Horus Heresy House Rules.

[Brother Heinrich]

My group is going to try House-ruling the Moritat so that he still overheats on 1's and 2's, but his chainfire only ends after two 1's have been rolled. We'll see how destructive he ends up being lol.

[GhostMalone]

Allright so here's my first entry and my current character;

 

Praevian Captain Tyson Ordamis

First of the Soulless, Officer of the Iron Warriors

145pts

WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+

 

Unit Composition- Tyson Ordamis

 

Unit Type- Infantry (Independent Character), Unique

 

Wargear:

-Artificer Armour

-Combi Plasma (Iron Fire)

-Bolt Pistol

-Master Crafted Power fist

-Frag and Krak Grenades

-Refractor Field

-Cortex Controller

 

Special Rules:

-Legion Astrates IVth Legion Iron Warriors

-Master of the Legion

-Preferred Enemy (Legion Astrates)

-Master of Cybernetica

-Cortex Controller

-Cortex Designator

 

Warlord Trait:

Mannequin Soldiers (Tyson Ordamis and any unit within 12" gain IWND when within the enemies Deployment zone)

[spu00sed]

Brother Heinrich, I assume that means a moritat might hit 10 times, but suffers 5 overheats. Keeping his destructive power the same, but increasing his chance of blowing himself up. I like it

[Moonstalker]

I don't think that Moritat thing is a good idea.  It's contrary to FW's intent (nerf the potential damage output of a dual-plasma moritat).  Even if the overheats kill him afterwards (which they most likely won't, considering he almost certainly has a 2+ save), he still got his shots off, which is what FW is trying to prevent - and considering the position you generally have to put a Moritat in, he's probably dead the turn after he gets his chainfire off anyway.  The chainfire which you just used to massively trade up, so even when he dies you've already gotten your value out of him.  It's a bad house rule, reeks of old cheese.

 

My idea?  Trade BS for extra shots.  Instead of rolling an additional shot for each hit, Chainfire now allows you to trade ballistic skill for extra shots, representing how the Moritat can use his reflexes and skill with pistols to trade accuracy for rapid fire.

 

-0 BS = 2 shots from each pistol

-1 BS = 4 shots from each pistol

-2 BS = 6 shots from each pistol

-3 BS = 8 shots from each pistol

-4 BS = 10 shots from each pistol

 

So you could make 12 plasma shots with your moritat, but it would be at BS3, leading to an average 6 hits, but also an average of 2 overheats.  Before, you might've expected 10 hits under the same conditions.  Ish.  So it's still a general nerf to the plasma moritat, but not quite as nasty as 'overheats on 1 and 2 and the entire chainfire ends.'  If you feel like gambling, you could go all the way up to 20 shots, but at BS1 you're hitting on 6's.  Roll average, and you screwed yourself, you'd have been better off firing fewer shots and having higher BS.  Roll high, and you might've also save your bacon.  Generally, though, I think the high shot options are most useful to IF moritats using bolt pistols.

[GhostMalone]

Rite of War: Strike and Fade

 

Effects

-Units and models in Terminator Armour gain the deep strike special rule.

-All models with unit type flyers may enter from reserve from turn one (still rolling as normal on the reserves table).

-Any model with a jump pack gains the hit and run rule if they didn't already possess it.

-All infantry gain an extra D6 on the charge unless they are equipped with heavy weapons.

 

Limitations

-You may not take any fortifications.

-You may not take an allied force.

-List must Include Dedicated Transports for all infantry (excluding any terminator variant)

-Compulsory Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron must be included.

-Two Compulsory units containing vehicle profile Flyer must be included (This excludes dedicated transports for squads, flyers must be taken separate for compulsory FA slots)

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[Brother Heinrich]

I don't think that Moritat thing is a good idea.  It's contrary to FW's intent (nerf the potential damage output of a dual-plasma moritat).  Even if the overheats kill him afterwards (which they most likely won't, considering he almost certainly has a 2+ save), he still got his shots off, which is what FW is trying to prevent - and considering the position you generally have to put a Moritat in, he's probably dead the turn after he gets his chainfire off anyway.  The chainfire which you just used to massively trade up, so even when he dies you've already gotten your value out of him.  It's a bad house rule, reeks of old cheese.

 

My idea?  Trade BS for extra shots.  Instead of rolling an additional shot for each hit, Chainfire now allows you to trade ballistic skill for extra shots, representing how the Moritat can use his reflexes and skill with pistols to trade accuracy for rapid fire.

 

-0 BS = 2 shots from each pistol

-1 BS = 4 shots from each pistol

-2 BS = 6 shots from each pistol

-3 BS = 8 shots from each pistol

-4 BS = 10 shots from each pistol

 

So you could make 12 plasma shots with your moritat, but it would be at BS3, leading to an average 6 hits, but also an average of 2 overheats.  Before, you might've expected 10 hits under the same conditions.  Ish.  So it's still a general nerf to the plasma moritat, but not quite as nasty as 'overheats on 1 and 2 and the entire chainfire ends.'  If you feel like gambling, you could go all the way up to 20 shots, but at BS1 you're hitting on 6's.  Roll average, and you screwed yourself, you'd have been better off firing fewer shots and having higher BS.  Roll high, and you might've also save your bacon.  Generally, though, I think the high shot options are most useful to IF moritats using bolt pistols.

 

Yeah that just seems overly complicated. If there's anything I hate in a house rule, it's complication of a relatively simple concept. Also I really don't care what FW is trying to do. What they are trying to do is completely stop people from taking a moritat and they succeeded. Have you rolled a volkite serpenta moritat against regular marines? It's freaking laughable. You're just giving away points because they'll all mag dump or mob him and kill his ass by sheer weight of numbers. Thats just regular marines, against anything bigger or badder you might as well just start the game 165 points short on your list.

 

Also nothing in the game trades accuracy for rapid fire. Look at fury of the Legion, it represents them placing their bolters on full-auto and dumping the entire magazine. They still get BS4 for all their shots.

[helterskelter]

Why not just bs +1 for an extra 10 points, so plasma moritat has a chance to reroll his fudged rolls, but could still die/miss on the reroll

[Slips]

Why not just give him Preferred Enemy (Infantry/characters) so that a plasma moritat is still rerolling 1s but fails on 2s?

 

Better yet, give him Archeotech Pistols as an option ~the same cost as plasma pistols. Sure, 2+ will still laugh but 3+ wont!

[Brother Heinrich]

Idk, the only other tweak I could see making would be to maybe disallow him taking a refractor field so he's just that much more squishy. I feel like people are terrified of the moritat because of his damage output potential, but they negelect to think about how much of a glass cannon he is. He's a single T4, W2 model with a 2+ save. Nothing crazy there at all. A well placed lascannon or melta shot and he's done. There are dozens of ways to kill him cheaply and quickly, especially considering he has a 12" movement range with a jetpack and a 12" kill radius with the pistols. There are tons of crap that can kill him from well beyond that range with barely a thought, and 165pts and a kill point are definitely worth taking the time to snipe him.

 

Idk, I feel like my opponent would rather kill a single space marine then try to take down say 3 thudd guns or 3 rapier destroyers for the same cost.

 

Edit: Achaeotech Pistols are a good idea as well.

[Slips]

Its why I usually recommend a destroyer bodyguard for ablative wounds and fleshbane ap3 missile launchers to help him out.

 

Granted this brings the cost of the unit up to near-deathstar levels.

 

I'm loathed to say it but a moritat witb destroyers in a land raider proteus is probably the only way to make him as tough and durable as possible.

 

Sadly, at its cheapest, this brings thecost of the unit up by 350 points (150 bb destroyers + 200 LR prot)

 

That or give him the Warp Shint Field relic (hello near-infinite threat range!) or the Void Shield Harness (AV12 safety bubble) though they are book 4 relics and in thr region of 35+ points for each.

 

If youre an Alpha Legion moritat, you luck out a bit with theor book4 relic pistol.

[helterskelter]

Now excuse me for going straight to my go to legion, but a Night Lord moritat gets that 5+ save for his first turn, allowing him the potential to get into range, and if you go to the wonderful terror assault,.2/4/6 on a dice night fighting potential for 3 turns, unless you are a raven guard with a funky set of glasses or more night lords it gets a touch harder to kill him if you can't see him, assuming poor retaliatory dice rolls on how far they can see/the assumption you've killed what you aim at. I know the legion units are for everyone, but some work better/worse than others depending on the legion. But yeah more balderdash from the hand of helterskelter :p

[spu00sed]

Thought I would tackle a variant for the command squad, whilst some green stuff dries.

 

command squad

Unit composition

3 space marine chosen

 

Unit type

Infantry

 

Wargear

Artificer armour

Bolter

Bolt pistol

Chainsword

Frag and krak grenades

 

Special rules

Legiones astartes

Chosen warriors

Retinue

 

Dedicated transport

A legin command squad may take a rhino or a land raider (any variant including Spartan) as a dedicated transport.

 

Options

Up to 7 additional chosen

 

The entire squad may take

Melta bombs

Legion specific wargear

 

Any member may take

Combat shield

Boarding shield

 

Any member may exchange their chainsword and/or both pistol for one of the following

Bolt pistol

Volkite serpenta

Plasma pistol

Heavy chain sword

Charnabal sabre

Power weapon

Power fist

Lightning claw

Legio specific weapons

 

Any chosen may exchange their bolter for

Volkite charger

Combi bolter

 

For every 5 models in the command squad one may exchange their bolter for one of the following

Plasma gun

Melta gun

Flamer

Volkite caliver

 

One member may be upgraded to a legion standard bearer

The legion standard bearer gains a vexillia

 

The legion standard bearer may exchange their bolter and their vexillia for one of the following standards

Legion standard: all units within 6" gain fearless

Crusader standard: all units within 6" may reroll failed charges

Cohort standard: all units within 6" add +1 their score to determine who has won an assault.

Standard of vengeance: the bolters of all units within 6" are salvo 2/4 rather than rapid fire

 

If the squads praetor, delagatus or primarch has a bike, jet bike or jump pack then the command squad must also be identically equipped. And loses the option for dedicated transport.

 

A massive rework of the command squad. Much more weapon flexibility, they are an elite veteran tactical squad, without the heavier weapons.

 

The increase in size is to give primarchs a decent command squad to hang out with.

 

The weapon flexibility is to help customise the squad to your legion (breacher command squad for example).

 

Finally I made having a standard an option, so you don't need to lug the legions standard into every fight. I have also given a variety of standards to make it more flexible. Do you want someone to hold the centre (fearless), or to improve your bolter gun line (imperial fists). It also gives the chance to make some lego. Specific standards.

[Brother Heinrich]

Now excuse me for going straight to my go to legion, but a Night Lord moritat gets that 5+ save for his first turn, allowing him the potential to get into range, and if you go to the wonderful terror assault,.2/4/6 on a dice night fighting potential for 3 turns, unless you are a raven guard with a funky set of glasses or more night lords it gets a touch harder to kill him if you can't see him, assuming poor retaliatory dice rolls on how far they can see/the assumption you've killed what you aim at. I know the legion units are for everyone, but some work better/worse than others depending on the legion. But yeah more balderdash from the hand of helterskelter

Oh agreed, there are tons of ways in which people can abuse the 30k ruleset and the legion rules (or motherfreaking Mechanium for that matter). But I think the goal is less to eliminate the potential for people to be cheesy crap heads and more just to give them fluffy cool options.

Thats the nature of heresy gamers, we pay a premium to play the game that we do and the reason we play it is because we are all fluff nuts. From the outside looking in we're just marines killing marines, so the average power-gaming TauDar player just doesn't get it. For the vast majority of us I'd say, it's less about making the most brutal combo possible, and more about representing cool aspects of a fictional history that we enjoy.

I mean the list I'm taking the Plasma Moritat in looks like this:

• Jetbike Praetor with Blood Angel Lightsaber

• Plasma/Jetpack Moritat

• Rhino Tac Squad w/extra CC Weapons

• Rhino Tac Squad w/extra CC Weapons

• Contemptor w/Kheres & Fist

• 5x Legion Terminators w/Plasma Blaster & Axes

• 6x Jetbikes w/2x Volkite Culverins

• Vindicator

• Vindicator

• Total: 1750pts

Hardly an optimized all comers list, there's no anti-air, no reliable ranged anti-armor, the praetor and jetbikes are ruined if they get into CC with a dread since they have no melta bombs, and I have 165 points sunk into a single 2W, T4 infantry model lol.

What annoyed me so much about the Moritat nerf was that it smacked of FW feeling they needed to parent us. I know I can break the game. I could run some truly horrednous and legal mechanicum lists that would ensure no one played with me ever. But I don't because I have better sense than that. If I'm running my house-ruled Moritat, I also have the sense not to make my entire list a brutal beater that'll leave people cussing and crying.

The key with house rules and heresy gaming is learning RESTRAINT. To me this game is about creating cool battlefields that are challenging and fun. The destructive potential of 30k is what attracts me so much, LEGIONS OF SPACE MARINES PEOPLE. Everything is going to be over the top, world burning insanity.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Rite of War: Strike and Fade

 

Effects

-Units and models in Terminator Armour gain the deep strike special rule.

-All models with unit type flyers may enter from reserve from turn one (still rolling as normal on the reserves table).

-Any model with a jump pack gains the hit and run rule if they didn't already possess it.

-All infantry gain an extra D6 on the charge unless they are equipped with heavy weapons.

 

Limitations

-You may not take any fortifications.

-You may not take an allied force.

-List must Include Dedicated Transports for all infantry (excluding any terminator variant)

-Compulsory Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron must be included.

-Two Compulsory units containing vehicle profile Flyer must be included (This excludes dedicated transports for squads, flyers must be taken separate for compulsory FA slots)

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Hmm that sounds really interesting. The only thing I would add is that everyone must have vehicles or be able to infiltrate maybe? Otherwise pretty cool.

[Vazzy]

Regarding the moritat, as he was he really wasn't that op. I found that generally I was only getting 10 or so shots and him getting wiped out the next turn. So yeah, I like Heinrich ideas tbh.

[GhostMalone]

 

Rite of War: Strike and Fade

 

Effects

-Units and models in Terminator Armour gain the deep strike special rule.

-All models with unit type flyers may enter from reserve from turn one (still rolling as normal on the reserves table).

-Any model with a jump pack gains the hit and run rule if they didn't already possess it.

-All infantry gain an extra D6 on the charge unless they are equipped with heavy weapons.

 

Limitations

-You may not take any fortifications.

-You may not take an allied force.

-List must Include Dedicated Transports for all infantry (excluding any terminator variant)

-Compulsory Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron must be included.

-Two Compulsory units containing vehicle profile Flyer must be included (This excludes dedicated transports for squads, flyers must be taken separate for compulsory FA slots)

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Hmm that sounds really interesting. The only thing I would add is that everyone must have vehicles or be able to infiltrate maybe?

Sort of limited then to the concept as you'd need mainly recon troops as your mandatory troops.

 

I still wanted people to be able to say drop pod in a auto cannon squad for the strike part or roll on in a rhino or raider.

 

I'll tweak it a bit but I have more ideas for RoW to change stuff up.

 

 

and sup00sed love the updated command squad I think it's viable

[GhostMalone]

Now excuse me for going straight to my go to legion, but a Night Lord moritat gets that 5+ save for his first turn, allowing him the potential to get into range, and if you go to the wonderful terror assault,.2/4/6 on a dice night fighting potential for 3 turns, unless you are a raven guard with a funky set of glasses or more night lords it gets a touch harder to kill him if you can't see him, assuming poor retaliatory dice rolls on how far they can see/the assumption you've killed what you aim at. I know the legion units are for everyone, but some work better/worse than others depending on the legion. But yeah more balderdash from the hand of helterskelter

Oh agreed, there are tons of ways in which people can abuse the 30k ruleset and the legion rules (or motherfreaking Mechanium for that matter). But I think the goal is less to eliminate the potential for people to be cheesy crap heads and more just to give them fluffy cool options.

Thats the nature of heresy gamers, we pay a premium to play the game that we do and the reason we play it is because we are all fluff nuts. From the outside looking in we're just marines killing marines, so the average power-gaming TauDar player just doesn't get it. For the vast majority of us I'd say, it's less about making the most brutal combo possible, and more about representing cool aspects of a fictional history that we enjoy.

I mean the list I'm taking the Plasma Moritat in looks like this:

• Jetbike Praetor with Blood Angel Lightsaber

• Plasma/Jetpack Moritat

• Rhino Tac Squad w/extra CC Weapons

• Rhino Tac Squad w/extra CC Weapons

• Contemptor w/Kheres & Fist

• 5x Legion Terminators w/Plasma Blaster & Axes

• 6x Jetbikes w/2x Volkite Culverins

• Vindicator

• Vindicator

• Total: 1750pts

Hardly an optimized all comers list, there's no anti-air, no reliable ranged anti-armor, the praetor and jetbikes are ruined if they get into CC with a dread since they have no melta bombs, and I have 165 points sunk into a single 2W, T4 infantry model lol.

What annoyed me so much about the Moritat nerf was that it smacked of FW feeling they needed to parent us. I know I can break the game. I could run some truly horrednous and legal mechanicum lists that would ensure no one played with me ever. But I don't because I have better sense than that. If I'm running my house-ruled Moritat, I also have the sense not to make my entire list a brutal beater that'll leave people cussing and crying.

The key with house rules and heresy gaming is learning RESTRAINT. To me this game is about creating cool battlefields that are challenging and fun. The destructive potential of 30k is what attracts me so much, LEGIONS OF SPACE MARINES PEOPLE. Everything is going to be over the top, world burning insanity.

I completely agree with you Heinrich, we could have multiple ruleset for the Mortriat utilizing different ideas and balancing mechanics.

That way people can select what ruleset they need maybe it's a in house tournament and rather than nerd out the Mortriat they could choose to have a mechanic like losing BS for shots or as you suggested Heinrich in a one on one setting change the gunslinger rule and make him a time bomb that could wipe out a 20 man tac squad or supernova like a star.

This thread isn't to say your wrong or that's OP or full of cheese it's about adding fun and giving people more options.

Forgeworld are doing a great job with the campaign creator character advancement system relics and everything but there's a million more options we can add.

I'll be posting all of IHF'S vehicle designs soon and I'll be creating some of the Auto cannon and demo cannon variants for myself.

Just have fun with creativity and I'll sort it out once im home on tge first post breaking down into the following structure;

•Rights of War

•Unique Characters

•Updated existing entries

•Weapon profile Modifications

•New Concept entries (Units, Tanks, Flyers)

•Campaign rules

•World rules

•Relic rules

And as new ideas are introduced I'll expand on the content

Edit: And remember these House Rules are for enjoyment between 2 consenting gamers with scotch cigars and cake or beer pretzels and bacon loaded sandwiches

[GhostMalone]

Next entry;

 

Legion Sapper Squad

150pts

 

Legion Sapper Space Marine

WS4 BS5 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+

 

Legion Trench Raider

WS4 BS5 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv3+

 

Unit Composition

- 4 Sapper Space Marines

- 1 Trench Raider

 

Unit Type

-Infantry

 

Wargear

-Power Armour

-Bolter

-Bolt Pistol

-Frag and Krak Grenades

-Chainswords

 

Special rules

-Legion Astrates

-Scout

-Target Acquired

 

Dedicated Transport

-A Sapper Squad may choose a Rhino as a dedicated transport. Note that if an army contains a character that has one of the Rites of War special rules (See page 189), other dedicated transport options may be available for the squad.

 

Options

-The Legion Sapper Squad may take;

-Up to 5 Additional Sapper Space marines +15pts each

-One Sapper may take a Nuncio-Vox +10pts

-Any Sapper Space Marine may exchange their bolter for;

-Combi-Weapon +10pts

-One in Five Sapper may exchange their Bolter for;

-Meltagun +15pts

-Plasmagun +15pts

-Flamer Free

-Shotgun Free

-Volkite Caliver +5pts

-Rotor Cannon +5pts

-Heavy Flamer +15pts

-The entire sapper squad can be equipped with Melta Bombs +25 pts

-The Sapper Squad may take up to 3 Breaching Charges

-Breaching Charge +10pts

-The Legion Trench Raider may take any of the following;

-Augury Scanner +5pts

-Melta Bombs +5pts

-The Legion Trench Raider may exchange their bolt pistol for;

-Plasma Pistol +15pts

-The Legion Trench Raider may exchange their chainsword for one of the following;

-Power Weapon +10pts

-Power Fist +15pts

-Single Lightning Claw +15pts

-the Legion Trench Raider may upgrade to Artificer Armour +10pts

 

Target Acquired

After the two sides have deployed and all infiltrators and scout movements have taken place the controlling player may select one Vehicle or Fortification as being targeted by Target Acquired. Make a note of which unit this is. The legion sapper unit now counts as having +1WS and +1BS against this target and any unit within.

[ThatOneMarshal]

I like the idea of the sappers it might be cool to have them able to take those demolition bots that the solar auxilia get. They are meant to take stuff down as combat engineers. Maybe have an aspiring tech marine in their? On the trench raiders it would be nice to have shotguns as standard on them. They are meant to be moving through your opponents trench and are rapid moving unit also they tended to be a little bit more lightly armored. Also I'm a bit confused target acquired is only the legion sappers right? I might actually try some of these units out.

[GhostMalone]

I like the idea of the sappers it might be cool to have them able to take those demolition bots that the solar auxilia get. They are meant to take stuff down as combat engineers. Maybe have an aspiring tech marine in their? On the trench raiders it would be nice to have shotguns as standard on them. They are meant to be moving through your opponents trench and are rapid moving unit also they tended to be a little bit more lightly armored. Also I'm a bit confused target acquired is only the legion sappers right? I might actually try some of these units out.

Hmmmm I like the shotgun idea but will that take out an enemy marine?

I wanted to balance it between recon veteran and seeker but without the cost of breachers.

 

These guys aren't just for trenches so I wanted to give them some survivability with scout and weapon options and yes target acquired only applies to the sappers should I reword the rule?

 

And does this feel balanced?

 

Not sure weather they should be FA like seekers or troops?

 

Edit: not sure how to work the tech marine idea or the demo bots, maybe the trench raider is a future breacher rather then techy

[Praefectus Invictus]

You could have the trench raider have the option to take up to two demo bots, and the sappers should have the options to take shotguns and recon armour (I think it is called that?) .

[GhostMalone]

If I do that I will have to lower the squad to 5 to fit in a rhino.

[Praefectus Invictus]

If I do that I will have to lower the squad to 5 to fit in a rhino.

Are demo bots bulky?

[GhostMalone]

Just feels like the demo bots are a bit much but I could do an entry for tech adepts (trainee tech marines that utilize demo bots and tech thralls) the sappers are more likely to be insertion over destruction this way a saboteur or Vigilator could be run with them and they work alongside seekers recons and breacher lists.

 

Recon gather Intel

Breachers raid trenches

Seekers assassinate HQ

Sappers sabotage tanks and fortifications

 

 

I will give the option to switch to shotguns for free but recon armour will stay with recon marines to keep it balanced

[Praefectus Invictus]

Okay sweet. Also I like the entry for sappers, cool concept!