[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[Kilofix]

Are we immune to Phosphex ourselves? Wasn't sure if it counted as one of the Dangerous Terrain types we ignore.

[Charlo]

Are we immune to Phosphex ourselves? Wasn't sure if it counted as one of the Dangerous Terrain types we ignore.

We reroll failed tests and have a 4+ FNP against all poison and Fleshbane

[DuskRaider]

So, if we forget which slot terminators occupy for a moment, is there anything legion terminators can do better than deathshroud or wardens? The only bonuses i can see are price and slots

They're much more versatile. On top of Combi-Weapons and better Special Weapons, they also have access to Volkite Chargers. They have more options for CC weaponry as well. I still say Pride of the Legion is the best RoW for Death Guard, only because you can field Terminators in pretty much every slot, they all benefit from the Legion's traits (which have gotten much better), and with Primus Medicae they become nigh impossible to wipe.

 

Of course, you'll probably be outnumbered 10:1...

[disease]

So its generally accepted that primarchs should be deployed by dereadclaw to get into combat asap. My question is, given Mortarions high tougness and speed, is this really nececessary for him?

[Slips]

Not really, no.

[Charlo]

Mortarion works well with a unit in a transport or something as he can often get a T1 charge. Move 12, disembark 6, 10 inch phase, Fleet charge.

 

That's minimum 30 inches. Noice.

 

Although I'm not 100% on moving and disembarking rules so maybe it's only 6 vehicle move? Either way, 24 inches minimum.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Only problem with that is that there needs to be a further 250pt investment to run Mortarion that way (Land Raider), and that unless you have something to mitigate the threat of Grav which may be used to otherwise target Spartans, you will have lost Ol Morty until turns 2-3. Rather than risk losing 250pts, i prefer the Dreadclaw.

Although as otherwise said, you can further avoid the cost, and have him plod.

[Charlo]

Aye, this is true!

 

I mean, my DG is only going to be a small Primarchs chosen Zone Mortalis force of Morty, Wardens and Shroud. Can't wait to see him zip between walls and carve up some corridors.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Be interesting to see if ZM actually lets you use Rites of War in this one though XD

[Charlo]

I thought you could? Or is it forbidden?

[DuskRaider]

My group has always used RoWs in ZM. Just makes the game better.

[1ncarnadine]

I thought you could? Or is it forbidden?

 

It's one of those "teeeeechnically..." situations, where RAW, no. But then there are RoWs that are clearly intended for ZM. Like the ZM Rite of War that is literally called the Zone Mortalis Assault Force.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Yup. "Cannot use variant FoC's with Rite of War" "ZM variant FoC's" "ZM Rite of War". 

 

It's like the whole Praevian deal. "Must join a unit of MC's" Can he legally do so? No! But it says he must! If someone said "Stand on X spot" but "spot X" was a place in thin air. Having no actual ability to, but being required to do so. 

 

As ever, it's "Ignore what FW say, they are the Jon Snow of rules and we are the Ygrittes". 

[Erren]

Can someone remind me where the rule is about no RoW with ZM FOC? I see in LACAL on page 9 where it says "When playing Horus Heresy games using these alternative charts, the Rites of War rules for the Space Marine Legions may not be used in conjunction with them...", but to me that's definitely talking only about Onslaught, Castellan, and Leviathan charts, not all alternate force orgs.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Welcome to the problem with FW's rules writing abilities. "These" could refer to "those" specific three alternative Force Organizations, or "those" alternative Force Organizations. It's all a matter of interpretation, whereas rules should be written well enough that there's no possible reasonable way of interpreting otherwise.

 

There has never been a case of "YOU MAY NOT USE RITES OF WAR" outside of that, apart from FW's chronic inability to write sensible rules.

[DuskRaider]

I've heard in various places folks saying "RoW are not allowed in ZM", but in practice pretty much everyone uses them and also says to ignore the restriction (wherever it is). Some RoW do interfere with the ZM FOC (I believe Word Bearers are a good example), but when push comes to shove you're playing for the fun, not to be a rules lawyering nance.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I've heard in various places folks saying "RoW are not allowed in ZM", but in practice pretty much everyone uses them and also says to ignore the restriction (wherever it is). Some RoW do interfere with the ZM FOC (I believe Word Bearers are a good example), but when push comes to shove you're playing for the fun, not to be a rules lawyering nance.

True :). 

 

Still, we're not playing the game while we're on the forums, and being able to talk it out on the forums is fun and good to help get better system mastery and learn some new things.

[Slips]

Its still a good thing to keep in mind.

 

It pays to never make assumptions and to make sure everything is clearly defined beforehand.

[DuskRaider]

Has anyone ever run The Reaping just for the extra bonuses we get on our infantry? I'm still contemplating investing in Heavy Support Squads, but I just picked up three Medusas and Thudd Guns to rain Phosphex hell upon the enemy. I'm thinking with Destroyers and Grave Wardens (gasp!) I could definitely play a list themed around the Legion's chemical warfare aspect.

[Charlo]

Has anyone ever run The Reaping just for the extra bonuses we get on our infantry? I'm still contemplating investing in Heavy Support Squads, but I just picked up three Medusas and Thudd Guns to rain Phosphex hell upon the enemy. I'm thinking with Destroyers and Grave Wardens (gasp!) I could definitely play a list themed around the Legion's chemical warfare aspect.

Only problem is the horrible overcosted destroyers. I LOVE them, love love them. But problem is, especially in the reaping they offer nothing except expensive rad missiles. They benefit from MTC though, but a tooled unit is 400 odd points :(

 

I love heavy support squads as troops. Scoring heavy weapons teams/ chem heavy flamer teams ftw :D fluffy and fun!

 

I think DG can work as a great midrange army. You get up in the enemies grill and then make them charge you. Boarding Shields on characters to stop charges and all our delicious fiery chemical overwatch will take its toll with rad grenades tipping the balance. Plus Scythes are great at ripping apart all other Legion sergeants bar EC and white scars who get ap2 at full initiative.

[Raktra]

Is Reaping Strike (or whatever it be named) mandatory? Or can it be forgone for strike at full I?

[Charlo]

I think it's just an inherent rule of the weapon, so you strike with it or use your pistol for no bonuses what so ever.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Why would you take Destroyers when their only benefit is bringing Rad Nades and you give them to everybody?

Medusa's lose Barrage when using Phosphex Rounds, and you're trading S10 AP2 for Poisoned 3+ AP2 that is only a little bit more accurate providing you have Nuncio elsewhere in the list.

Grave Wardens Shooting is naff, but the unit cannot Run, and only does well up close, so needs a Transport, but Reaping cannot Deep Strike, so no Dreadclaws.

Phosphex Quad Mortars became a bit better, and the required siege breaker for the phosphex quad mortars gives you a Tank Hunting; Tank Hunting Heavy Weapon Lascannon Squad, but are expensive as hell.

Assault Squads get your best use out of Rad Nades and the upgraded Deathshroud Scythe is incredible because you can go for a 5++ Shield rather than AArmour, and get 4 S5 AP2 attacks at I3.

Outriders get a good Power Weapon to model ratio and large base size is good for Scythes. Skyhunters are less friendly to CC/Power Weapons ratio, but are more resilient.

A pair of Librarians running Telekinesis give you the best ratio of Levitation to advance your footsloggers up.

Failing that, Rhino borne squads can get close, debuss behind rhino then assault with 3 Attacks vs T3 units.
 

Edited February 12, 2016 by Slipstreams
removed inflammatory remarks

[disease]

Hesh has a good point. This is the Death Guard tactics area, and he is absolutely correct in that when running the reaping, the units that benefit most are the units that are not 'traditionally fluffy'. Hesh has been showing us what 'does' work with the reaping not what people 'want' to work. I ask, how many people do you see take librarians and assault marines in normal games? How many of us on here would have even normally considered those units in a DG list without Hesh's input?

 

Playing an NBC list is fine - we all know what units can take rad and phos. And yes, we could talk specifics on how to run the best NBC list given the tight constraints that we have.

 

But given this is a tactics thread, should we not be praising these alternative playstyles and ways to win? Or should we have a separate tactica on how to lose games but be thematic when doing so?

[DuskRaider]

Likewise, you can say that the thread is about taking a list that emulates the Legion and how you can make it work instead of just naysaying it as too weak and brushing it off. Competitive lists are great and all to some people, but if you're not embracing the spirit of the Legion, then what's the point of playing it?