Mechanized Astra Militarum: Effective?

[Rommel44]

Hey mates. After collecting enough SM to run a 2000 point DP list, I put them on hold as the news surfaced that they will be getting a new Codex in August, which gives me time to focus on my Astra Militarum list. That being said, I am looking to run a Mechanized Infantry list with Veterans as my troops in Chimeras, supported by other units, however is the Mechanized Vet list effective still in this edition? Currently this is what I am wondering about: 

 

* Leman Russ Varients: Been suggested I go with a Vanquisher, but I have never been a fan of BS Tanks unless it is BS 4 or Twin-Linked, and currently leaning towards either the Demolisher or the Exterminator. 

 

* Chimeras: Usually I have seen most people stay with the Multilaser turret and I plan to as well, however I am torn on the hull mounted weapon. Heavy Flames are tempting due to all the horde lists out there, and by giving the Chimera a Heavy Stubber, I can still move and fire two weapons at a distance, and when I or my opponent gets close I can torch them. Just a thought as although I like that idea, might be more effective to stay with the Heavy Bolter. Plus I need to confirm that if I only can fire one weapon after moving 6 inches, as I thought I could fire 2 at full BS. 

 

* Thunderbolt or Vendetta Gunship? 

 

* Are Manticors a good option in this edition or no due to the limited shots? 

 

* Sentinels: Not a great option but I have seen them be useful, either as All-Around flexible with Autocannons and HKM or even with Lascannons or Plasma Cannons. Thoughts? 

 

* Hellhounds: Not seen a lot anymore but would the Devil Dog varient be worth it? 

 

* Tempted to include Scions in Taurox Primes, as I would give them Missiles and Auto-Cannons for long range Anti-Tank but not sure if I'm honest. 

 

Would like to keep this more as a Light Armored Mechanized list, but now a days you need Leman Russ Tanks to do well if your Astra Militarum so keep the feedback coming. 

[Chefzilla]

So a mech list works very well. I would suggest Pask in a Punisher or Executioner with a Vanquisher wingman for any tanks you meet. Pask gives his squadron Preferred Enemy.

 

I love my Vendetta but I don't have a Manticore. My 2 Wyvrens reek havoc though. I enjoy playing my Sentinel but I'm still learning how to best employ it.

 

A Hellhound is one of my next purchases and you can't go wrong with Scions. I normally put mine in my Vendetta but have been known to Deep Strike them just to keep my opponent on their toes.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I don't run pure mech myself, but more of a "combined arms" approach with some mechanized elements and armour, but also a foot platoon and horsies and hobbits.

 

That said, I think the mech stuff can work well and I've seen others use it to good effect.

 

Hellhounds are still pretty good. The mech list I faced at a tournament last year featured two of them, alongside Paskunisher with Eradicator wingman, and a bunch of plasma-toting veterans in chimeras. It seemed like a pretty effective list, although I did learn to love the krak grenades that all DKoK troops must carry that battle as my dismounted platoon accounted for 3 Leman Russes and both hellhounds via krak grenade assaults that battle. The Hellhounds hurt A LOT when they shot at me though and I think the particular mission and terrain counted against him which is why I got so many assaults on his vehicles (something to be wary of).

 

As for Scions, I've always included at least a squad of storm troopers in my armies since 3rd edition, and I find the most recent iteration of them (Scions) to continue to be very useful and flexible units. Unfortunately I don't think it's worth running them in units larger than 5 though especially if they are deep striking. You are basically just handing kills to your opponent that way (although a 10-man unit can weather the storm and stick around to shoot a second turn).

[steellegionnaire85]

If you use this kind of list you must balance it. If you take Pask he is best served in a Vanquisher or a Punisher. Keep in mind you must use all of the guard strengths to your advantage. What I mean is have multiple purposes for your units.

 

I have been in the guard since 1999. I have used almost ever combination possible. And to do so in building a list you must think things through.

 

For instance, if you take Pask in a Punisher build his squadron around that. I run a Pask Punisher and a second Punisher. Both with heavy bolters hull and sponson mounted. That is some of my anti infantry. I take two to three veteran squads in Chimeras. I usually take them with heavy bolters in both. This is more anti infantry. If you want some anti tank take the multilaser and a heavy bolter combo.

 

For more anti tank I take lascannons on my sentinels, with Hunter killer missile. These guys can hit hard, mine are armored with gives more survivability.

 

I also usually take a squadron of two Exterminators. These can be another tank commander squadron if you have the points, although the twin linked autocannon does well without bs 4. Also I take them with hull mounted lascannons and heavy bolters in the sponson. If you can use these for dual purposes anti infantry and tanks.

 

Hellhounds and devil dogs do well for more anti infantry and anti tank, respectively. If you have the points using a vendetta helps too. I would also take either Eradicators or Wyverns for more anti infantry. Manticores have the punch but their price if high.

[Altasmurf]

Mechanized is a great way to go. In fact with all the thunder cannons, Wyvren, and other barrage cover ignoring weapons infantry not in shell get vaporized.

 

To cover your questions

1. I love the exterminator with multi meltas, and lascannon. Works with any bs and can tackle any thing but a horde. Really though it's your chimera that handle that job. Consider an executioner if you feel your list is lacking ap 2.Vanquishers seem ok, but you better run a couple at least to make sure your few hits count.

 

2. Not a big fan myself, ap 4 hampers the str 10 for vs vehicles, and wyvren just kill infantry so much more efficiently.

 

3. The only reason to bring sentinels is to cover a heavy weapon weakness. If you are brining any probably bring at least 3 because bs3 on a weak platform means you won't be getting a lot of shots hitting.

 

4. Hellhounds and their ilk are underrated. Everyone complains guard lack speed but they're really just not willing to pay for it. They fit great in a mechanized list just due to armour saturation. And they fill a pretty straightforward hole, need anti infantry get a hellhounds. Need anti tank get a devil dog

 

5. Scions can be a great addition, but grabbing the for just a prime to hunt tanks might not be the best plan. There's better tank hunters and just no point in hailing scions and staying back to plunk away. Sections are meant to get in and get dirty.

 

All this is naturally just my opinion. Make sure you listen everyone's point of view because there's all ready some great advice here.

 

Ps

I noticed I missed the flyer question, but I've never used forge world.

[CommissarZac]

Big fan of the Punisher and Vanquisher models.   As for hellhounds and devildogs, I don't use them so I can't comment on them.   For me It's all about the Leman Russ


http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120328001043/warhammer40k/images/a/aa/LemanRussVanquisher14.png

[WarriorFish]

As mentioned mech still works well but the key is a good balance. You do better with a good number of troops which conveniently gives you great options for delivering lots of BS4 special weapons to your opponent's door. This frees up the rest of your army to work around them and provide the support they need :) I like my Chimers to have a multi-laser, heavy bolter and heavy stubber. Lets them sit back and throw out a lot of dice, but if you're moving towards the enemy you can't beat a heavy flamer as a back up weapon.

 

All the Fast Attack options will work well with such a mobile force as they can either keep up or arrive from flanks to support the Veteran's push. Hellhound variants especially as they mount powerful weapons on a Fast piece of medium armour. The trusty normal Hellhound will remove all horde concerns for you but if you want to slag heavy armour the Devil Dog will strike fear into your opponent. Not as much as the Banewolf makes Marines fill their power nappies though... :P

 

The variants of Russ tank are always a good fit in a Guard army with no exceptions. Take the ones you want and need ;) Flyers always help, in a Vet list the Vendetta will purely be a gunship rather than a transport probably but it does have great guns.

[march10k]

I've been playing IG since 1998...I haven't played anything but mech for the last ten years or so (yes, even in that horrible interlude where we lost armored fist squads, didn't yet have veteran squads, and chimeras cost like 85 points (meaning a minimum of seven of them to go full mech)!).  Under the current codex, accept no substitute.  

 

Chimeras are back up a little in points from the last codex, but they got empty-superscoring status back and they were honestly a bit undercosted in the last book.  Vets got a LOT better in this codex, dropping ten points while losing krak grenades, which you can buy back for...ten points.  More importantly, their disciplines (forward sentries is the one I use) came way down in price.  A lot more flexible and no longer overpriced.  Bottom line, mechanized vets are a fantastic troops choice, taking two of them is hardly anything you could call a tax, I usually take four squads of forward sentries with autocannons and chimeras at 145 points a squad.  The troops usually bunker in ruins (where I try to drop an objective for them to sit on) for 3+ cover while the chimera maneuvers to claim distant objectives, but if I see a lot of flamers on the table or a hellturkey in reserves, they stay in the transports.  I go for a mix of heavy flamers and heavy bolters on the hull mount, they both have strengths.

 

Sentinels are really really good.  Either take armored sentinels with autocannons for really cheap AV12 autocannons or outflank some scout sentinels with multilasers for rear and, worst case, side shots at stuff that's hiding from your big guns.  Even a single armored sentinel is an asset, but if you're doing the outflanking scout sentinels, you really need multiples.  Another fantastic thing about armored sentinels is they're AV12 with a WS value, so anything a dreadnought can tarpit, an armored sentinel can tarpit, too, like a horde of chaos hounds, etc.  Nothing funnier than 30 puppies of khorne locked down by a 45 point model.  I usually only have 1-2 armored sentinels in my list, there are better ways to spend serious points, but sents are a GREAT way to spend leftovers.

 

For tanks, ever since we got tank commanders, I've fielded Pask without fail.  I used to take it for granted that my opponent was going to slay my squishy T3 warlord, but an AV14 warlord? Money, as long as you keep him at distance.  That's my problem with putting Pask in a punisher, although it's very killy and the most popular option.  I prefer to put him in a vanquisher where he can just hide in a corner and autopen AV14.  For his wingm(a/e)n, either LRBTs (splitting fire) or more vanquishers.  For tanks in the heavy support slot, I go with demolishers (accept no substitute, S10AP2 ordnance kills everything...unless it's in cover, which leads me to) and eradicators.  Cover-ignoring AP4 pieplates just ruin non-MEQ infantry, and the 5" blast that wounds most things on 2+ forces a ton of saves on even marines.  Also, these shorter-ranged tanks tend to get pushed up the field, forcing the enemy to fight farther away from Pask, enhancing his survivability...I've only lost him twice, both times when I was tabled.

 

If you do go with Pask in a punisher, I would recommend executioner wingmen, Pask gives them preferred enemy, so your risk of getting hot drops to 1/36 per shot...same with your failure to wound!

[Jacinda]

* Thunderbolt or Vendetta Gunship? 

 

Vendetta.  Your wallet will thank you.

[hendrik]

* Thunderbolt or Vendetta Gunship?

Vendetta. Your wallet will thank you.

Unless you convert your thunderbolt from the valkyrie kit

[Rommel44]

Appreciate the feedback so far mates. As it stands right now, I already plan to field:

* 6x Chimeras, Currently equipped with Multilaser and Heavy Bolter but I need to confirm that if I only can fire one weapon after moving 6 inches, as I thought I could fire 2 at full BS.

* 6x Vet Squads, all with Grenadiers, 4x with 2x Plasma, Hvy. Flamer, 2x with 2x Melta, Hvy. Flamer. Flexible and as you pointed out, only 2x Special Weapons can fire from the Chimera ' s hatch so I opted for the Hvy Flamer, as S5 is so much better.

* Vendetta Gunship

With this, I nearly have 1250 points worth of Astra Militarum, which is a good start. Now I just need to figure things out from here and as it stands, I am debating if I should either run the Tank Command or a Regular Command Squad for my HQ in a Chimera. If I go the Pask Tank Commander, I am currently leaning towards either:

 

* Vanquisher

-w/a Hull Mounter Lascannon

 

* Punisher:

-w/3x Hvy. Bolters

 

* Exterminator:

-w/Hull-Mounted Lascannon, Side-Sponsor Multi-Melta's

 

Although I love the Punisher tank build and what it can do, I already have enogh Anti-Infantry with the Vet Squads in Chimeras, so I am leaning more towards the Vanquisher and the Ecterminator. The Exterminator is a lot Cheaper and I can build it to to be the ultimate Anti-Tank or All-Purpose Vehicle with the above build, and with Pask he makes the Autocannons rendending, and I have seen these tanks take down Flyers as well. But the Vanquisher is very useful for the Long-Range and the accuracy with Pask as the Tank Commandermakes a great choice as well. Besides that, what would be a good way to equip the one tank that comes with him base? Make it similar to Pask's tank or do something different? If not, there is nothing wrong with a Cheap Command Squad in a Chimera w/3x Melta's and a Medic for another Anti-Tank Squad.

 

Besides the HQ decision, I am considering on what to do for my fast attack option. While the Hellhound varients are nice, I have always been a fan of the Sentinels in both there uses and there fluff, however what are peoples opinions of an Armored Sentinels w/Lascannons to help with the Long-Range tank? Granted the Auto-Cannons are more flexible, but I have always considered running Sentinels w/Lascannons and just wondered how effective they could be.

[hendrik]

you need to get some magnets! ;) those allow you to make any variant. the list itself is solid. my only change would be to maybe have two units armed to sit on an objective. Simply swpping the heavy flamer for an autocannon can drasticly change their role.

A brief summary:

-Agressive playstyle, yes you'll miss out on the HF template, but then again you should have the hull HF nearby to roast things up close and you'll still get 2 snapshots with the autocannon

-defensive playstyle, say you need to hold an objective. park the chimera nearby and use the autocannon and multilaser to pluck away at units far away.

 

On the chimeras, I recommend a healty dose of both hull HFs and hull HBs. the heavy bolters come in nice when you need to keep closer towards your deploymentzone but i can't count anymore how many times the hull HF has saved my ass!

[march10k]

Fast vehicles can move and still shoot two weapons at full BS...chimeras are not fast.

 

Oh, and I have three lascannon sentinels...they come out like once every other year.  BS3, and relatively expensive.  Blech.

[Canadian_F_H]

Once I have a few things out of the way I plan to mechanize my IG. I've read allot that makes it sounds very viable.

[Aethernitas]

I was thinking about adding a small-ish contingent Grey Knights to my Mecha-Vets. Any experience with that mix? Do they complement each other? I'm especially interested how they would fare in Maelstrom type missions.

[Altasmurf]

@ rommel44

If the chimera move it can fire one weapon at full BS and the rest snap shot.

As for armoured sentinels with lascannons, they really aren't the best option, first you have a 50% chance to hit, then you have to penetrate, then you have to hail Mary a 6 to blow something up, otherwise you need 2 more pens. That's assuming the target isn't in cover. Really triple melta vets are your best tank killers. Imho plasma cannon, or autocannon dents are the best as most mech lists have a large quantity of either.

[WarriorFish]

Guard work well with GK, but as GK are super elite and expensive usually better to go Platoons to get the most of the points difference for numbers but Vets will also go well especially if you're all meched up.

 

Sentinels are great, but are best kept cheap. Scout Sentinels should almost always outflank for hilarity always ensues one way or another and Armoured Sentinels go well with mech lists stalking behind your lines with big gun support or advancing with the Chimeras for some cheeky assault distractions.

[march10k]

I like a VERY small GK contingent for my guard...at least in theory.  It's still under construction, but six models are planned, one librarian and five strikes.  The strikes are pretty versatile as either counter-assault (and five models is small enough to hide them behind a tank so they don't get shot) or as a deepstriking distraction.  The real purpose in adding GK allies is daemon insurance.  The pimped libby should be running around with five powers.  If Daemons are present, then five santic powers.  Otherwise, Divination (x4, the 5th one comes from the relic that gives a bonus santic power).  Neither the libby nor the strikes are ever really wasted, and it's about the cheapest GK ally you can get.  If daemons pop, they're a godsend.  I really wouldn't go overboard building a GK deathstar to "supplement" guard, if you go over 500 points, you're doing it wrong!

[Aethernitas]

Guard work well with GK, but as GK are super elite and expensive usually better to go Platoons to get the most of the points difference for numbers but Vets will also go well especially if you're all meched up.

 

Yeah it's an all-Vets force in Chimeras supported by sentinel squads. Right now I'm not using any heavier armour because I have the picture of a very mobile and light patrol-convoy of requisitioned AM Vets in mind. The GKs would be the "cavalry" they call in against opponents they can't handle on their own.

 

I like a VERY small GK contingent for my guard...at least in theory.  It's still under construction, but six models are planned, one librarian and five strikes.  The strikes are pretty versatile as either counter-assault (and five models is small enough to hide them behind a tank so they don't get shot) or as a deepstriking distraction.  The real purpose in adding GK allies is daemon insurance.  The pimped libby should be running around with five powers.  If Daemons are present, then five santic powers.  Otherwise, Divination (x4, the 5th one comes from the relic that gives a bonus santic power).  Neither the libby nor the strikes are ever really wasted, and it's about the cheapest GK ally you can get.  If daemons pop, they're a godsend.  I really wouldn't go overboard building a GK deathstar to "supplement" guard, if you go over 500 points, you're doing it wrong!

 

I guess I'm doing it wrong cuz right now I was thinking about a scriptor and two five man squads of terminators which amounts to about fivehundredsomething points. In contrast to your contingent I meant to use my GKs to face the elite-units that tend to mow through my ranks without me having anything to face them head on. My local meta beeing rather full of AP3 weapons I opted for terminators instead of the cheaper strikes to profit of that extra resilience.

[march10k]

LOL...you're probably fine...until you run into thundernators...GKTs are really really weak against other termies! Anyway, it's not as if I have any actual *experience* supporting my guard with GK, just theories, and these two bad boys:

Clearly, to this point, I know more about painting GKs than I do about fielding them, that's my entire collection right there...okay, and some sprue, lol!

[samueller458]

i keep seeing paskxecutioner and people saying he rerolls gets hot... but i still dont see why he gets the reroll. can someone clarify that for me?

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Pask grants preferred enemy to his squadron which allows you to re-roll "ones" and therefore somewhat mitigates "gets hot".

[Frater Cornelius]

You see, IG have one underlying problem. They lack massively broken combos like the Draigo Star, Wolf Star or othet cheesy builds. Their problem is being balanced.

Having said that, there is one thing IG does best. Obj.Sec. spam. You can get more dudes and reasonsbly tough tanks on the board than most and you can make them fearless for 25pts. If you are facing power gamers, this should be your M.O. Allied with SW for some extra pods and empty pods for veterans and you can saturate the field and throw demo charges like a boss.

 

My 2 teef on IG today :P

[Jacinda]

Pask grants preferred enemy to his squadron

If he is the Warlord and if he is shooting at the codex you picked as the preferred enemy. Granted this will be most of the time for some people, but he has his limitations. His special rule for the Punisher (Rending and re-rolls) is not tied to the Old Grudges warlord trait which is another reason for its popularity.

[librisrouge]

* Leman Russ Varients: Been suggested I go with a Vanquisher, but I have never been a fan of BS Tanks unless it is BS 4 or Twin-Linked, and currently leaning towards either the Demolisher or the Exterminator. 

Trust your feelings. They are strong tanks (those are two of the three best Russ variants imo.)

* Chimeras: Usually I have seen most people stay with the Multilaser turret and I plan to as well, however I am torn on the hull mounted weapon. Heavy Flames are tempting due to all the horde lists out there, and by giving the Chimera a Heavy Stubber, I can still move and fire two weapons at a distance, and when I or my opponent gets close I can torch them. Just a thought as although I like that idea, might be more effective to stay with the Heavy Bolter. Plus I need to confirm that if I only can fire one weapon after moving 6 inches, as I thought I could fire 2 at full BS. 

It depends on whether you plan to advance or not. Melta vets are well served by a heavy flamer chimera but an infantry squad with autocannon wants another heavy bolter.

 

So that answer is MAGNETS. (I must learn to take my own advice.)

* Thunderbolt or Vendetta Gunship? 

Vendetta is tougher, harder hitting, and is a transport. Well worth the added points. A shame really, the thunderbolt is a sweet model and much better in 30k.

* Are Manticors a good option in this edition or no due to the limited shots? 

Still great, just not as good since they cannot one off vehicles. Consider one if your enemy is fond of hiding behind terrain, out of sight.

* Sentinels: Not a great option but I have seen them be useful, either as All-Around flexible with Autocannons and HKM or even with Lascannons or Plasma Cannons. Thoughts? 

You nailed it. Some players have amazing success stories and other, myself, do not. I love the models though and they aren't expensive. Take a few if you have the space.

* Hellhounds: Not seen a lot anymore but would the Devil Dog varient be worth it? 

All of the hellhound variants are useful in a list that doesn't have them going into no mane's land alone. Pair any with meltavets in chimeras for a nice flank attack that can move quickly. The Devil Dog is nice because it has a plasmacannon +1, that straight up murders vehicles. However, it has to get close, hence the need for infantry support.

* Tempted to include Scions in Taurox Primes, as I would give them Missiles and Auto-Cannons for long range Anti-Tank but not sure if I'm honest. 

The Taurox Prime is part of the reason that I don't play Militarum Tempestus as my primary army. Too expensive for what is basically a softer Razorback. One man's opinion though.

Would like to keep this more as a Light Armored Mechanized list, but now a days you need Leman Russ Tanks to do well if your Astra Militarum so keep the feedback coming. 

I own nine Russ analogs (two are Thunderers) so I'm a heavy armor fan (need to get three more and just field two Steel Hosts as an 1850 army.)

I'm sure a few people might disagree with me but I hope that helps a bit. Welcome to His Hammer.