SyNidus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Okay, so the title may be a lil misleading...I'm just wondering, do you guys have any ideas on how a GK army may be able to face an imperial knight adamantium Lance formation? Will need to know this in preparation for an upcoming tourney. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Pure GKs? So no Melter-anything? No Vets, no Scions and no Henchman? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Stormravens. All the stormravens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Dreadknights, lots of them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 This is going to be a no-holds-barred 1500 tourney, no unbound though. Personally, I'm thinking of bringing in a stormwing formation: Â My army will look like so: Â NSF: Librarian - ML3 - Combi-Melta, Hammer, Liber Daemonica - 175 Terminator Squad - 5 man - Psycannon, Justi w Hammer - 190 Interceptor Squad - 5 man - Incinerator, Justi w Teleport Homer, Hammer - 155 Dread Knight - Teleporter, H.Psycannon, Sword, G.Psilencer - 235 Dread Knight - Teleporter, H.Psycannon, Hammer, G.Psilencer - 230 Stormwing Formation: Stormtalon - TLAC & TLLC - 140 Stormtalon - TLAC & TLLC - 140 Stormraven - TLMM & TLLC, Hr. Bolters, Extra Armour - 235 Total: 1500 Model Count: 16 Â Â The termies will and Libby will be in the Raven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 That looks like a list I would play... minus the hammer on the Libby. Â I've often thought of making the Stormwing formation for the Grey Knights as it fills a lot of holes. The biggest issue is the reserve rolls.... but I haven't tried it yet, but again, I'd definitely try this list out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I agree with your list, although I would drop the Libby's Hammer for Melta Bombs. The Staff is too good. Also, never put Hammers on Justicars; it's our hidden power fist, so hidding it from challenges is better than getting an extra attack at Initiative 1. Â SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Yea, that's the other thing... Â Although I know you've been using your GK's for a while so I assume it is your preference, however I stopped using Hammers on Justicars... just too annoying to lose them in challenges. Â Also forgot to mention something I just stopped doing but I see you've got it in the list: Gatling Psilencer. Very cool. Situational, but I do enjoy a good 'force' pop once in a while. It's just the flamer is so darn good against open topped vehicles. That's why I went back to it. (are you going to see many Necron lists? Because there's a good argument for Psilencers AND Incinerators in that case, which is interesting.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Iapetus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 If the lance formation is the biggest concern for the tourney - I'd go this way:  Librarian w/ Hammer  Termie squad, 1 Psycannon 1 Hammer Termie squad, 1 Psycannon 1 Hammer  StormRaven - TLMM, TLLC StormRaven - TLMM, TLLC  Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon  1490 points  Put the termies into the SR, or DS if you're feeling lucky... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4006848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 Now that is an awesome looking list. Only problem is i don't have 2 stormravens which i am willing to paint in GK colours. Even the stormwing formation will be kept in their original Raven Guard livery. Although, I could paint up one of the ravens to add into the list by his lonesome. Spend the rest of the points to get another 5 interceptors to combat squad because the missions are going to be maelstrom. Â Was thinking about it, and the knights are probably the biggest threat really. Everything else I can probably handle. Though a third dreadknight wouldn't be a bad idea. Â I'm thinking the Stormtalons might help when it comes to capturing objectives. Should I go with the 1 stormraven and more interceptors? Or the stormwing formation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4007434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 With the talons, don't you have to pay the standard ally tax hq and troop before you can do the formation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4007437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Nope. It's an astartes formation. People kinda slag the talon but honestly they have been great for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4007448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I haven't been able to find the rule, is there any way you can cite it please? I've thought about this formation before but been told if its not in your Dex you can't take it as a normal formation like its all gk. I haven't been able to find the rule to prove em wrong Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4007471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I've dropped ad lance twice (both with SM allies), and fought all kinds of lists with knights in them. Here's my typical 1500pts list:  Inquisition primary ordo malleus inquisitor w/ power armor, 3x servo skulls, force sword, masterly level 1  1x bolter acolytes, 3x melta acolytes, psyker, psyback  1x bolter acolytes, 3x plasma acolytes, psyker, psyback  3x bolter acolytes, psyker, psyback  GK NSF ML2 libby  5x terminators w/ 4x halberds, hammer, psycannon  5x purifers w/ 2x psycannons, rhino  5x purifers w/ 2x psycannons, rhino  dreadknight w/ teleporter, greatsword, heavy psycannon, heavy incinerator  dreadknight w/ teleporter, greatsword, heavy psycannon, gatling psilencer  Anything that can deep strike goes in reserve. Usually, going second is advantageous here, as it forces the knights to move up to get in range with the melta cannon. This leaves the battle cannons and allies to do the heavy lifting to pop the rhinos, and generally doesn't do much to worry about. Let the knights move towards you, ideally in psycannon range. When the dreadknights and terminators come in, place them on the flank of the knights, ideally making the charge range as long as possible for the knight while still keeping your guns in range. Now no matter where he puts the shields, you should be able to get through them. If he didn't take the bait and move towards you, this is good. Now you can move up a little safer as you have some pressure on his flank. Knights really need to kill something every turn to be efficient and every turn he doesn't is a good turn for you. Charge a dreadknight in (just one) and if you took a couple hull points from shooting, you should be able to drop it. If you don't and subsequently die, it should be on it's last leg and the next round of fire should kill it. Assaulting on your terms is key, as they need to happen when it's advantageous for you, and not your opponent. My inquisition units really don't do much in this list. Occasionally, the psybacks will chip a hull point of the side, but usually I use them to hurt my opponents allies and score objectives at the end of the game. A pure GK force can do this too, it just won't MSU as well as mine does. I hope this gives a little insight into how my list works and how I beat ad lance. It's a pain, but not unbeatable by any means. At 1500pts, I feel ad lance is actually at a big disadvantage, as you don't have a lot of room for a strong ally presence.  I haven't been able to find the rule, is there any way you can cite it please? I've thought about this formation before but been told if its not in your Dex you can't take it as a normal formation like its all gk. I haven't been able to find the rule to prove em wrong A formation is just another type of detachment (like allies). The stormwing is an army of the imperium, and therefore battle brothers with us. There is no reason why you can't take it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4007500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 thunder hammers and hammer hand Lots and lots , also keep a libby with sanctury and dragio around to soak up the retaliation Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 thunder hammers and hammer hand Lots and lots , also keep a libby with sanctury and dragio around to soak up the retaliation  Exactly that. We don't really need dedicated tankbuster against knights - it just comes down to the sixes the Knight player rolls on his attacks and on his stomp. The scaling on the Destroyer weapon and stomp charts is so freaking ridiculous:  1: Nothing happens 2-5: reasonable result but still powerful 6: UTTER ANNIHILATION OVERKILL DEATH RESULT OF DOOM!!!!111! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Â I haven't been able to find the rule, is there any way you can cite it please? I've thought about this formation before but been told if its not in your Dex you can't take it as a normal formation like its all gk. I haven't been able to find the rule to prove em wrong A formation is just another type of detachment (like allies). The stormwing is an army of the imperium, and therefore battle brothers with us. There is no reason why you can't take it. Â Â I concur, but doesn't this mean you need an ally tax aswell, or can you straight up take a unit not in your dex with out an ally attachment because its a formation for those who do have it in their dex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 formations are their own mini detachment you can take a formation from any other dex the only thing you have to abide by is the allies matrix for example  if you wanted to take say  Arjac Shield brothers  formation you  have your NSF detachment then your next detachment would be the formation  itself Arjac Shield Brothers  since Grey Knights and Space Wolves are battle brothers everything is fineAnother way to put it is Company of the Great wolf Detachment - Primary Detachment Adamantine Lance Formation  = Perfectly legal , battleforged list  FWUHAHAHAAHAHAH Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 formations are their own mini detachment you can take a formation from any other dex the only thing you have to abide by is the allies matrix for example if you wanted to take say Arjac Shield brothers formation you have your NSF detachment then your next detachment would be the formation itself Arjac Shield Brothers since Grey Knights and Space Wolves are battle brothers everything is fine  Another way to put it is  Company of the Great wolf Detachment - Primary Detachment  Adamantine Lance Formation   = Perfectly legal , battleforged list FWUHAHAHAAHAHAH OK that makes more sense. Appreciate it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 As a Knight player, but not a GK player - do you have anything that can do damage in close combat? The Lance's main benefit, to the Ion Shield, only works for shooting. To use it, the Knights have to remain relatively close. Dangerously close, even - at that range, one going down has a good chance of knocking a few hull points off the others. Â Just a thought! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Now that is an awesome looking list. Only problem is i don't have 2 stormravens which i am willing to paint in GK colours. Even the stormwing formation will be kept in their original Raven Guard livery. Although, I could paint up one of the ravens to add into the list by his lonesome. Spend the rest of the points to get another 5 interceptors to combat squad because the missions are going to be maelstrom. Â Was thinking about it, and the knights are probably the biggest threat really. Everything else I can probably handle. Though a third dreadknight wouldn't be a bad idea. Â I'm thinking the Stormtalons might help when it comes to capturing objectives. Should I go with the 1 stormraven and more interceptors? Or the stormwing formation? Â Make sure you know if the hovering flyers will allow scoring in your respective tournament before making the decision. Â Personally? I think 2 flyers and the 3 NDK list is ace... however even empty, Â I feel reluctant to put 400 pts of a 1500 point list into reserve when your numbers are going to be so small (Your termies/NDK's will get the bejesus focused out of them.) Â I like the Talon formation, but it has the same issue.... so the dual Stormraven list is probably better, however I would play it cautious, and swap out the third NDK for a Comms relay/Aegis. This might allow you to beef something else up BUT it also allows you to go back to a Nemesis Strike Force, potentially gating and running... etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Â Â Now that is an awesome looking list. Only problem is i don't have 2 stormravens which i am willing to paint in GK colours. Even the stormwing formation will be kept in their original Raven Guard livery. Although, I could paint up one of the ravens to add into the list by his lonesome. Spend the rest of the points to get another 5 interceptors to combat squad because the missions are going to be maelstrom. Â Was thinking about it, and the knights are probably the biggest threat really. Everything else I can probably handle. Though a third dreadknight wouldn't be a bad idea. Â I'm thinking the Stormtalons might help when it comes to capturing objectives. Should I go with the 1 stormraven and more interceptors? Or the stormwing formation? Make sure you know if the hovering flyers will allow scoring in your respective tournament before making the decision. Â Personally? I think 2 flyers and the 3 NDK list is ace... however even empty, I feel reluctant to put 400 pts of a 1500 point list into reserve when your numbers are going to be so small (Your termies/NDK's will get the bejesus focused out of them.) Â I like the Talon formation, but it has the same issue.... so the dual Stormraven list is probably better, however I would play it cautious, and swap out the third NDK for a Comms relay/Aegis. This might allow you to beef something else up BUT it also allows you to go back to a Nemesis Strike Force, potentially gating and running... etc. Hovering Flyers are treated as scoring, so there's no issue there really. Hence the stormwing wouldn't be a bad idea because I'll have extra units to score with. Â Hmm, those are fair points man. I'm reluctant to go full-bore into the anti-knight mode, there will be other opponents, strangely not very diverse. It's a 24 man event, the armies they've got are as so: 1 Orks, 1 Tau, 2 Eldar (Iyanden), 1 Dark Eldar (Coven), 2 Imperial Knights, 5 C:SM, 3 Blood Angels, 2 Khorne Daemonkin, 1 CSM, 1 AM, 2 Necrons, 1 Tyranid, 1 Space Wolves. Â I've heard that there'll a Thunderhawk there. I know the Ork player will be bringing his stompa. The Knights will be playing Admantium lance and possibly assassins allies. I would've played my Raven Guard, but I just don't have the time right now to be painting them, plus i'm actually having tons of fun running these small lists. I know for most other opponents, I'd be able to face them. The eldar may give me trouble with their mobility but i know at least 1 of the eldar players is quite bad. The other eldar player runs double Wraithknights. The AM player i have faced before in the previous tourney (I'll do a report of that soon enough), and I narrowly snatched victory right from under his nose, but Draigo scattered 12" off the objective which he was gating onto. He runs conscript blobs. Â Of the space marines, 1 will be White Scars, another will be Imperial Fists, another is Raven Guard, the other 2 are still undecided i think. I'm not really worried about the blood angels or Khorne Daemonkin. Even the CSM aren't really worrying. Necrons are still worrying. Â Here's a tweak on the list: Â NSF: Librarian - ML3 - Combi-Melta, Staff, Liber Daemonica, Melta Bomb - 175 Terminator Squad - 10 man - 2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers - 380 Interceptor Squad - 5 man - Incinerator, Justi w Teleport Homer, Hammer - 155 Stormraven - TLMM & TLLC, Hr. Bolters, Extra Armour - 235 Dread Knight - Teleporter, H.Psycannon, Sword, G.Psilencer - 235 Dread Knight - Teleporter, H.Psycannon, Hammer, G.Psilencer - 230 ADL - Comms Relay - 70 Total: 1480 Model Count: 20 Â What do you reckon? I don't like going in without Draigo...Not having that Gate of Infinity and Purge Soul (used it to snipe a priest in a conscript blob, allowing me run them off the board) makes me feel a lil naked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I think your tweaked list is 'safer' or perhaps more... conservative for tournament play. Â I honestly can't give advice on facing knights, but let me ask this- with Sanctuary running on NDK's, can't they box them down? Â Secondly I keep mulling over the Gatling Psilencers. They're more expensive than the Heavy Incinerators... but more importantly against open topped vehicles I love H. Incinerators. But the Psilencers are very good when they have the right target, it just seems fewer and further between. What's your take on them? Â Thirdly, How do you not have your Raven Guard ready to go?? I thought they were your main force? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4008979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'd recommend an H Incinerator on the Sword DK, drop the Hurricanes and the ADL, and add 5 more Interceptors. Should work out to 1500 on the nose, and give you another combat squad to claim objectives and/or harass enemies. Go Sanctic on the Libby, fish for Gate. If you get Gate, Reserve two 5man GKTs for T1 DS, and start the rest on the table. Use the Libby to Gate his squad forward. If you don't get Gate, attach the Libby to one of the Reservesed GKT squads. Â But that's just me. Â SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4009157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 I think your tweaked list is 'safer' or perhaps more... conservative for tournament play. Â I honestly can't give advice on facing knights, but let me ask this- with Sanctuary running on NDK's, can't they box them down? Â Secondly I keep mulling over the Gatling Psilencers. They're more expensive than the Heavy Incinerators... but more importantly against open topped vehicles I love H. Incinerators. But the Psilencers are very good when they have the right target, it just seems fewer and further between. What's your take on them? Â Thirdly, How do you not have your Raven Guard ready to go?? I thought they were your main force? Â Â 1. Problem with that is that they will likely be taking multiple wounds. I don't know how many 4 pluses I can make. Â 2. I personally really like the psilencers, and I foresee them being useful against tougher multi-wound models. For example, the DE coven player will have a blob of grotesques. Every insta-kill wound I cause is a model down, which will really be necessary, like-wise for bugs. Although, I can definitely see a case for the incinerator. If only the incinerator had force! Â 3. I do...sort of. My old drop pod list is painted up. Though I don't know how it will fare in this edition, haven't actually played it! My other lists see me playing mostly primed models because I've been so busy IRL. Though perhaps it's time to break out my old pod list... Â I'd recommend an H Incinerator on the Sword DK, drop the Hurricanes and the ADL, and add 5 more Interceptors. Should work out to 1500 on the nose, and give you another combat squad to claim objectives and/or harass enemies. Go Sanctic on the Libby, fish for Gate. If you get Gate, Reserve two 5man GKTs for T1 DS, and start the rest on the table. Use the Libby to Gate his squad forward. If you don't get Gate, attach the Libby to one of the Reservesed GKT squads. But that's just me. SJ That sounds pretty awesome actually. I'd rather drop the ADL too because I'm just not a fan of fortifications. Those are great tips Jeff.. I can't change the psilencer for incinerator because I've glued it on, but I reckon I'll need those anyway. For the stormraven's turret weapon, would you guys recommend Lascannon or assault Cannon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306057-david-vs-gerantius-or-how-i-learned-to-smite-the-knight/#findComment-4009259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.