[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[Caillum]

If you haven't tried it already, do the DCCW/chainfist Cortus with 2 graviton guns. It is made for ZM!

[Charlo]

If you haven't tried it already, do the DCCW/chainfist Cortus with 2 graviton guns. It is made for ZM!

 

My only gripe was missing out on the BS/ WS5 with a Cortus. Obviously the BS5 isn't an issue with Grav Guns, but only hitting on a 4+ seems like a potential recipe for disaster?

 

I went for Melta for the chance to blow up vehicles or multi-wound T4.

[LtDan]

I've always played outflank. It shows circling down another corridor or similar.

Not cheap but fist and paragon blade?? Both specialist weapon too so extra attack. I'd stay in Tartarus so can run and sweep. Or just art armour?

Leviathan very big for zm. I'd stick to contemptors

[Caillum]

I suppose that’s where the Atomantic Overcharge comes in. Give it Rage for a total of 6! attacks on the charge. That’s a S6 AP- Hammer of Wrath, followed by 6 swings at S10 AP2. An average of only 3 hits, but if your dice are hot...

 

For compariosn, a Contemptor Prime will get 5 attacks, with an average of 3.33 hits - not a lot more for the increased points cost. And a lower max threshold.

 

If you’re worried about return attacks, I’d take the +1 Initiative instead and (hopefully) kill a few models straight up. The Prime gets a very slight advantage here, as it will have a 6++ in combat.

[Charlo]

Quick question before I respond to the excellent comments:

 

Thinking of a Heavy Support Squad with Heavy Flamers... Hardened Armour yes or no? I know it had some good use in ZM and the 25pts saves me from Rending and other such nasties doesn't it? Alternatively, I could run a Sniper Vet Squad with a couple of Heavy Flamers thrown in as opposed to the full Heavy Flamer Squad?

 

I've always played outflank. It shows circling down another corridor or similar.
Not cheap but fist and paragon blade?? Both specialist weapon too so extra attack. I'd stay in Tartarus so can run and sweep. Or just art armour?
Leviathan very big for zm. I'd stick to contemptors

 

Yeah, you must be able to outflank... I'm just thinking too literally about it!

I did consider the Fist & Blade, but that is a LOT of points... However I need this guy to never die and feel like Concussive will be useful. Maybe even a Chainfist to deal with any stray Dreads/ Doors?

Tartaros and Iron Halo is again crazy huge points just to sweep... But I suppose Death Shroud are the best for "bodyguards" so he needs to be able to sweep with them.

 

I suppose that’s where the Atomantic Overcharge comes in. Give it Rage for a total of 6! attacks on the charge. That’s a S6 AP- Hammer of Wrath, followed by 6 swings at S10 AP2. An average of only 3 hits, but if your dice are hot...

For compariosn, a Contemptor Prime will get 5 attacks, with an average of 3.33 hits - not a lot more for the increased points cost. And a lower max threshold.

If you’re worried about return attacks, I’d take the +1 Initiative instead and (hopefully) kill a few models straight up. The Prime gets a very slight advantage here, as it will have a 6++ in combat.

 

Good math behind the logic, plus it does free up some points! +1I could be the difference in victory over a Prime dread or the like too so that's a solid option as well.

 

I suppose now the question just remains Grav, Melta or Plasma in the fists? Maybe even a Havoc Launcher too for lols?

Edited February 7, 2018 by Charlo

[LtDan]

Double post. Edited February 7, 2018 by LtDan

[Chaeron]

Quick question before I respond to the excellent comments:

 

Thinking of a Heavy Support Squad with Heavy Flamers... Hardened Armour yes or no? I know it had some good use in ZM and the 25pts saves me from Rending and other such nasties doesn't it? Alternatively, I could run a Sniper Vet Squad with a couple of Heavy Flamers thrown in as opposed to the full Heavy Flamer Squad?

 

I did consider the Fist & Blade, but that is a LOT of points... However I need this guy to never die and feel like Concussive will be useful. Maybe even a Chainfist to deal with any stray Dreads/ Doors?

Tartaros and Iron Halo is again crazy huge points just to sweep... But I suppose Death Shroud are the best for "bodyguards" so he needs to be able to sweep with them.

 

Just thought I'd pick up on these two bits Charlo, as others have touched on different bits...

 

Heavy Support Squad vs. Veterans, I can imagine either being effective given ZM rules and Chem Munitions - I don't know how effective this would be though, just given the limited range comparatively, and (general) inability to damage Dreads/Doors etc. I don't know how much Hardened Armour would come into play either (depending on what you are facing), but you know what others are likely to field! I'd be tempted by Veterans for having more bodies generally.

 

On the general composition - I've found Deathshroud and Grave Wardens very effective in ZM, and there are also benefits for the former being 'characters' depending on the ruleset used (and randomly generated effects). Other option if you didn't want your Praetor to die would be Cataphractii (and use Deathshroud as that too) - what you may lose in sweeping will hopefully make the unit more survivable. I would recommend either a Fist/Chainfist for doors or similar - for the attack bonus where applicable and for those things that require it - or, Meltabombs on the Deathshroud if you perhaps wanted to spread the cost?

[LtDan]

I'd go with the vets with few heavy flamers and maybe couple combis thrown in. Outflank and sniper is awesome in zm. And world burning shredding flamers for the win. You will never get a full squad of flamers in shot. As for hardened armour I've never bothered with it.

[LtDan]

My go to list is at 1.5k

 

Praetor tribune

2x5 death shroud with mb

10 vets. 2 heavy flamers. Srg. Aa axe and mb

7 gravewardens

2 flamestorm boxnaughts with chainfist

And melta gun.

 

Praetor goes with a unit of shroud. I always hope for world burner. It does pretty well.

[Caillum]

Why is World Burner so lauded for the Death Guard? Grave Wardens and Deathshroud have chem-munitions, and that gives them Shred already. Am I missing something?

[Charlo]

Thanks guys, great advice and some sage wisdom here.

 

Veterans seem to be the way to go - netting me mobility, firepower and access to a few specials. I was thinking about a Support squad with just normal flamers (as they would go to S5 in ZM) and also be a Scoring troops choice, but ultimately to avoid giving away the extra VP of pride I need to use those Vets. Plus as you say LtDan, I will seldom get all those flamer templates in range anyway!

 

I've posted a list here let me know your thoughts!

[LtDan]

Vets score anyway bud so no issue there. Also get the longer range bolter shoots when needed.

 

@ Caillum as death guard get shred with chem munitions they get +1str in zm due to the blast rule.

I bring a lot of blasts and templates to game's with my artillery. Shred is always nice with those too haha

[Chaeron]

Why is World Burner so lauded for the Death Guard? Grave Wardens and Deathshroud have chem-munitions, and that gives them Shred already. Am I missing something?

 

LtDan has touched on this, but as they can already have Shred from this option, it'd be an added bonus. That said, this would be a way around avoiding 'Gets Hot!', but I think you'd probably want both bonuses in any case if this was your Trait of choice? I've been weighing this up now, and I think I'd be leaning towards utilising both if I wanted to go for Chem Munitions (which I don't always do), or could perhaps consider a mix between the force (depending on how many this would actively come into play for). Given the robustness of Deathshroud, I wonder whether I'd be tempted to risk it... This might also be quite meta-specific, and depending on what you'd regularly face in ZM.

 

Personally, for the Warlord Trait, I'd be inclined to look towards Child of Terra (as you mentioned Charlo), given how much that would benefit your Praetor and Deathshroud. Or, I suppose there are a few others you might want to consider in the new rulebook? Target Priority or Coordinated assault could be useful, if you can pick from there!

Edited February 8, 2018 by Chaeron

[Charlo]

Yeah, thinking about it, World Burner probably isn't too necessary...

 

Great shout on the new rulebook Warlord Traits - you actually just prompted me to crack the plastic off mine and take a look!

 

Coordinated Assault Deathshroud (so re-rolling 1s to hit in Assault) would be Brutal for sure.

 

Immovable Object could be a real savior: FEARLESS & IWND on the Warlord, preventing any horrible sweeps (not to mention fluffy)!

[LtDan]

Maybe I should actually look at mine too....

[disease]

termite drill. discuss.

[infyrana]

Not looked at its rules or anything - does it count towards drop pod / deep strike numbers for splitting what comes on the table first turn?  Umm, what FoC place is it in ?

[Slips]

Not looked at its rules or anything - does it count towards drop pod / deep strike numbers for splitting what comes on the table first turn?  Umm, what FoC place is it in ?

Its separate from DPA.

 

So 3 Termites and 3 Pods = 2 Termites + 2 Pods T1.

 

Its also in Fast Attack and has 12 Slots but cannot carry bulky.

[LtDan]

Shame still can't be used in reaping then

[Gorgoff]

Shame still can't be used in reaping then

[Charlo]

Okay so the HQ for the campaign has been finalised!

 

Preator

Tartaros Armour

Thunder Hammer

Iron Halo

Digilasers

Combi-Bolter

 

Didn't go for a combi weapon as that 7pts is SUPER awkward.

 

Now, my vet squad is as follows:

 

9 Vets with Bolters

Sarge with Artificer and Scythe

 

I have a few points to play around with, but for a similar points cost (plus I have the models) I could run a Legion Terminator Squad with all Combi weapons, aces and a chain fist or two.

 

What do we think? Going FULL TERMINATORS Worth it? Which Combi would be best? Plasma or Melta?

[Chaeron]

Definitely a difficult decision there Charlo! I think my thoughts on this subject fall into two categories: you've got a great theme if it's nearly all Terminators, and you're benefiting from the Armour and heavier/special weaponry they can bring to bear, versus the greater number of bodies (potentially double?) of the Veterans, and whichever skill/trait you choose (and how they are subsequently geared - even with Bolters). I wonder whether the Terminators' weapons may be more useful, given what you're likely to face and them being more likely to survive to utilise what they are carrying within the confines of ZM? I'm generally always a fan of numbers of bodies, but I think with certain objectives in ZM too, and things like Doors, having access to those sorts of weapons would make me seriously consider taking them!

 

Just as we were touching on The Reaping, I'm debating possible 3k builds for this RoW: whilst I normally run Creeping Death, and am building that Orbital Assault list, this potentially offers something different that I don't normally utilise. My big issue would be the desire to use Mortarion, and whether a Spartan (or Vigilator perhaps?) might represent the best delivery mode for him and the inevitable retinue. I thought I'd put this out there with regard to recent successes with builds around this Rite, and see what others thought? I'm keen to utilise some Heavy Support squads (longer term, I'd like some Volkite Culverins!), and just present a nice Troop oriented list that is even larger than normal!

[LtDan]

I think the vets maybe more useful charlo. Sniper and outflank with a couple of plasma/melta guns. Get to a objective quicker. I've played alot of zm and getting up the board quickly is very useful. Something terms aren't great at.

 

On the reaping chaeron I run 6 troops choices at 3k. 2 tact squads to babysit back line and artillery and 2 5 man LASCANNON and 2 5 man culverins squads. They are very effective. Run with Rask/ siege breaker and a mos to great effect

[Chaeron]

I think the vets maybe more useful charlo. Sniper and outflank with a couple of plasma/melta guns. Get to a objective quicker. I've played alot of zm and getting up the board quickly is very useful. Something terms aren't great at.

 

Actually, I think that may represent a good compromise - although depending on the number of points available, you may not be able to get more than one special weapon in (bar combi-weapons). The only caveat is that it is somewhat dependant on deployment: you could be relatively close (or deploy aggressively - whether initially or to counter), but always good to have options to move up the board quickly. Worth trying both!

 

On the reaping chaeron I run 6 troops choices at 3k. 2 tact squads to babysit back line and artillery and 2 5 man LASCANNON and 2 5 man culverins squads. They are very effective. Run with Rask/ siege breaker and a mos to great effect

 

That's interesting - it's similar to what I was leaning towards! I was thinking of a number of larger squads to make use of the heavier weaponry, although recognise that the trade off for having a lot of bodies is that I wouldn't be left with a great deal of points for anything further armoured or in the form of anti-tank - I suppose between those units, it might cover a lot of bases, but might prove more fragile than if I say looked to Medusas or Sicarans? I might have to run through a few options and see what might work!

[LtDan]

Be happy to show you 3 and 4k lists I run. I started with bigger squads but found that the split firer of double small squads seemed to be more effective especially if lots of targets.as much fun as rolling 40 dice for the culverins is lol.

I also bring medusas, mortars, and dreads etc to bolster fire power. Always max out the heavy slots