[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[disease]

Attempting to be constructive and moving on from poop flinging...

 

Primaris lightnings with Phosphex

[DuskRaider]

I'm considering Lightnings as well. They're awesome and even though they'll run out of bombs quickly, they'll drop them wherever you want. Downside is the massive price for them... also, I believe you can only take two with The Reaping.

[1ncarnadine]

Likewise, you can say that the thread is about taking a list that emulates the Legion and how you can make it work instead of just naysaying it as too weak and brushing it off. Competitive lists are great and all to some people, but if you're not embracing the spirit of the Legion, then what's the point of playing it?

 

Why can't we do both? Seriously. I like Hesh's extremely practical advice and I like trying to make the fluffy units work sometimes too.

 

Saying Hesh shouldn't be here to give that advice is not constructive, and not to the spirit of any of these tactica threads.

 

Also, anything can emulate the Legion. We don't have to take Destroyers and Phosphex Medusas to emulate the freakin' Legion. Maybe I play the Legion because I like the color scheme, or the base aspect of the will to endure in the face of all odds? Who is anyone to say how someone else should embrace the spirit of a Legion? 

 

There's no reason we can't have thematic tactics here; the problem is when you start telling someone they can't have their non-thematics and that thematics are better. Please, please understand that thematics are a personal choice. And vice versa. Personally I like to ride somewhere that balances both, and I don't think any of those 3 ways or any other ways are right or wrong.

 

 

I'm considering Lightnings as well. They're awesome and even though they'll run out of bombs quickly, they'll drop them wherever you want. Downside is the massive price for them... also, I believe you can only take two with The Reaping.

 

I think you can sub-orbital wing Lightnings in your LoW slot for 1-3 as well? Otherwise you're limited to only 1.

[DuskRaider]

Well if one individual asks why use a unit perceived as poor by them just to play a theme, I think we can play devil's advocate and ask why play a Legion when you don't want to use anything the Legion would in large numbers? It wasn't me that said he shouldn't play Death Guard.

[disease]

 

Likewise, you can say that the thread is about taking a list that emulates the Legion and how you can make it work instead of just naysaying it as too weak and brushing it off. Competitive lists are great and all to some people, but if you're not embracing the spirit of the Legion, then what's the point of playing it?

 

Why can't we do both? Seriously. I like Hesh's extremely practical advice and I like trying to make the fluffy units work sometimes too.

 

Saying Hesh shouldn't be here to give that advice is not constructive, and not to the spirit of any of these tactica threads.

 

Also, anything can emulate the Legion. We don't have to take Destroyers and Phosphex Medusas to emulate the freakin' Legion. Maybe I play the Legion because I like the color scheme, or the base aspect of the will to endure in the face of all odds? Who is anyone to say how someone else should embrace the spirit of a Legion? 

 

There's no reason we can't have thematic tactics here; the problem is when you start telling someone they can't have their non-thematics and that thematics are better. Please, please understand that thematics are a personal choice. And vice versa. Personally I like to ride somewhere that balances both, and I don't think any of those 3 ways or any other ways are right or wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

This is it, the size of the Legions means that almost any list can 'be fluffy' if we apply enough thought. The size of the rules is limited, but the size of the stories and fluff justifications we can come up is near limitless.

 

Consider this, someone may look at Hesh's alternative tactics and be like 'hell yeah! That's exactly how I want to run my legion'. Case in point, my own DG. I'm thinking of running a DG rapid response force. Is this Fluffy? you might say no - why not play white scars.  Now I ask again, is this Fluffy - the legion had near 100,000 warriors, of that would there be a battalion of marines on jetbikes who could move with speed to help brothers coming under overwhelming odds (e.g. The current death guard trench is being over run on the eastern flank due to a suprise solar auxillia attack)? The likelihood is yes, in a legion of 100,000 warriors, some would provide a support 'cavalry' element. 

 

So now to apply that to rules. With Hesh's input, I was able to see that I could still benefit from the reaping ROW, even though my support company would be light on devastators. I hadn't considered assault marines before - it took someone else to point out that they would gain move through cover and rad nades. Would jump packers fit my theme? Of course!

 

Point is, discussing combinations that 'work' help to build lists and forge narratives, not destroy them. I don't want Hesh (or anyone else for that matter) to not post in this group and put ideas forward for fear of fluff retribution.

[disease]

 

I think you can sub-orbital wing Lightnings in your LoW slot for 1-3 as well? Otherwise you're limited to only 1.

 

 

It's such an evil idea to run that many. I love it. Shame it gives up easy VP's though right?

[DuskRaider]

I'd rather use my LoW for a Fellblade or Mortarion anyhow. Bringing one in isn't a bad idea, though.

[1ncarnadine]

 

 

I think you can sub-orbital wing Lightnings in your LoW slot for 1-3 as well? Otherwise you're limited to only 1.

 

 

It's such an evil idea to run that many. I love it. Shame it gives up easy VP's though right?

 

 

You'd lose 1 VP per Lightning lost. I'm not sure I'd ever run that many Lightnings, but if you really want or need flyers it is a decent workaround to The Reaping's fast attack limit. It's easy to forget about the Sub-Orbital Wing but it's neat that we have the option :)

[DuskRaider]

I personally don't agree with Hesh's tactics with Death Guard. I think it goes against the fluff of the Legion, and I personally wouldn't use Bikers and ESPECIALLY Librarians. However, I do appreciate his input in general, and I enjoy the discussion and banter throughout the forum.

Tactics should be alm encompassing. How can we make Destroyers work? Or Phosphex Medusas? Shutting someone down because they prefer to play thematically is just as bad as the other way around.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

I am not a Death Guard player, and therefore have little sway in this conversation, but attacking someone because their concept of fluffy doesn't fit your (limited) concept of the fluff is unbecoming.

 

Disease nailed it pretty much when he said that a Legion contained all the tools necessary to win a battle - be they infantry, armour, cavalry, artillery, etc.

 

Death Guard - all Space Marines - are warriors. Warriors win battles by outfighting and outthinking their opponents. A warrior who can't adapt his tactics to beat his opponent is a dead man.

 

Each warrior has his own 'style' that he prefers to fight with, but at the end of the day he'll do what's necessary to win the battle and win the war. For a Space Marine to limit himself so strictly to a particular style of fighting that it hampers his ability to win battles would be the most unfluffy thing I can think of.

[Slips]

+++As much as we might disagree with one another, try and keep it friendly and avoid any name calling+++

This is also a Tactica thread so dont be surprised or get put-off by people "going off the beaten path"

 

Remember, if you see problems with other Fraters Posts, hit that report button and avoid escalating the situation if its potentially inflammatory.

But, Above all, keep the discussion Constructive and On-Topic.

 

=][=

Edited February 12, 2016 by Slipstreams

[disease]

New rite if war for traitors: sacrificial offering. Will work better with SoH and nightlords, but lets have a think specific for DG.

 

Astartes are held in reserve while some (stubborn, VP less) cultists create a trap. You must take a fortification. Astartes arrive via outflank, cant take anything slow and purposeful, immobile or has deep strike. Immedietly, promethium pipes and or bunker with comms relay jump out to me as potentially working with DG. The cult list can take huge numbers of heavy weapon squads too, so ammo dump could be a worthwhile investment. As for DG, we could load up on heavy weapon flamer squads and have them outlank and burn stuff with chem flamers, or take vets and have furious charge AND outflank? Bonus warrior lodge points if you took the promethium pipes for maximum flamer effect. Scoring becomes an issue though, since we still have a troops tax to fill.

 

Thoughts?

[Kilofix]

One thing I'd say; even though Mortarion's Shadow of the Reaper has less actual combat value outside of say ZM, it's still such a unique fun ability to use. I almost feel bad that Curze / Corax don't have it.

[Slips]

They get Jump Packs and Hit & Run though :p

[Charlo]

Well hey I figured out how to use the Death Guard Models I bought.

 

I am in love with this little list. Especially when you start stacking on the template weapon buffs as chem flamers already have shred.

 

+++ DG ZM (1000pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1000pts) ++

 

+ Elites (145pts) +

 

Deathshroud Terminator Squad (145pts) [3x Deathshroud Terminators, Melta Bombs]

 

+ Heavy Support (430pts) +

 

Grave Warden Terminator Squad (220pts) [2x Chainfist, 4x Grave Warden Terminator, Heavy Flamer with Chem-munitions]

····Chem-master [Deathshroud Power Scythe]

 

Legion Heavy Support Squad (210pts) [Chem-munitions, Heavy Flamers, 7x Legion Space Marines]

····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [XIV: Death Guard]

 

+ Lord of War (425pts) +

 

Mortarion the Reaper (425pts)

[Hesh Kadesh]

I forget, do you not need a HQ with ZM?

[Slips]

I forget, do you not need a HQ with ZM?

Yes you do.

 

So Charlo, I think you mightve forgotten something pretty important from your list :p

[Charlo]

New rite of War yo! Primarchs Chosen.

 

Juding by the fact that there is a RoW that references ZM it seems like this is legal.

 

If not, I'll lose some support guys for a basic centurion/ delegatus or something.

[Slips]

Well then put him jn the HQ slot yo!

[Charlo]

Well then put him jn the HQ slot yo!

Blame Battlescribe brother :P

 

But yes, between a million flame templates, horrendous overwatch and Mortarion teleporting through walls to pick off whatever he fancies this list Coukd be marginally OP.

 

Any one else a tad miffed that the main aspect of the new RoW, the chem bombardment only affects Forests... Every board I've seen for 40/30k is a city scape... Mergh.

[Slips]

MANUAL EDITS FOO! Its not like your Copy Pasting a picture LOL

 

The Chem Bombardments only affecting Forests is something thats easily discussed with TO's or Opponents to see if you can widen the range of affectable terrain :p

 

Its all about communication, yo.

[Hesh Kadesh]

You are taking a Primarch to ZM. Prepare to lose friends.

[Charlo]

That's my secret Hesh... I don't have any! By which I mean I don't have a proper 30k group yet. I'd of busy this out once or so for lulz and to see what happens.

 

And yeah, I could have edited but I was at work!

 

And good point on the bombardment. Maybe forests on a 4+ but others on a 6. That could be nice.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Have you considered Mortarion and a Dreadnought?

 

Namely, Leviathan with Claw and Drill 1-2 combo.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[Charlo]

Have you considered Mortarion and a Dreadnought?

 

Namely, Leviathan with Claw and Drill 1-2 combo.

Of course I have, I consider the Leviathan for everything I do!

 

But I quite like the fluff appeal of Morty and his little chosen circle of chemical totting terminators and flamers running rampant in a ships corridors.

 

Also the Leviathan is an 80mm Base and 60 is the upper limit for ZM I thought. But I know Deredeo are the weird example because they come on an 80mm but are featured in ZM in all the art...