How does the new Admech affect GK?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm starting to think these guys are going to be the next big thing.... just a hunch, but from what I'm reading they look darn good.

 

I was at the local GW store this week, and I had to try something out so I was there for a long time. I could not believe the number of people coming in off the street and 'blindly' buying Skitarii boxes... wow. I mean literally the number of boxes I saw people buying (plus the 'skitarii paint') was staggering. 

 

They really are expensive per points, but if they rules turn out to be as good as everyone is speculating, then I don't even know if they need GK. Perhaps GK players will simply convert to pure Admech?

 

laughingnecrons.jpeg

 

Skitarii are good, but they're an Ally codex with even less options than us. They're basically Scions but not trash, unlike Scions. I think they'll fit into the Imperial mixture of armies, but by themselves they have serious issues that have to be plugged with Allies. 

Nah, it's too early days for that. I think they're selling well for the moment thanks to a combo of nice models and 'omg Ad Mech models at last!'. Don't get me wrong, they're far from bad, but I don't think they're a meta breaker, and they're certainly more of an 'ally' force in the vein of Stormtroopers and Quins than a standalone powerhouse. That may well change in time as further Ad Mech dexes come out and the forces of the Omnissiah mature into a full faction. But as it stands the Iron Striders are too flimsy (and the Dragoons don't pack enough of a punch thanks to a lack of AP), as are the Sicarians (T3 really hurts on this score), while the Vanguard are too short ranged to reliably contribute without a transport. Really the Onagers and Rangers are the pick of the dex, and even the Rangers suffer from some issues with the special weapons (the calliver should not be twice the cost of a plasma gun, the arequbus also probably isn't worth its cost).

 

I think the caliver is appropriately costed. It's hands down the best special weapon, and GW knew people are gonna spam it. Doesn't change the fact the squad is still dirt-cheap even with three. 9x plasma shots is great firepower, especially when you can up them to BS5 at will. Onagers I wanna try out, but they look promising (costed right, great weapon options and special rules). 

Realistically, allying with GKs (or any Marine for that matter) offers some solid advantages, most notably in durability (and some mobility). GKs can provide a solid backbone of heavy infantry/Dreadknights for the Skitarri to support. Until the Ad Mech get a bit more 'meat' in their range, I'd be surprised to seem them fielded solo with any great frequency.

 

Well we bring the melee threat, because Skitarii don't for the most part (barring the janky strider walkers). And durability plus Deepstrike threat. Wait and see though, we might see a fully fledged Mechanicus codex soon which fleshes out the army properly. I'm hyped for that :)

[Aethernitas]

Is it stackable, like old school markerlight counters? Even if its not, that's awesome.

 

No. The Luminage special rule says the cover malus is applied if the unit suffers ONE OR MORE wounds by a weapon with the special rule.

 

 

Skitarii are good, but they're an Ally codex with even less options than us. They're basically Scions but not trash, unlike Scions. I think they'll fit into the Imperial mixture of armies, but by themselves they have serious issues that have to be plugged with Allies.

 

They still are the easily most playable of all the Ally-codices and I think some builds could be quite tough. Unholy amounts of BS5+ shots flying your way in flavours like haywire or plasma and when you reach their lines turn 2-3 they have extremely dangerous countercharger in the Sicarian Ruststalkers and Infiltrators that all hit on 3+ and maybe even with pseudo Ini5 (they actually reduce you to 3). Thats all kinds of nasty potential and when a full AdMech Codex is released things get worse.

 

 

I think the caliver is appropriately costed. It's hands down the best special weapon, and GW knew people are gonna spam it. Doesn't change the fact the squad is still dirt-cheap even with three. 9x plasma shots is great firepower, especially when you can up them to BS5 at will. Onagers I wanna try out, but they look promising (costed right, great weapon options and special rules). 

 

Sometimes (as in pretty much always) I don't get you RD. You complain about the suboptimum survivability and yet a 30point plasma deathtrap issued by some sadistic AdMech quartermaster is appropriatly costed? I do realize that the Doctrina Imperatives kiiinda make those legit but you still triple the point cost of a T3 4+ model and there is still the chance that the model suffers a horrible self-inflicted death-by-overheating-plasma. Again - with the Imperatives it's ok I guess but for me the best choice by far are the arc rifles. Rapid fire S6 guns with haywire for 15 pts? Yes please!

[Happy-inquisitor]

 

I'm starting to think these guys are going to be the next big thing.... just a hunch, but from what I'm reading they look darn good.

 

I was at the local GW store this week, and I had to try something out so I was there for a long time. I could not believe the number of people coming in off the street and 'blindly' buying Skitarii boxes... wow. I mean literally the number of boxes I saw people buying (plus the 'skitarii paint') was staggering. 

 

They really are expensive per points, but if they rules turn out to be as good as everyone is speculating, then I don't even know if they need GK. Perhaps GK players will simply convert to pure Admech?

 

laughingnecrons.jpeg

 

Skitarii are good, but they're an Ally codex with even less options than us. They're basically Scions but not trash, unlike Scions. I think they'll fit into the Imperial mixture of armies, but by themselves they have serious issues that have to be plugged with Allies. 

 

 

The price of entry is 2 troops which in themselves are pretty good. Not ridiculously good and the temptation to overload them with upgrades could lead to expensive losses - but good. With their BS and cover save denying tricks and general shooty-to-durable ratio they look to be in a similar bracket to Fire Warriors but with more versatility and options for unique tricks - but no obsec and no metal boxes to hide in.

 

Of the rest of the options the Onager looks like the pick of the bunch to me, kinda fragile but a 4++ helps and the price point is acceptable for sometimes taking losses from lucky lascannon hits. Decent volumes of twin-linked S6 AP3 looks tasty and granting re-rolls on charge distance for GK allies is nice relish on top. Very tempting.

 

I would agree that at the moment they lack a really solid mobile spearhead unit like the NDK that would lift them towards the top tables in tournaments - as an Imperial army they have wide options to ally stuff in. If they are selling fast then we can hope GW get the message and put out some more AdMech later on to fill out their roster.

[Ishagu]

You'd assume Admech would be fielding Knights allies...

[Aethernitas]

You'd assume Admech would be fielding Knights allies...

 

If only the Styrix and Magaera were 40K playable...

[Ishagu]

The Mageara is...

[jeffersonian000]

Onagers are a nice fluff source of needed AA, which comes with fluffy and useful Troops. Not too shabby!

 

SJ

[Aethernitas]

Onagers are a nice fluff source of needed AA

 

I can see the Ordo Xenos leading Inquisition/Mechanicus expedition to aquire xenos artifacts or stuff like that but I think Skitarii fighting with GKs are quite the long shot. Sure there may be rare occurances of that unlikely alliance happening but I wouldn't exactly call it fluffy.

 

Apart from that the Onager surely does some work in the AA department and in some matchups it may even replace the Stormraven as primary AA choice now which frees up a huge chunk of points to spend elsewhere.

[Everon]

 

 

Onagers are a nice fluff source of needed AA

I can see the Ordo Xenos leading Inquisition/Mechanicus expedition to aquire xenos artifacts or stuff like that but I think Skitarii fighting with GKs are quite the long shot. Sure there may be rare occurances of that unlikely alliance happening but I wouldn't exactly call it fluffy.

 

Apart from that the Onager surely does some work in the AA department and in some matchups it may even replace the Stormraven as primary AA choice now which frees up a huge chunk of points to spend elsewhere.

Check out the Grey Knight trilogy by Ben Counter. Grey Knight / Mechanicum might be more probable then you think. Reference is also made in 'Emperor's Gift'. I will try to look up one I saw where there actually was a battle servitor and skitarii regiment with gk on a tainted world

[Aethernitas]

Check out the Grey Knight trilogy by Ben Counter. Grey Knight / Mechanicum might be more probable then you think. Reference is also made in 'Emperor's Gift'. I will try to look up one I saw where there actually was a battle servitor and skitarii regiment with gk on a tainted world

 

I actually read all four books (the trilogy and the ADB novel). The second Ben Counter novel was the one with the 'Dark Mechanicus' in it, right? For me that novel described exactly that rare occurance where the GKs and the AdMech get involved with each other and even there it was more like a covert mission. Not the biggest fan of the Ben Counter novels as in many of them GKs depart on outdrawn missions that have nothing to do with the GK doctrines and tactics and would be more fitting for an Inquisition force investigating certain events until they know enough to unleash the actual Grey Knight Strike Force to undertake a surgical strike against the enemy using all the informations the Inquisitor gathered.

 

THe ADB novel is awesome but I don't know what reference you are talking about. Would you mind to elaborate?

[Everon]

I know in emperor's gift it was mentioned when they talked about mal becoming a techmarine. Dark adeptus, I agree should have been more inquisitorial, but the inquisitor said f that, gk time! It has been a while but I thought there was references in dark adeptus and Grey knights.

 

I have to see if I can find that eBook that showed the skit reg and gk mission

[Leif Bearclaw]

It's worth remembering though, the Counter trilogy was written before Ward made knowing the the Grey Knights exist a capital offence. The version of fluff presented by that series would have Ad Mech/GK collaborations a lot more likely and common, especially with the potential for explorators and the like getting into 'they dug too deep' situations, which the GKs are then brought into alongside Skitarri reinforcements to sort the problem/bail out the tech priests. Whereas in the Ward fluff, by the time GKs get there on thier own, any on site Ad Mech are probably Daemon chow, and a body as insular and independent as the Ad Mech are unlikely to request help from a organisation that will require sacrificing their precious knowledge. They'd be more likely to deal with it in house, and deny everything if the Inquisition comes a calling.

[Aethernitas]

It's worth remembering though, the Counter trilogy was written before Ward made knowing the the Grey Knights exist a capital offence. The version of fluff presented by that series would have Ad Mech/GK collaborations a lot more likely and common, especially with the potential for explorators and the like getting into 'they dug too deep' situations, which the GKs are then brought into alongside Skitarri reinforcements to sort the problem/bail out the tech priests. Whereas in the Ward fluff, by the time GKs get there on thier own, any on site Ad Mech are probably Daemon chow, and a body as insular and independent as the Ad Mech are unlikely to request help from a organisation that will require sacrificing their precious knowledge. They'd be more likely to deal with it in house, and deny everything if the Inquisition comes a calling.

 

I don't have a problem with the more open collaboration between GKs and certain institutions and for for me the whole "all who have seen us must die" politics only really comes to bear when there is a GK operation on a huge scale going on which also ivolves the Ordo Malleus. The point that makes no sense to me is that the GKs are a very small institution for what they set out to accomplish and in that light it makes perfect sense that they use their speed to hit hard exactly where it matters, rip the enemies heart out and then vanish again cuz the next daemon incursion is already waiting. It's that dawdling about in some of Ben Counters novels that doesn't fit for me.

[Leif Bearclaw]

for me the whole "all who have seen us must die" politics only really comes to bear when there is a GK operation on a huge scale going on which also ivolves the Ordo Malleus.

That would make more sense (still think it'd be stupid, but ho hum), but unfortunately that's not what the fluff says. I'm sorry, but when you're destroying Imperial Space Stations because they logged the existence of Grey Knight ships then you've gone full grimderp and your fluff is bad. Hell, the first Counter book (easily the best of the three imo) even uses the GK's secrecy as a weakness, when the Traitor Inquisitor mobilises the entire planet against the 'Chaos Marines', and it's only thanks to the SoB Canoness having encounter GKs before that the strike force survived. In the post Ward fluff, Alaric and his men die in the trenches before getting anywhere near their objective, because that Cannoess took a bolter to the face from her 'allies' years previously (of course, this would actually have ruined the Daemon's plan, but that's Tzeentch for you ).

[Ishagu]

Some of the GK stuff is a bit silly imo.

If their ship breaks down far away from titan, will they execute the mechanicus repair ship crew that comes to help? :-P

 

Would most imperial forces not just assume they are silver space marines anyways?

[Aethernitas]

For me that part makes sense because small units of GKs sent to handle minor incursions have nowhere near enough time and/or ressources to cover their tracks. That's why there are and always have been those stories around about them mysterious knights clad in grey burning with azure fire blabla. The "cover our tracks" part has really always been the Inquisitions part. The bigger the operation the higher the expenditure the Inquisition is willing to undertake to bury informations under countless dead imperial citizens. The best and worst example is the debacle after the first war for Armageddon. Back then the "track covering" would have been kinda bloody but mostly clean until it became something of a dick-measuring contest between the Space Puppies and the Inquisition and dozens of millions died because of that. I actually liked that piece of grimdark/grimderp even though for our general set of values I think its far too mindboggling and incomprehensible.

[jeffersonian000]

Grey Knights are the 40k's Men in Black. Everyone knows about them, everyone knows someone who knew someone that saw one once, everyone knows not to talk about it or everyone dies, yet everyone talks about it because. Remember, all fluff is lies, propaganda, and myths.

 

SJ

[Prot]

I agree... it reminds me of the Dark Angels 'BIG SECRET'.... yea nobody knows a bunch of the legion went heretic... riiiiiiiiiiight.