[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[Charlo]

Okay, so pissing competition aside... :P

 

How about as a remedy to the situation, I lose the extra combat weapons on the tacticals and then get shatter shells on the Mortars? Between laser vindicators, Heavy weapons with interceptor and them should be okay?

[DuskRaider]

Phosphex on the Mortars, without a doubt. It's so nasty that any more than one squad of 3 is OP. Drop Phosphex from the Medusa, they're nasty either way but with regular ammunition they hit harder and farther. Edited March 24, 2016 by DuskRaider

[Charlo]

I do hear ya, but they just seem so GOOD with Phosphex. Especially leaving behind large templates. I wish we got both ammo types like the Ad Mech...

 

The lack of ap2 on the Mortar Phosphex is annoying too a tad...

[DuskRaider]

Oh trust me, I LOVE Phosphex as we saw earlier in the thread :-P. Perhaps instead of two Laser Vindicators just one Venator?

[Flint13]

I do hear ya, but they just seem so GOOD with Phosphex. Especially leaving behind large templates. I wish we got both ammo types like the Ad Mech...

 

The lack of ap2 on the Mortar Phosphex is annoying too a tad...

 

 

I'd second dropping Phosphex in the Medusas. The biggest problem you're realistically going to run into is a flare shielded Spartan, which at 3000pts, you're almost guaranteed to see. Medusas ignore the flare shield with barrage and can cause decent damage on the Pen chart with Ap2.

 

 

Oh trust me, I LOVE Phosphex as we saw earlier in the thread :-P. Perhaps instead of two Laser Vindicators just one Venator?

I like this idea. Venators are a solid investment in pretty much every circumstance, more so when you start getting into larger point games. In the 3000 point area you're looking at, it's very likely you'll see all sorts of super heavies that would be shut down by a Venator. Typhons, Malcadors, Baneblade variants, Warhounds and Knights are all possibilities, and all of which *loathe* Venators.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well not anymore, lol.

 

Touché, my friend. Touché

 

@ Charlo - Let it go ;) S10 is too valuable on Medusas to lose it. It is not like you lack Phosphex elsewhere :P Besides, you can always change it up from match to match. It is not like you need to make an ultimately decision now.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Immersturm

[Charlo]

I did consider a Venator y'know... Hmm seems like it could be a good shout. With it being fast I can hide and redeploy rather well too couldn't I?

 

Just felt like the 6 shots from Laser Vindis were better than the two from a Venator, though snapshots on a Typhon or something are worth it I suppose! Plus the Venator is a nifty lasor cannon - pew pew.

 

(I'm a mature 25 year old I swear)

 

Okay then how about this:

 

Removed the Vindi's for a Venator. Normal Medusas. Removed the CCW/Rad nades on the tacticals. 35pts left.

 

+++ DG (2965pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2965pts) ++

+ HQ (155pts) +

Legion Centurion (155pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Deathshroud Power Scythe, Phosphex Bombs, Rad Grenades]
····Consul [siege Breaker]

+ Troops (1380pts) +

Legion Heavy Support Squad (275pts) [Heavy Flamers, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 8x Legion Space Marines]
····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades]

Legion Heavy Support Squad (325pts) [Flak Missiles, 8x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers]
····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

Legion Heavy Support Squad (330pts) [8x Legion Space Marines, Volkite Culverin]
····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Rad Grenades]

Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Deathshroud Power Scythe, Melta Bombs]

Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Deathshroud Power Scythe, Melta Bombs]

+ Elites (160pts) +

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (160pts) [2x Legion Rapier, Phosphex Canister Shot]

+ Heavy Support (845pts) +

Grave Warden Terminator Squad (285pts) [3x Chainfist, 6x Grave Warden Terminator]

Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (310pts) [Legion Medusa, Legion Medusa]

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (250pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons]

+ Legion +

Legion Astartes [Traitor, XIV: Death Guard]

+ Lord of War (425pts) +

Mortarion the Reaper (425pts)
····Master of the Legion [The Reaping]

[Lord Asvaldir]

 

 Plus the Venator is a nifty lasor cannon - pew pew.

 

(I'm a mature 25 year old I swear)

 

 

Honestly is there a 40k player who hasn't at some point in a game made some sound effects? I make some kabooms, vroooms, pew pews and of course, chooms most games. 

 

I think your list looks solid. A transport for the terminators and mortarian would be nice, but I don't think there's anything I'd take out to find the points for a spartan, plus grave wardens are one of the few terminator types that can do without a transport. Plus, mortarian is one of the fastest, if not the fastest primarchs due to his special move ability, so he's fine without a transport. 

[Charlo]

 

 

 Plus the Venator is a nifty lasor cannon - pew pew.

 

(I'm a mature 25 year old I swear)

 

 

Honestly is there a 40k player who hasn't at some point in a game made some sound effects? I make some kabooms, vroooms, pew pews and of course, chooms most games. 

 

I think your list looks solid. A transport for the terminators and mortarian would be nice, but I don't think there's anything I'd take out to find the points for a spartan, plus grave wardens are one of the few terminator types that can do without a transport. Plus, mortarian is one of the fastest, if not the fastest primarchs due to his special move ability, so he's fine without a transport. 

 

 

Yeah that was my thinking. If anything the wardens are an insurance for the backfield. Immovable block.

[Charlo]

Saying that though... Removing the Wardens let's me do a few things like a Scorpius and Flakk missiles on the missile squad. Plus a Kheres Mortis. I think in a gun line like this that could work a lot better...

 

 

+++ DG (3000pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (3000pts) ++

+ HQ (160pts) +

Legion Centurion (160pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Deathshroud Power Scythe, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades, Volkite Charger]
····Consul [siege Breaker]

+ Troops (1400pts) +

Legion Heavy Support Squad (275pts) [Heavy Flamers, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 8x Legion Space Marines]
····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades]

Legion Heavy Support Squad (325pts) [Flak Missiles, 8x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers]
····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

Legion Heavy Support Squad (330pts) [8x Legion Space Marines, Volkite Culverin]
····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Rad Grenades]

Legion Tactical Squad (235pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Deathshroud Power Scythe, Melta Bombs]

Legion Tactical Squad (235pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Deathshroud Power Scythe, Melta Bombs]

+ Elites (340pts) +

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (180pts) [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons]

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (160pts) [2x Legion Rapier, Phosphex Canister Shot]

+ Heavy Support (675pts) +

Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (310pts) [Legion Medusa, Legion Medusa]

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (115pts)

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (250pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons]

+ Legion +

Legion Astartes [Traitor, XIV: Death Guard]

+ Lord of War (425pts) +

Mortarion the Reaper (425pts)
····Master of the Legion [The Reaping]

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by Charlo

[DuskRaider]

Grave Wardens are second fiddle to pretty much anything else in the Heavy Support slot.

 

I do think that gun line isn't the right approach to using The Reaping, however, as many of the benefits of the Rite (and the Legion's traits in general) lend themselves more to walking up the board into enemy fire and just kinda soaking it up. Static gun line kind of makes those go to waste.

[Charlo]

They are very strong now, they just don't have a place in the list.

 

I don't get what you mean about soaking up fire though, we aren't Iron Hands. It's only poison, Fleshbane and dangerous terrain we get protection from. Plus we get penalties to sweeping advance and running so we aren't too fast either.

[DuskRaider]

Perhaps not the soaking up part, that's more a visual... but the RoW itself is more geared toward a moving firebase rather than a static gunline.

[Slips]

If your warlord rolls on the Strategic Table and nabs you infiltrate, you can do some pretty nifty things.

 

Bonus points on having something to dish out Endurance on your Heavy Weapon squads so that they can move and shoot.

 

Just with The Reaping gave HSS Slow & Purposeful. Would fit the theme perfectly.

[Charlo]

If I go loyalist (read, not Mortarion) I can go Mortug and a Preator for Reaping/ 3 infiltrate uni combo. Plus endurance!

 

I'd actually rather the NEW rite of war gave them slow and purposeful.

 

That way you'd have a nice balance, reaping for more guns, mist for mobile guns.

[Slips]

Honestly, Both RoWs could easily be fused into a pretty awesome Death Guard RoW especially if coupled with S&P on HSS.

[Charlo]

Now that I agree on. Open cover, HSS troops, whole army gets SnP instead of MTC. Still keep the run restriction. Plus Rad nades.

 

Lose the janky chem bombardment or make it a special DG siege breaker thing.

[1ncarnadine]

If I go loyalist (read, not Mortarion) I can go Mortug and a Preator for Reaping/ 3 infiltrate uni combo. Plus endurance!

 

I'd actually rather the NEW rite of war gave them slow and purposeful.

 

That way you'd have a nice balance, reaping for more guns, mist for mobile guns.

 

Huh? Can't run Morturg's infiltrate WL trait with a Praetor taking the Reaping, only one can be warlord. If only Morturg were a MotL...

 

 

Honestly, Both RoWs could easily be fused into a pretty awesome Death Guard RoW especially if coupled with S&P on HSS.

 

Creeping Death just needs like... one other cool thing. Marshal Loss suggested it'd be neat if it gave access to Phosphex rounds without requiring the Siegebreaker (just cut him right out). Or like, all characters can nab a single phosphex bomb each. Something.

 

S&P or Relentless on a unit entry would be neat. But I think they're really wary of using the S&P rule due to its conferring interactions after the Cataphractii problem.

[Charlo]

The rule that let's you take a rite doesn't mean you have to be warlord I believe, for a Preator at least - just the delegatus. So its doable.

[Slips]

Forgeworld, if you're reading this, I'm a currently unemployed Game Design Student ;)

 

...but for realzies now, yeah, thatd be pretty great. However, I'd change the Chem Bombardment from the new RoW into something like:

• D3+1 Pieces of Terrain are affected; not just forests and jungles.
• Grants units inside affected terrain Shrouded but all models inside said terrain take a single S* Ap4 Poisoned 4+ hit every turn. Which DG would get a 4+ FNP against.
• Siege Breaker w/ a Master of Signal in the List, Typhon or Mortarion can call down an additional D3+1 Bombardments that have the Following Profile:
  • S5 Ap3 Fleshbane, Ordnance 1, Large Blast (5"), Chemical Cloud.
    • After Resolving the Orbital Bombardment, a Chemical Cloud remains in play using the initial shots Template, the chemical cloud has the following profile:
      • S* Ap5 Poisoned 4+, Rending
    • This template scatters 2D6" every turn and grants units underneath the template the Shrouded special rule.

Long winded as all hell but makes for a more useful and interesting Chem Bombardment.

[1ncarnadine]

The rule that let's you take a rite doesn't mean you have to be warlord I believe, for a Preator at least - just the delegatus. So its doable.

 

Yeah but be wary. Praetors are listed with MotL in the entry, but then also defined as only having the rule if they are the army's Warlord. The number of special characters that have MotL without Jealous Command is pretty low, too, and then their warlord traits that you're not using are usually factored into their cost.

 

 

Forgeworld, if you're reading this, I'm a currently unemployed Game Design Student

 

...but for realzies now, yeah, thatd be pretty great. However, I'd change the Chem Bombardment from the new RoW into something like:

• D3+1 Pieces of Terrain are affected; not just forests and jungles.
• Grants units inside affected terrain Shrouded but all models inside said terrain take a single S* Ap4 Poisoned 4+ hit every turn. Which DG would get a 4+ FNP against.
• Siege Breaker w/ a Master of Signal in the List, Typhon or Mortarion can call down an additional D3+1 Bombardments that have the Following Profile:
  • S5 Ap3 Fleshbane, Ordnance 1, Large Blast (5"), Chemical Cloud.
    • After Resolving the Orbital Bombardment, a Chemical Cloud remains in play using the initial shots Template, the chemical cloud has the following profile:
      • S* Ap5 Poisoned 4+, Rending
    • This template scatters 2D6" every turn and grants units underneath the template the Shrouded special rule.

Long winded as all hell but makes for a more useful and interesting Chem Bombardment.

 

I really like the gist of it, but it could be a lot simpler. Maybe targeting models at the start of the game for poison bombardment attacks almost like a saboteur/vigilator, and if they're in forest/jungle it suffers from the regular rite effects as an extra thematic bonus? Giving DG MoS/Damocles a poison bombardment a la Typhon is a nice idea too. Or just straight up let the Siege Breaker loose one.

 

The wishlisting is strong with this rite. It just sounds way too cool to be as competitively underwhelming as it is.

 

It would honestly work alright on a starter board made up of like the realm of battle board and then maybe 50/50 citadel woods to ruined buildings. Which is also the kind of board you tend to see at citadel events and in GW stores.

[Slips]

The only thing with the Rite is that part of it will never come into play unless specifically planned for.

 

It had a medium-ok bonus and no real restrictions in what can be taken outside of forcing a Siege Breaker which you might want to include anyways for Phosphex Shells on Rapiers.

 

Its not bad.

 

its not good.

 

Its ok.

[Caillum]

 

 

The rule that let's you take a rite doesn't mean you have to be warlord I believe, for a Preator at least - just the delegatus. So its doable.

Yeah but be wary. Praetors are listed with MotL in the entry, but then also defined as only having the rule if they are the army's Warlord. The number of special characters that have MotL without Jealous Command is pretty low, too, and then their warlord traits that you're not using are usually factored into their cost.

I think Charlo is right! They cleaned up the wording of MotL, but that's a change that I didn't spot. Nice pick up!

 

It doesn't actually say that a Master of the Legion must be the Warlord anywhere. It also makes sense when you look at the Herald Consul, as he has Support Officer and Master of the Legion, meaning you need another HQ with him no matter what, and they could be the Warlord.

 

My thoughts:

- Morturg & 3 non-Vehicle units can Infiltrate. A Breacher Blob, Grave Wardens and a Praetor are my pick.

- Grave Wardens gained Implacable Advance, meaning you'll have an extra Scoring Unit. They also gained the ability to Overwatch their Death Clouds, despite being in Cataphractii.

- Infiltrate means you can't charge on the 1st Turn, but you can set up a guaranteed 2nd Turn charge, or weather one with the Breachers (rad grenades & flamers with chem-munitions) or the Grave Wardens (Death Clouds with Poison (3+)).

- add in your favourite units to taste. :)

[1ncarnadine]

 

 

The rule that let's you take a rite doesn't mean you have to be warlord I believe, for a Preator at least - just the delegatus. So its doable.

Yeah but be wary. Praetors are listed with MotL in the entry, but then also defined as only having the rule if they are the army's Warlord. The number of special characters that have MotL without Jealous Command is pretty low, too, and then their warlord traits that you're not using are usually factored into their cost.

I think Charlo is right! They cleaned up the wording of MotL, but that's a change that I didn't spot. Nice pick up!

 

It doesn't actually say that a Master of the Legion must be the Warlord anywhere. It also makes sense when you look at the Herald Consul, as he has Support Officer and Master of the Legion, meaning you need another HQ with him no matter what, and they could be the Warlord.

 

My thoughts:

- Morturg & 3 non-Vehicle units can Infiltrate. A Breacher Blob, Grave Wardens and a Praetor are my pick.

- Grave Wardens gained Implacable Advance, meaning you'll have an extra Scoring Unit. They also gained the ability to Overwatch their Death Clouds, despite being in Cataphractii.

- Infiltrate means you can't charge on the 1st Turn, but you can set up a guaranteed 2nd Turn charge, or weather one with the Breachers (rad grenades & flamers with chem-munitions) or the Grave Wardens (Death Clouds with Poison (3+)).

- add in your favourite units to taste.

 

 

The Herald consul is still screwed, as his actual rule is Rite of Command (not simply MotL), which definitely specifies he must be the Warlord. He probably should just have MotL... that would be pretty cool :(

Edited March 25, 2016 by LetsYouDown

[Caillum]

The Herald consul is still screwed, as his actual rule is Rite of Command (not simply MotL), which definitely specifies he must be the Warlord. He probably should just have MotL... that would be pretty cool :(

Yeah, you're right. Thought it amounted to the same thing as MotL, but the Herald/Delegatus have that additional caveat.

 

Either way, I still think that a MotL doesn't need to be the Warlord.