever fighting on the GKs side apart from the fact that the GK fleet and battle doctrine don't even support the use of Titans. There is no actual information linking the Psi-Titans to Deimos except for them beeing psychic and the part where it says that the Divisio Telepathica keeps them "near the heart of the Imperium". That doesn't even necessarily mean they are located in the solar system. So instead of 2+2=4 it sounds more like wishful thinking + namesharing. I'd hoped you could provide some new information as I too am interested in the lore of the Divisio Telepathica and their Titan Legion but from what I could unearth even the "newest" tidbits are twelve years old (Codex Eye of Terror) and probably not considered canon anymore like so many things from that book. Some people say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one! SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 3 Onegar walkerd with Neutron Lasers, one squad of Rangers with Arc rifled, one squad of vanguard with the plasma guns... They would fit quite nicely in a gk force :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 In a 3 Onager unit I would strongly advise for putting a twin linked heavy phosphor blaster into the mix. The -1 cover is very nice for the neutron lasers and rerolling the charge distance is pretty neat for a very cc proficient army without fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Yes - almost. I foresee two small Ranger Squads camping an Aegis defnese line and 1+ Onager kitet out for whatever army-weakness should be compensated. Most likely Arc-Rifles for haywire goodness and the skyfire Onager version. That allied detachment will be very popular in a lot of builds, not only GK armies. *it was sarcasm* Your main problem with camping an Aegis Line is that any army with ways to Ignore Cover kills them very easily. They're not even in PA, so you don't even need a Heldrake or something of that caliber. I do like the crawlers, especially their 'camp together for better invul save' ability. I'll have to test out the weapon options though, the Skyfire is very nice though. Especially with Doctrina able to boost that to BS5 haha. Does anyone now how much Onagers cost yet? Some people say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one! In fairness, I'll say its plausible. But I always though the Psi-Titans were either on Mars, Luna or Terra. In a 3 Onager unit I would strongly advise for putting a twin linked heavy phosphor blaster into the mix. The -1 cover is very nice for the neutron lasers and rerolling the charge distance is pretty neat for a very cc proficient army without fleet. Does the -1 apply to friendly shooting as well, or just the Onager's own guns? That would be great for us, we wouldn't be relying so much on getting 'Perfect Timing' to deal with Jinking or Shrouded units at range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Your main problem with camping an Aegis Line is that any army with ways to Ignore Cover kills them very easily. They're not even in PA, so you don't even need a Heldrake or something of that caliber. That argument can be apllied to so many units that all get played and offer good value. The magic word is "point costs". As long as they are costed accordingly the fact that they can be killed by ignores cover weapons is just that - a fact in a vacuum. It would be as stupid of me to always assume that the enemy every single most efficient weapon against my army and can always apply the firepower whereever he needs it as it would be equally stupid if I would always assume that the opponent would never have those.It doesn't even have to be a Aegis. I'm willing to bet that as long you can keep that guys out of the open they will do a good job and yes, that includes the possibility of them dying cuz they are beeing prioritized. I do like the crawlers, especially their 'camp together for better invul save' ability. I'll have to test out the weapon options though, the Skyfire is very nice though. Especially with Doctrina able to boost that to BS5 haha. Does anyone now how much Onagers cost yet? The base cost is a GK techmarine and comes with the Eradication Beamer. THe most expensive weapon upgrade is the Icarus-Array and costs an extra Rhino. Does the -1 apply to friendly shooting as well, or just the Onager's own guns? That would be great for us, we wouldn't be relying so much on getting 'Perfect Timing' to deal with Jinking or Shrouded units at range. The actual cover of the unit is reduced by one until the end of the phase. So yeah, every unit that shoots them profits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 That argument can be apllied to so many units that all get played and offer good value. The magic word is "point costs". As long as they are costed accordingly the fact that they can be killed by ignores cover weapons is just that - a fact in a vacuum. It would be as stupid of me to always assume that the enemy every single most efficient weapon against my army and can always apply the firepower whereever he needs it as it would be equally stupid if I would always assume that the opponent would never have those. Yes exactly. And I think Skitarii are certainly not overpriced for what they do (they're a million times better than Scions, or Sisters etc). But durability is still an issue, even if a unit is cheap. It's why Henchmen, despite being one of the most undercosted units in the game (considering the firepower they can put out, and their utility with Psykers etc), aren't a factor in the meta game because basic anti-infantry melts them with ease. It doesn't even have to be a Aegis. I'm willing to bet that as long you can keep that guys out of the open they will do a good job and yes, that includes the possibility of them dying cuz they are beeing prioritized. They probably will perform quite well, I have problem with their guns. But bolters remove them pretty easily, and honestly S4 is like the least of infantry's problems these days. AP4 isn't exaclty uncommon either. We delete Skitarii and Scions pretty easily with incinerators, and we're not even their biggest problem matchup-wise. The base cost is a GK techmarine and comes with the Eradication Beamer. THe most expensive weapon upgrade is the Icarus-Array and costs an extra Rhino. And its Dreadnought statline yeah (barring WS, Initaitive and other stuff that doesn't matter)? Damn, I'm actually keen now. I'm getting three :) The actual cover of the unit is reduced by one until the end of the phase. So yeah, every unit that shoots them profits. Is it stackable, like old school markerlight counters? Even if its not, that's awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I'm starting to think these guys are going to be the next big thing.... just a hunch, but from what I'm reading they look darn good. I was at the local GW store this week, and I had to try something out so I was there for a long time. I could not believe the number of people coming in off the street and 'blindly' buying Skitarii boxes... wow. I mean literally the number of boxes I saw people buying (plus the 'skitarii paint') was staggering. They really are expensive per points, but if they rules turn out to be as good as everyone is speculating, then I don't even know if they need GK. Perhaps GK players will simply convert to pure Admech? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Nah, it's too early days for that. I think they're selling well for the moment thanks to a combo of nice models and 'omg Ad Mech models at last!'. Don't get me wrong, they're far from bad, but I don't think they're a meta breaker, and they're certainly more of an 'ally' force in the vein of Stormtroopers and Quins than a standalone powerhouse. That may well change in time as further Ad Mech dexes come out and the forces of the Omnissiah mature into a full faction. But as it stands the Iron Striders are too flimsy (and the Dragoons don't pack enough of a punch thanks to a lack of AP), as are the Sicarians (T3 really hurts on this score), while the Vanguard are too short ranged to reliably contribute without a transport. Really the Onagers and Rangers are the pick of the dex, and even the Rangers suffer from some issues with the special weapons (the calliver should not be twice the cost of a plasma gun, the arequbus also probably isn't worth its cost). Realistically, allying with GKs (or any Marine for that matter) offers some solid advantages, most notably in durability (and some mobility). GKs can provide a solid backbone of heavy infantry/Dreadknights for the Skitarri to support. Until the Ad Mech get a bit more 'meat' in their range, I'd be surprised to seem them fielded solo with any great frequency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305847-how-does-the-new-admech-affect-gk/#findComment-4004849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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