Order of assembly and painting

[sibomots]

Hail brethren,

 

I am in the middle of building a Black Templar army (750 - 1500 pts).  I chose the Black Templars because I am one!

 

I am very detail oriented and want to take just as much time as it is required, no less, to make the painting job come out spectacular.  I won't rush anything.  If it takes me 6 months, so be it.

 

As I sit and examine these bits of plastic, and bases I glance at the 'eavy Metal pictorials in various Codex and wonder --

 

What is the best order to assemble and paint them?

 

Eg.,

 

Prime the models with aerosol paint or prime with airbrush?

Bases glued to model first?  Bases glued after painting?

Paint and texture the bases before or after attaching the model?

When does the "grass and other flora" get attached ?

For Space Marines type models, do I attach _all_ weapons then paint? Or do I paint the weapons then attach them?

Same for jet/power packs...

 

Specific to Black Templar -- just how important is the Black Templar upgrade kit?  Can I still pass muster if _some_ of the models do not have the decals and instead I hand-paint the insignia? 

 

How important is the colorization of the shoulder-pad edges to signify company number (see also Codex Space Marines, pp 14-15).  For the Initiates I see pictures of (Black Templars), the edges of the shoulder-pad are usually black, indicating 5th (fifth) company.

 

EDIT: Forgot to ask -- I've searched and found nothing definitive -- best process to reposition the heads of Space Marines to look in other directions?  Knife or saw?

(I have very small tooling for intricate work, but do not know which method produces the best result?  I assume there is some touch-up work/green-stuff involved to replace the lost material from the kerf).

 

I see a lot of wonderfully painted models in books, but I don't know the best recommended _order_ to assemble and paint the completed model.

 

Your suggestions are welcome, thanks.

[Jarl of Wulfen]

If you are building templars, I think the upgrade kit is pretty good.  It gives you tabarded torsos that you don't get in the main marine boxes.  It also has specific helms that look different from the standard ones.  The gun have chains attached as well for the templars who don't put down their weapons until the job is done.

 

I done a paint/assemble process, where I'll paint the parts, assemble, then touch up as needed.

 

I'm not sure if Templars do a company thing.  I think they are organized into crusades as needed.

 

For the head, the plastic kits are a ball and socket type, where the neck is a rounded stump and the torso has a concave place for it to sit.

[Peredyne]

The multipart marines allow you to position the heads however you like. The snap together type that are usually four pieces can be cut, but you're better off cutting off the head to preserve the body and replace the head with a spare.

[Ovidius Incertus]

To hit some of your questions:

 

This is my personal method (primarily because my Flesh Tearers have helmets, pauldrons and packs that are different color than bodies AND I'm also detail oriented): I assemble the legs, torso and arms in the pose I want.  I do not attach the head, backpack, shoulder pads or weapon permanently at this point.  All minis have a hole drilled in their foot and a pin (paperclip) glued in.  I set up my bases and drill a hole in the base corresponding to each guy's foot pin.  I prime and paint all my bases at once (consistent theme).  Then I go back and prime all my bodies (red in my case) and paint them (various other reds).  Next I paint my other parts, since they're all primed with black and painted/shaded black.  Glue all the remaining parts on and then glue the mini to the base.  Add weathering powders to the mini and any of the extra little "bushes", etc.

 

Something to consider: I use an airbrush, so painting small patches of different colors without hitting the others is difficult or requires extensive masking, so that's why I paint lots of parts separately.  If you're doing Templars, it's maybe not necessary since it's all black and you can just go back with a brush and block out the white shoulders quickly.

 

One handed weapons (swords, pistols) I don't do separately, since they way they get posed still allows easy access to details on the chest and waist.  It's also easy enough to go back over my red primer with a brushed black basecoat to do up the silvers/blacks for most weapons.

 

Keeping heads separate really helps with painting eyes or faces.  You can prime/paint heads on the sprue even (mould lines cleaned, of course) or you can cut the heads off and fix them to something like a toothpick and paint that way.

 

If you're going to paint and then glue, you'll probably want to either mask off the area before paint or scrape paint off afterwards to ensure a solid plastic-to-plastic glue joint.

[Grotsmasha]

If you choose to paint/prime prior to assembly, be sure to scrape away any paint from where you will be gluing, as this will leave a much stronger bond.

 

I'm assuming you have some snap-fit models with fixed head positions? Any repositioning will destroy the head so you will need to acquire some spares before committing to doing this. As for the best method? Either a slow dremel or slow and steady shaping with a knife/clippers.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[sibomots]

Hmm.  Interesting.

 

I remember now the technique for pinning the feet -- I don't know why I forgot about that.   I saw that in a video, probably the "AwesomePaintJob" series.    Yes, I think that will work for me just fine.  It dovetails nicely with the approach to prepare and paint the bases at once too.  Divides the work up into non-conflicting sections.

 

I can take a break from figures and do base-work,  Prime, Texture, Paint, etc.. and set them aside and while they dry out, I can spend hours on the figures.

 

Depending on the weaponry and so on I can attach before or after painting as mentioned in the answers above.  That seems like a good plan.  Thanks.

 

I didn't realize that the heads were repositionable.  I must have been using a starter-kit set of Space Marines.  Good to know.

 

As far as drilling, I've been using a precision set of PCB (Printed Circuit Board) drills that I do other work with:  Amazon seems to sell a kit much like the one I have.  I center-punch the hole with a straight pin first to avoid drift.  

 

What I've done is make blow-up (24") photo copies of pages from Codex and taped them to the wall just in front of my workbench.  I can just glance up and spy all the color hints I need without having to keep looking for a bookmarked page.

 

I'm still studying painting schemes for the Black Templar, making mental notes about various strategies and shading variants other builders have used.  

 

Well that just about answers the questions I had.  I'm sure other Brothers will chime in; please do.  Thanks again.

[Canadian_F_H]

Black Templar do not follow the codex astartes. They do not have companies. Therefore they do not have company markings.

 

Black templars are divided into crusades numbering from a few hundred marines to as much as 1000 marines. Up to a dozen or more crusades exist at any one time. Supposedly there are over 6000 black templars by the time of the 41st millennium

 

The templars have been continueing the great crusade of the emperor since the time of the Horus heresy 10,000 years before the "current" millennium.

 

Their color and markings vary from crusade to crusade thru the millennia, but generally they all wear black armor with white shoulder pads, black trim on the shoulder pads with a black Templar cross.

 

Sword brethren and other specialists typically incorporate some red such as red trim on the shoulder pads, or red in their heraldry.

 

Tho with the distance and time between crusades other variations could be incorporated. But the most important thing to retain is the black armor and the cross. These were the heraldry of the chapter founder Sigismund and u doubt any Templar would diverge far from it. Further black armor is a symbol of loyalty to the emperor hence chaplains.

[JGeils81]

I usually prep and assemble the marines, except large weapons/items like plasma cannons that obscure detail, drill their feet and glue pins and pin them to bottle caps so I have something to hold them by while painting, spray prime, paint(by hand as I don't have an airbrush) then pin/glue them to the prepped bases and do touch up. But I'm pretty new at this my first ones ever were during last years ETL, so I say try with a couple at a time like a combat squad, and find what works best for you! I don't believe there is any "best" way, except what works the best for you.

 

As far as modifying them, I use a pin vise, exacto knives/saws, clippers, small files and sanding rods, superglue and green stuff. Measure twice, cut once and take your time!

 

Can't help you on the paint scheme, I've only ever painted Dark Angels

[Firepower]

Ohh, now this is interesting. Come, little brother, it is cozy under my wing.

My personal method:

Glue legs to bases and apply basing material, be it plasticard, sand, whatever. Not grass or foliage though. That comes later, after the model is painted. Before varnishing the finished product, dab a few spots of watered down glue (not super glue) on to the base and attach the foliage.

Attach torso to legs. However, if a torso has a tabard like many of those in the Templar upgrade kit, I tend to paint them separately from the legs. Just make sure the torso will fit with your chosen legs, first. Thanks to the rigid shapes, many tabard torsos have trouble fitting with more dynamically posed legs. Attach the backpack either way.

I pin arms on to paper clips and paint them separately. I attach shoulder plates to old sprues using greenstuff blobs. Most often, they will pop right off when you're done, but now and then you will have to scrape the greenstuff out. This is the same method I use to paint separate torsos when the need arises.

I also pin the heads on to paper clips and paint them separately.

When painting, first step is the base. They typically involve a great deal of drybrushing and sloppiness, so it's best to get it out of the way before you have to worry about messing up a pretty pair of well painted legs. Being black, they'll be very easy to clean up when you finish.

It's all rather intensive, but worth it. By keeping the arms, heads, and more complex torsos all separate, you will avoid having to work around very frustrating nooks and crannies later on.

For priming, I just use the aerosol GW Black primer.

It's a sloppy pic, but this is what my work bench looks like during the painting process:

The backpacks were painted separately here because I did some custom work that needed special attention. As you can see, arms, heads, and shoulders are all separate from the bodies, and two of the torsos (the ones with tabards) are separate from the legs.

For another example, some neophytes (those are their heads on the corks in the background):

As for the Upgrade kit, I consider it mandatory. Every one of my Templars at the very least has a BT specific shoulder pad. However, a big advantage of Templars is the room for kitbashing. I use (carefully selected) bitz from Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Khorne Berzerkers, WHFB Empire and Bretonnians, Grey Knights, Blood Angels, vanilla Marines, and others. Look for things chains, tabards, fancy chainswords, and you'll realize just how much there is to work with.

Likewise, Templars are rather unorthodox compared to codex marines. Personal heraldry is a common theme, so just about every one of my Templars has his own unique hand painted cross or variant on a shoulder pad. I actually did this because painting the cross in perfectly uniform size and proportions multiple times is a nightmare.

Like was mentioned before, Templars don't have codex organization, meaning no companies or company markings like color coded shoulder trim. If you look in their codex (the one prior to the current abomination) there is a guide showing how the colors change depending on role. Fast Attack units have a red trim, Sword Brethren have red trim and red crosses, etc. The book has tons of inspiration for fluff and painting alike, so even if the rules no longer matter, it is the Holy Tome of all true Templars

If you want to see what all this jargon leads to, the link to my plog is in my signature. Lots of examples of kitbashing to be found, and some painting guides/explanations. However, there are very few WIP shots. I tend to just show off finished products.

[sibomots]

I am glad for the comments and I appreciate the input.   I apologize for taking the thread off the rails a bit.  It was supposed to be a discussion about the steps of assembly/paint (law of superposition, see also Geology 101) and I may have contributed to the distraction.

 

I have got the BlackTemplar all fired up... (Which is a good thing), but in the wrong forum section.  I will now hunt down the right forum thread to discuss the BT issues in depth.

 

Thanks, especially @Firepower.

[Firepower]

Always glad to help the Neophytes along the correct paths. And paddle the snot out of those who stray.

[Carlson793]

My general process:

• Primer loose parts (poster putty covering glue points)
• Subassembly - parts that can be glued and still painted easily are glued, others left loose.
• Start painting subassemblies
• Insert a modicum of foul language when you realize Part A won't fit now that Subassembly B is glued
• Carefully break the join on Subassembly B - with appropriate amount of foul language - so you can put Part A where it goes
• Finish painting subassemblies
• Glue it all together
• Touchup

[Canadian_F_H]

<p>

 

My general process:

• Insert a modicum of foul language when you realize Part A won't fit now that Subassembly B is glued
• Carefully break the join on Subassembly B - with appropriate amount of foul language - so you can put Part A where it goes

Lol.

 

This is why I appreciate bp/cs initiates. No bolter blocking half the torso, so you can pretty much put the whole guy together minus the back pack

[sibomots]

My Nikon doesn't have a macro-zoom lens (yet), so I cannot take very detailed pictures of day 1 work.

 

But what I did was:

 

1. Pin the legs.

2. Glue torso, and attach torso in battle pose to legs.

3. Glue backpacks to torso.

4. Glue right arm (only) to torso.

 

Waiting to pin the left arm, head, and weapons so I can prime them separately then base coat and reach areas that would be hidden by the next steps.

 

Plan to:

 

5.  Glue on right hand weapon

6.  Glue on left arm to hold said weapon accordingly.

7.  Glue on head

8.  Paint rest of it.

 

In  between painting phases, work on the bases.  I got some nice rocky material to PVA on to the base, Will paint, shade, and wash them.

 

I was surprised that the non-Starter SPESS MAHREENS were not as "complete" as the Starter kit units.

 

My modeling buddies are sort of excited about my BT army, I will try to make it not suck.

 

 

List: http://sibomots.com/976_M41_Sanctus_Vendetta.pdf

[Firepower]

If you're going to start a proper blog of your work (with pics and such), best to start a new thread for it, either in the Works In Progress subforum, or the Black Templar subforum.

[sibomots]

Moved

 

 

Thanks for the note.