Militarium tempestus army

[xXxVATIKINxXx]

Is it possible to have militarium tempestus army of storm troopers and still be competitive? Let's say a starting point of 1000pts

[Rommel44]

To start off, this probably should be in the general discussion and not the army list. As for your question, you could make an army from the Militarum Tempestus Codex but I don't think it would be pretty competitive. Reason is because although stormtroopers are good what you get for them, they only have a 4 + armor save and the hot shot last gun is only strength 3.You could run the Taurox Prime formation from their codex but then that will be pretty much your army, as they are expensive to run.

[WarriorFish]

I agree Rommel, I'm moving it as such. It definitely is possible, Scions are a glass hammer but it just means you need to play clever. I'll leave the exact details to the experts

[xXxVATIKINxXx]

Thanks for moving my post. Back to the topic. Help needed!

[Kilofix]

I think the main thing is that MTs are not very TAC (take all comers), require precise application of tactics and some luck.

 

They do extremely well against some lists and do very badly against other lists. And luck can totally make or ruin your plans (specifically Deep Strike Scatter, Plasma Gets Hot rolls and Ld Tests).

 

They're win big, lose big. Kinda like Dark Eldar.

 

For example:

 

Playing against Grey Knights, with good luck you manage to Deep Strike your all Plasma MT squads close and wipe out 80% of his models before he even gets to retaliate;

vs;

Playing against Tau, with bad luck you Deep Strike Scatter too far away and get shot to bits before you get in range or 50% of your Plasma die to Gets Hot;

Etc.

 

But I like playing them because those risks and payoffs make them fun for me.

[WarriorFish]

I think that's the best way of putting it Kilo. With limited options you will inevitably struggle in places but such is the nature of the game anyway as no list can surmount all possible opposing lists. So what does it matter that your codex can deal with fewer variations than most? Just makes your victories all the more glorious ;) Plus as mentioned the Stormie army is a law unto itself in awesomeness :D

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I have found that the Militarum Tempestus book works well when supported by allies. I usaully go with some kind of space marines, or regular AM and a knight. I'm thinking of using my Dark Angels to support my tempestus, when I want Marines. They lack anti-vehicle firepower, so that's a big concern since valks can't do it. They need help in the range department, as well as needing heavier guns.

[march10k]

Stormtroopers do okay on their own when you give them a firestorm redoubt with a pair of battle cannons on it...that really helps in the ranged firepower department.  As for anti-vehicle firepower, I'm not sold they're hurting.  They have deepstriking 5 man squads with dual melta for 90 points each...that's something a lot of other armies would kill for.  They also have autocannons on their taurox primes, and autocannons aren't exactly common in the meta...autocannons are ACES for popping anything up to and including AV12.  

 

Would I recommend playing stormtroopers on their own?  Absolutely not!  It's totally doable, but why ask for pain you don't need?  LOL.

[captain sox]

Try allies with Astra Militarum and run some Veterans in Carapace and Chimeras. Maybe some Sentinels etc. On thier own, it would be tough. If you look in the Space Marine forum, there are a few people who run pure 10th Company armies. It can be done, but the tactics are very different. 

 

:)

[steellegionnaire85]

So if I took guard as my primary detachment and allied either stormtrooper detachment and my warlord trait allows d3 units outflank could I nominate the stormtrooper detachment to outflank? Do you see where I am going with this if you took two command squads and took two officers of fleet almost guaranteed turn two outflank valkyries or tauroxes with twin linked and pinning weapons first turn dismounted. Dirty guardsmen?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

As long as the dice gods favor you, yes possibly. But, if you're putting your Stormies in reserve, why not just deep strike them, and have the chance to put them wherever you like? Outflank is unreliable, they could end up coming in on a board edge that puts them too far from the fight to do any good, and you spend the rest of the game trying to get them in. Without Acute Senses giving you re-rolls, you'd be stuck. On the other hand, you have move through cover which lets you pass difficult terrain tests, which means scattering into terrain and buildings won't affect you at all, and deep striking out of the transports won't kill the unit if you scatter.

 

I heard someone say that move through cover gives you a re-roll to the scatter, I couldn't find that in the rules anywhere, if someone has a reference for this let me know.

 

I'd say it's just better to deep strike them, rather than outflank them. Personally, Stormies are my primary Detachment, supported by some regular guard and a knight, and a BC vengeance battery.  

[steellegionnaire85]

Look at the benefits of the ground pounding detachment twin linked and pinning first dismount

[Rommel44]

Just depends 9x what you want to do, but remember, your armies goal is to get as close as possible to your opponent and you have plenty of range, just have to build your Taurox Primes correctly. Here is a quick list for and example:

 

* Lord Commissar:

-w/Power Sword, BP, Carapace Armor, MB.

 

* Command Squad :

- w/Medic, 3x Hot-Shot Volley Guns, Taurox Prime w/Autocannons, Missile Launcher, Searchlight.

 

* 4x Tempestus Squads:

-w/Sgt. w/CCW, Hot-Shot Laspistol, 2x Plasma Guns, 7x Hot-Shot Lasguns, Taurox Prime w/Hot-Shot Volley Gun, Gatling Cannon, Searchlight.

 

* 2x Tempestus Squads:

-w/Sgt. w/CCW, Hot-Shot Laspistol, 2x

Melta Guns, 7x Hot-Shot Lasguns, Taurox Prime w/Autocannon, Missile Launcher, Searchlight.

 

* Valkyrie:

-w/Lascannon, Hellstrike Missiles, Fighter Ace (Only thing I could think of to use up the extra points).

 

Total: 1997 points.

[march10k]

I heard someone say that move through cover gives you a re-roll to the scatter, I couldn't find that in the rules anywhere, if someone has a reference for this let me know.

Ooh, are we starting rumors? I heard that the 'grav chute commandoes' warlord trait has been errata-ed to eliminate scatter

[Altasmurf]

@ Ulrik

 

The reference to move through cover has more to do wtih the fact that if stormies land in difficult terrain or scatter out the back of a valkyrie they automatically pass the dangerouse terrain test.

 

As for the Tempestus it seems the orders are key, as they give the tempestus the ability to deal with any target. The army seems some what glass hammer like. Use your speed to pick you spots and then hit hard and move out. It's an army of special forces and it plays like it.

[Kontakt]

* Valkyrie:

-w/Lascannon, Hellstrike Missiles, Fighter Ace (Only thing I could think of to use up the extra points).

Unfortunately, Fighter Ace is not in the scion codex. IIRC it is only available to standard guard.

I have had limited success running the scions as a primary force. However, using the ground assault formation has proven to be very powerful, IF it arrives as reinforcements to another, more durable army. Like marines in drop pods. Or a knight, with marines in drop pods (no the knight isn't in the drop pod ) As soon as I finish up my 4th valkyrie, I would love to report my success of using the aerial assault formation. The rocket pods seem like the answer to my problems dealing with masses of orks or guardsmen.

[march10k]

Fighter ace is not in C:AM, either...it's a FW rule.  As such, if it's available at all, it's equally available to AM and ST.

[Rommel44]

That's what I thought as well but thanks for clarifying that. As for me personally, I am leaning more towards the Death Korps of Krieg Assault Brigade then the Militarum Tempestus Codex. Granted there are some drawbacks in terms of being a bit more expensive and nit so much BS4, however not only can I get Chimeras with Autocannon turrets, but I have a lot more flexibility in the sense that I can also take Leman Russ battle tanks, Rapier Death Lasers, and Forgeworld Flyers such as the Thunderbolt. To me they can make a more effective stormtrooper list then the current Militarum Tempestus Codex. Just my two cents.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

According to Battlescribe, the latest rules for Fighter ace come from the shield of baal supplement.

[march10k]

I think they're also in IA: Aeronautica.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

It's not bad rules wise, I'd rather have +1 BS than +1 armor, but the 12" fearless bubble is nice. I'd say take it if you have some points left over,  personally I'd rather use those points for something else.

[Rommel44]

Fighter Ace rule aside, it will struggle against some lists but it can be pretty dang competitive. I recently had a change of heart as I played a few games with this list and needless to say I was surprised with the results as not only did I win all my games, I won soundly and most of them. They can be a good list, however if you do run them go with the Taurox Primes and the formation if you want. Granted they are light vehicles, but they are all fast and can dish out a ton of firepower which is a good thing. In the end it's up to you but they can be competitive and so far I am loving them, just took me awhile to find a good way to feel them and they work well in my meta as there are a lot of marine players so they AP3 is pretty awesome.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I use elysian drop troops as allies for my tempestus, giving me a nice group of troops (3 MG/PG, depending, a HF, and six lasguns) to kill a lot of stuff. Plus it gives me the fliers I want, One comes on first turn, and I get my Taurox primes to stack the firepower. Add a Vindicare Assassin and a Knight, it becomes a disgusting slaughterfest. 

[Kontakt]

Funny how the ability to ally in other imperial forces means many of us have 3 or 4 codexes and always try to fit at least 2 of them in a list. Scions of course, almost require another force to fill the gaps they have.

[Altasmurf]

I think some of these mini books really are designed for ally play, that's why the limited units and selections. Even more so the tempestus. While you can tackle most other armies with the storm troopers they can't always do it efficiently. Even look at the formations, both are designed around being the last minute cavalry busting in and engaging specific threats. Really the scalpel to the imperial guard's sledgehammer. They play like romanticized special forces, move in, engage, and fall back. Holding ground really isn't going to happen with short ranged infantry weapons and T3 with a 4+ save. But use the ground formation with your guard army and you can hit pin point objectives move and leave blobs or chimeras to hold ground.