Strike squad madness

[ChaoticEric]

Has anyone tried fielding mass gk power armour as a shooty list?

 

The thought struck me the other day that in the sweetspot within 24" but outside of rapid fire the storm bolter fielded by the humble strike squad is actually quite a force.

 

250pts should buy a strike squad of ten with a hammer and two psycannons. How about taking three of these and perhaps a full purgation squad with four psycannons and two dreadknights for support? It comes in at about 1500pts and only needs an HQ to be a CAD. One could also try to fit it into one or two nemesis strike forces, combat squad every squad with psycannons in one (which are deployed on the table at the start) and deep strike the others with the hammers to take it to the enemy.

 

That should equal 32 storm bolters (64 shots), 10 psycannons (40 shots when stationary, S7/rending is not to be easily dismissed) not counting the dreadknights. It's a shooty army with two dreadknights that can take on whatever the storm bolters/psycannons can't handle and it won't fall to pieces in an assault like for example tau does.

 

I actually think it can be a fun army to play :)

 

After taking inventory I think I have enough PA to try this list with some proxying of weapons, I might try it...

[Prot]

I like it. I am probably 20 dudes short of trying it, and we play 1850 so probably more, but I would try it... I've thought of something similar, but too addicted to Termies at the moment. What would you use for the HQ?

[Aethernitas]

been there, done that and what I would strongly advise you to do is add a rhino to each squad you take. See it as an 35pts upgrade for your squads to give them much needed mobility, block LoS, block charges, tankshocking opponents into-flamer friendly patterns, score objectives with objective secured (rly no reason to field that kind of army as NSF) and so on and so fourth.

 

Yes you probably will give up first blood with one of those Rhinos but don't worry about it as first blood is extremely overrated and with this kind of army you are playing for primary objectives anyway.

[ChaoticEric]

I like it. I am probably 20 dudes short of trying it, and we play 1850 so probably more, but I would try it... I've thought of something similar, but too addicted to Termies at the moment. What would you use for the HQ?

Probably a librarian for extra wc and the chance to pull vortex or cleansing flame.

 

Perhaps it's better to skip the psycannons on the strike squad to keep them more mobile (or take incinerators) and instead take two or three five man purgation squads with four psycannons each?

[ChaoticEric]

been there, done that and what I would strongly advise you to do is add a rhino to each squad you take. See it as an 35pts upgrade for your squads to give them much needed mobility, block LoS, block charges, tankshocking opponents into-flamer friendly patterns, score objectives with objective secured (rly no reason to field that kind of army as NSF) and so on and so fourth.

 

Yes you probably will give up first blood with one of those Rhinos but don't worry about it as first blood is extremely overrated and with this kind of army you are playing for primary objectives anyway.

But does it really need mobility? If I face an assault army I want to hang back and let them come to me, if I face an army that can outshoot me I'd deep strike the strike squads in their deployment zone.

 

Blocking line of sight is needed though of course.

[Aethernitas]

You can always just move the rhinos in the movement phase, shoot and park them back where they were afterwards. 35pts feel like such a low cost for a ton of utility.

[jeffersonian000]

Yeah, you really need Rhinos to make PAGK work in numbers. The ablative hull points add to MSU survivability, making a 10man squad four times harder to remove. Which is about the only good thing you can say about Rhinos.

 

SJ

[Aethernitas]

Yeah, you really need Rhinos to make PAGK work in numbers. The ablative hull points add to MSU survivability, making a 10man squad four times harder to remove. Which is about the only good thing you can say about Rhinos.

 

SJ

 

For 35pts thats actually quite effective no matter what people say.

[ChaoticEric]

Have to think about the rhinos but how about the following for a list;

NSF #1

 

ML3 librarian

 

3 * 10 man strike squads with 2 hammers and 2 psycannons

 

2 dreadknights with sword, teleporter, incinerator and psycannon

 

NSF #2

 

ML3 librarian

 

5 man strike squad with hammer and incinerator

 

5 man purgation squad with 4 psycannons

 

Should come in around 1800pts

 

Combat squad all the strike squads with hammers in one unit and psycannons in the other. Hammers deep strike and push together with shunting dreadknights, psycannons hang out on the back and shoot as much as possible. Put librarians in a hammer strike squad each and hope for vortex/cleansing to add firepower. If facing an assault army you can screen psycannons with hammer squads and shoot as much as possible before counter-charging with hammer squads. As storm bolters are assault and psycannons won't charge you get full power shooting even on turn when counter-charging.

 

30 storm bolters (60 shots), 10 psycannons (40 shots if stationary, S7/rending), 2 heavy psycannons (12 shots S7/rending), 2 heavy incinerators, 30 nemesis force swords, 7 hammers and 16 warp charges...

[Rurik the blessed]

You can always just move the rhinos in the movement phase, shoot and park them back where they were afterwards. 35pts feel like such a low cost for a ton of utility.

 

how can you do this? if you shoot, then you can't make your way back

[ChaoticEric]

 

You can always just move the rhinos in the movement phase, shoot and park them back where they were afterwards. 35pts feel like such a low cost for a ton of utility.

 

 

how can you do this? if you shoot, then you can't make your way back

Flat out?

[Rurik the blessed]

but you already shoot. you can't do both? do you?

[ChaoticEric]

but you already shoot. you can't do both? do you?

I think the squad shoots, not the rhino.

 

Rhino parked in front of squad.

Movement phase; move rhino out of LoS

Shooting phase; shoot with squad then flat out rhino back in front of squad.

[Aethernitas]

 

but you already shoot. you can't do both? do you?

I think the squad shoots, not the rhino.

 

Rhino parked in front of squad.

Movement phase; move rhino out of LoS

Shooting phase; shoot with squad then flat out rhino back in front of squad.

 

 

That's exactly what I wanted to say. Thx Eric

[Captain Coolpants]

This used to be the only way that I played grey knights back in the day of psybolts and good psycannons, each with a rhino, but then you realise, when they get charged, they fail mmmmmiserably. With only 1 attack each, so then you compensate with falchions and stuff, then you realise that you can't afford the heavy weapons or the rhino anymore. Or if you go up against an actual shooty list, the best thing to do is get In combat (which you won't be upgraded for)

[Aethernitas]

This used to be the only way that I played grey knights back in the day of psybolts and good psycannons, each with a rhino, but then you realise, when they get charged, they fail mmmmmiserably. With only 1 attack each, so then you compensate with falchions and stuff, then you realise that you can't afford the heavy weapons or the rhino anymore. Or if you go up against an actual shooty list, the best thing to do is get In combat (which you won't be upgraded for)

 

Can't outshoot the shooty armies. Can't beat the assault armies. We can however outdo anything inbetween not as specialized. What we have here is exactly the sweetspot that makes GK such a finely tuneable weapon :D

[IndigoJack]

We may not be able to out-shoot shooting armies, but we out assault them. And we may not be able to out-assault assault armies, but we out shoot them. This is one out the things I really like about GKs. Our middle ground makes us quite flexible in the hands of a good general

[Prot]

I too think multi Rhino's are going to be key. Even Las/plas razorbacks might be worth testing with the lack of NDK's. Just food for thought.

[Mal Luck]

Have you considered using full Purifier squads, CS'ing 4x psycannons into one group for a pseudo purgatation squad whilst the other five advance? Whilst you'd lose the ability to deepstrike them, you'd not be required to take multiple detachments, would gain more warp charges, additional attacks and the very useful cleansing flames.

[Aethernitas]

From my experience 'objective secured' is a lot more valuable in this type of army than it would be in a NSF-like army composition therefore I would take Strikes over Purifier even though they are slightly less effective point for point. It also frees more points for rhinos.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Strike squad spam is a terrible idea and will fail miserably against even a half-decent enemy. 

[Aethernitas]

Strike squad spam is a terrible idea and will fail miserably against even a half-decent enemy. 

 

You know whats also a terrible idea? Preaching the same dogmas again and again that may only hold true for your local meta while in the same sentence devaluing the gaming groups of everyone that may disagree by saying that their opponents can't even be decent players if they can't handle Strike squad spam.

 

All you accomplish with that is that you keep people lurking that may otherwise contribute to a constructive discussion and subsequently smother input and ideas that could enrich the gaming experience.

[Captain Coolpants]

Strike squad spam is a terrible idea and will fail miserably against even a half-decent enemy.

when I first joined this site, you were ever optimistic, and always had good input on things, but I've seen you devolve into an ever saltier sally. I don't play truly competitive games (everyone says casual games aren't competitive, but they all play to win) But I still have fun playing my knights, and although my winning percentage is only ever around half now, I still find it enjoyable. So what's up man?

Maybe you're a little bored? Maybe pick up a second or 3rd (or however many you have) army to release you from this stagnated pool of sadness you have for Le silver dudes. ☺

[Gentlemanloser]

MSU Strikes *were* awesome.  Hot damn, I ruined folk with masses of them (with Rhinos).

 

But.

 

That was back in the day with;

 

Power Weapons trumping all Armour Saves in CC

No Hull Points on Rhinos, and they had Fortitude

Psycannons had an Assult mode and weren't Salvo mobility traps on PA dudes.

 

The strikes of today are former shadows of thier previous glory.  And really have little standing out for them, apart from they're a 'cheap' (in codex only) option.

 

Subjectiveness aside.  Fun, experience, 'meta' (ugh I hate the use of that word) all ignored.  As who are we to evaluate them.  Subjectiveness aside, Strikes just aren't a good unit.

 

You can still have fun using them.  You can still win matches.

 

But I wouldn't recommend them for anything.  Not any more.

 

 

 

but I've seen you devolve into an ever saltier sally

 

To be fair, there's only so many times you can repeat the same stuff, with enthusiasm.  We need updates.  Changes.  Anything.

 

I don't bother going to the Army list sub forum any more.  If I read another "How's my GK army?  I've got a Libby, GKT and DreadKnights" it would be too soon. ;)

[Darkmagi]

Honestly I'd go full strikes 4 squads with 2 psycannons and 2 hammers comes to 1040 in keeping with the pa theme I'd probobly use a brotherhood champion and fill the rest of my points with interceptors... I think would be the best use of pa units... though if you don't mind breaking the theme the ml3 libby is cheaper and better.