Helias_Tancred Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ok, Baal Predator .... I have never fielded a Baal Predator as part of my Blood Angels army. I tend to be assaulty but lately I've been adding some Rhinos and tactical squads for an armored advance or a gun line. Which version of the Baal Predator do you tend to get the most mileage out of? FYI some of the other units/vehicles I have in my army are a Stormraven (MM, AC, Hurricane bolters), Land Raider Crusader, 2 Razorbacks (HB, TL LC), 2 Rhinos, and 3 pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I don't run a baal with my BA but I've found that the assault cannons and heavy bolters is considered a pretty good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 That's what I was thinking. It seems you'd get more mileage from that loadout, versus the flamestrom cannon and flamers loadout? But ... when the flamer predator hits the enemy lines its gotta be carnage with all those flamer templates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 When I ran a baal I ran it with flamestorm cannon and heavy bolters, so I could get some shooting in before toasting my enemies. I also play in a marine heavy meta, so the AP3 swayed me over the assault cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've never used the flamestorm cannon since it's not a torrent. I don't mind getting close but being inside an enemy unit is too close for a tank with that armor. The Baal generally does well at mulching soft targets. I always take a destructor over a baal if I have the choice though given the points. In larger games I'll run both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I always take a destructor over a baal if I have the choice though given the points.You will always have the points as the destructor is cheaper than the baal, with similar upgrades (overcharged engines on the destructor). 85 for the destructor, 115 for the baal. This topic might also interest you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Assault Cannon with Bolter sponsons is the most mileage if your gonna take it. I bring it to mix it up and for fun, but they never make their points back.. IA stuff is much better, too bad they can't balance FW vs Normal mech esp. for Space Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekellon Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I have one I've never used, but it does well on paper. Mine is full flamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hello, fellow brothers! I do not have too much to add to the thread linked by Quixus. I used to field triple-flamer Baal Predators and I loved the smell of marines roasted alive on 2+ with no saves of any kind allowed. Too bad AV10 rear armour means these beauties are pretty easy to glance to death in CC and AV11 side armour means It is pretty easy to penetrate. The triple-flamer variant was hit like a ton of bricks by losing Scout USR. No more outflank means BP will spend 2 turns lumbering towards the enemy. I doubt BP could drive down the field without being ripped apart. I believe the dakka-dakka variant (TL Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter sponsons) is not a bad option. Compared to the other medium tanks (Predator & Vindicator) It is more effective against infantry, termies, monsters and light tanks because of the sheer volume of fire It brings. And It is fairly effective against heavy tanks (rending) and flyers (TL & rending), too. This variant is flexible. Very effective against certain targets and a threat to (almost) anything. (AV14 around is the exception.) And I just love flexibility. Captain Obvious PS Sickaran is OP like almost any other thing from FW from Land Raider Achilles to Mortis Dreadnaught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 PS Sickaran is OP like almost any other thing from FW from Land Raider Achilles to Mortis Dreadnaught. Going to have to roll my eyes at that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 PS Sickaran is OP like almost any other thing from FW from Land Raider Achilles to Mortis Dreadnaught. Going to have to roll my eyes at that one. Agreed. FW is rarely game breakingly OP. Extremely few things are. Most FW things are generally overpriced for their performance or easily taken out of commission. You can come with an entire army of Achilles and I will laugh at you because the offensive capabilities might seem OK on paper but extremely poor in practice. Sicaran is one of the best balanced things. This is what a SM tank should be. It matches the lore and can hold its own against the variety of Xenos tanks. The Predator is too weak. So yeah, instead of complaining, try to analyse the units and see whether they are just as strong on the board as they seem on paper, because chances are that they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 IMO they should have left Scout on the Baal. It wasn't unbalanced in my experience and gave the Flamestorm Baal a reason to exist. As it is, the only way to run one effectively is the AC/HB sponsons build, and this comes at a premium cost not really reflected in performance. I don't think the Baal is bad, it's just not as good as it should be for its points cost (compare to an Assault Cannon Razorback or Land Speeder Tornado, for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother apocalyptic Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Baal predators are very good tanks, when you roll good... I always run 1 or 2 of those, with AC and HB, most often they perform good. From worst to best performance, in a game, from a single baal it would at worst after rounds of firing a total of 60 bullets, killing a single Grey knights terminator. At best, trashing over 400 pts of Orks over 5 turns of battle. The best parts with baal is that it can keep up with assaulty parts of the army, have good loadout and threathens anything on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 IMO they should have left Scout on the Baal. It wasn't unbalanced in my experience and gave the Flamestorm Baal a reason to exist. As it is, the only way to run one effectively is the AC/HB sponsons build, and this comes at a premium cost not really reflected in performance. I don't think the Baal is bad, it's just not as good as it should be for its points cost (compare to an Assault Cannon Razorback or Land Speeder Tornado, for example).And like those two, It should be a fast attack choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Mercy Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ran a dakka Baal Pred in a 2k game yesterday in a jump pack heavy list and I was happy with its performance. Of course it didn't make its points back, but it did soak up some krak missiles and las, caused a few casualties before being glanced out, and my las Pred went on to survive the whole game. Its a great option to make your opponent pick between front av13 targets. *edit- fargin auto correct is gash dang useless ain't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I never tried the flamer variants and I never play with Baal predators in 7th edition. If you do play with them I prefer the assault cannon / heavy bolter combo. I add a storm bolter and let them hold a flank. Now I prefer vindicators in this codex/edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm disgusted with what GW did to the Baal in the new book. Completely irrelevant now that they are HS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm disgusted with what GW did to the Baal in the new book. Completely irrelevant now that they are HS. As far as I can tell, FA is even more crowded than HS in a typical list. If it was still FA, you'd have even less reason to take it :P But yeah, removing Scout really hurt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'd still prefer it as FA vs. HS. If I have to take two Detachments to free up slots, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 As far as I can tell, FA is even more crowded than HS in a typical list. If it was still FA, you'd have even less reason to take it But yeah, removing Scout really hurt it. When it was a FA choice, it opened up AV13 wall lists (Baal Preds + normal Preds/Vindies). Now I just don't see the point. Normal dakka pred does almost the same anti-infantry job for cheaper and at longer range (ergo, less chances of getting side-shotted). And let's not even go into comparing with fast Vindies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm disgusted with what GW did to the Baal in the new book. Completely irrelevant now that they are HS. As far as I can tell, FA is even more crowded than HS in a typical list. If it was still FA, you'd have even less reason to take it But yeah, removing Scout really hurt it. True, in a way, but it wasnt so much that FA was available, it was just that it wasnt HS, so you could take three baals and three preds or three baals and three vindicators. FA was also available, because it only had speeders, bikes and VanVets(?), but that wasnt the primary draw. With 6 AV13s, your Tactical Rhinos were a lot easier to defend, throw in some AV13 Dreads in pods and you could conceivably have 10 AV13 vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 PS Sickaran is OP like almost any other thing from FW from Land Raider Achilles to Mortis Dreadnaught. Going to have to roll my eyes at that one. Agreed. FW is rarely game breakingly OP. Extremely few things are. Most FW things are generally overpriced for their performance or easily taken out of commission. You can come with an entire army of Achilles and I will laugh at you because the offensive capabilities might seem OK on paper but extremely poor in practice. Sicaran is one of the best balanced things. This is what a SM tank should be. It matches the lore and can hold its own against the variety of Xenos tanks. The Predator is too weak. So yeah, instead of complaining, try to analyse the units and see whether they are just as strong on the board as they seem on paper, because chances are that they are not. Listen to the man. Predator is fine - Sicaran is OP. Predator is too weak - Sicaran is balanced. Different words, same meaning. In case your playgroup is fine with FW (mine is more than reluctant), bring a Sicaran instead of Baal Predator, Predator or Vindicator. If not, all three are fine additions to your army. Which one is the best, depends on the enemy. Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 So if the Baal's Flamestorm Cannon had Torrent, would the Baal be more competitive? Barring any other changes to the tank . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Torrent would make it the easy choice. Personally I hate the loss of scout. I had a lot of fun outflanking triple flamers ones last edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 PS Sickaran is OP like almost any other thing from FW from Land Raider Achilles to Mortis Dreadnaught.Going to have to roll my eyes at that one. Agreed. FW is rarely game breakingly OP. Extremely few things are. Most FW things are generally overpriced for their performance or easily taken out of commission. You can come with an entire army of Achilles and I will laugh at you because the offensive capabilities might seem OK on paper but extremely poor in practice. Sicaran is one of the best balanced things. This is what a SM tank should be. It matches the lore and can hold its own against the variety of Xenos tanks. The Predator is too weak. So yeah, instead of complaining, try to analyse the units and see whether they are just as strong on the board as they seem on paper, because chances are that they are not. Listen to the man. Predator is fine - Sicaran is OP. Predator is too weak - Sicaran is balanced. Different words, same meaning. In case your playgroup is fine with FW (mine is more than reluctant), bring a Sicaran instead of Baal Predator, Predator or Vindicator. If not, all three are fine additions to your army. Which one is the best, depends on the enemy. Captain Obvious It is not the same. Sicaran is balanced compared to mainstream armour of other factions while the Predator can not compete. This is not solely about the power difference between Sicaran and Pred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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