Of Wolves and Men - A Platoon Discussion

[Frater Cornelius]

The humble Platoon. Seems like a decent Troops choice to me. While I am pleased with the performance of my Grey Hunters, they are a touch on the expensive side.

What I value about Troops is staying power and ability to kill other troops choices and transports in a timely manner.

The main part of my army are forward elements. Up to two full TWC units, two Iron Priests with Dogs, a Thunderlord, Grimnar in Stormrider, two IK Paladins and one IK Acheron are at my my disposal.

 

What I need to supplement this is a cheap unit that is easily accessible, is capable of killing chaff and roadblocks, block off alpha strikes, sit diligently on objectives, watch as TWC get THE GLORY and bust light transports as a bonus.

Platoon sounds quite reasonable to me. Would you buy them empty transports (like Taurox) for some extra dakka and objective grabbers, or too expensive? What HQ would you recommend? I can spend anything from 400-800pts.

 

Now, occasionally, FW is an option. In those cases, I have several units I am eying.

First, the Sabre Platform. Since 7ed it can not fire at ground targets anymore. However, you still get a T7 TLAC with Scout, Skyfire and Interceptor for 40pts to just sit on an objective, look out for flyers and shoot skimmers. You think it is worth it? My list has no AA otherwise, but it is not something I would go out of my way to get.

 

Second, while not part of the Platoon, I am interested in the Field Artillery. First, the Earthshaker Platforms. For 75pts you get what amounts to a Basilisk. Worth the investment?

The other one is the regular Field Artillery with either 4 shot mortar or a 5" Blast S6 AP4 Barrage shot. Both come in at 55pts.

They are reasonable tough, but are they worth the investment?

 

As I said, I am looking for massed infantry murder on durable platforms. Staying power above all.

 

Any input appreciated ;)

[WarriorFish]

Good to see you Immer! Chimeras are nice, but I feel the Platoon is all about the infantry on foot as part of their appeal is numbers and cost effectiveness and that is diluted by going transport happy. A CCS is essential to improve them with orders I think, as well as match the trooper theme.

 

I prefer cheaper squads as ever, so usually just a single weapon upgrade but there's nothing wrong with doubling up unless you buy the expensive weapons. I lean heavily towards anti-personel weapons to match the lasguns and focus them on only a few tasks - holding ground and destroying enemy infantry. Flamers are of course my favourite weapon ;) Quantity has a quality all of it's own after all...

 

Regarding the artillery I only ever hear good things about the Earthshaker platforms. Being able to receive orders alone is massive, but there are also benefits to not being a vehicle as well as the cost, though I'd spring for more crew. Artillery is always useful but even more so for a trooper heavy list as that is naturally more defensive in nature, also the perfect recipe for a cool arty regiment :tu:

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Fish - Well, never really left. Just been juggling more PA than usual. However, the Necron and upcoming Eldar release are forcing me to diversify, as much as I hate it

Could've actually just messaged you in fact. If memory serves, you are pretty much the only one helping outsiders anyway

Earthshaker can take orders? Holy crap, that is a new level of broken. Fire on my target and see the tears roll. Okay, Artillery is definitely an option, but points are tight when FW is allowed due to Sicaran Battle Tanks or Acheron Knight, both of which bring an amazing performance.

But back to non-FW games though. How big would you make the Platoon? full 50 dudesmen? 30 dudesmen? Definitely no less than 30 I would say, but not sure I want to go up to 50 unless I have plenty of points.

I would actually consider the AC on all units and possibly GL if there are points. With Prescience and Fire on my Target they might just take out a skimmer or flyer.

CCS and PC. I hesitate to make them forward elements. I mean, Meltas + Chimera seems like a no-brained in most situations, but so many Meltas and Chimera will definitely bloat it and might get them killed, depriving me of orders. Any load-out ideas?

Also, you think it is worth adding support characters? One Priest might be necessary so the Platoon does not leg it. But are Primaris worth it? 75pts are fairly steep, considering I can stick my own RP in there for just a few more points and give them ATSKNF and Ld10, potentially even saving on the Priest.

Thoughts?

[WarriorFish]

I'm not the FW artillery expert, but the platforms aren't vehicles so are valid targets for orders. I'm sure someone can pick out the rules for you as we have a few who use them here :)

 

For a solid Platoon 30 is good for a minimum when you're looking for numbers I agree, but I wouldn't take all five squads. I'd rather split the Platoon across two FOCs (not like we're short) and get another PCS to help with orders at that stage. Chimeras are good for your CCS if possible to help keep them alive and increase the order radius which is nice, I often build them for nothing more than surviving and issuing orders. Maybe a backup weapon or two in case the enemy get too close but your command squad is there to carry the day with vital orders more than anything else! PCS I keep cheap as possible so they can do their job without attracting too much attention - couple of flamers or grenade launchers maybe and a vox but sometimes I run them without upgrades.

 

Priests are great support units for larger squads, Primaris only for buffing units - usually a particular re-roll is what people want... If you've got Wolves in with the mix you may as well go for the Rune Priest if you want to help keep them in the fight but priests are useful for their hymns.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

How about something like this?

 

Commissar Yarrick

PCS - bare

3 Infantry Squads - flamer/AC

2 Earthshakers

 

This clocks in at 520 points. Yarrick gives you all the benefits of a Senior Officer and a Commissar so he will keep the blob in the fight and doing useful stuff through orders and can also issue orders to the artillery battery.

 

I've been playing around with Guard for a little bit now and I have found blobs of 30 work out pretty well for me. For 630 points you could add 30 conscripts with a priest to help out with board control.

[march10k]

I ran spammed mechanized platoons (9 chimeras) under the old codex, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with mounted BS3 squads...but as WF says, the appeal of platoons is numbers. Now that vets are only 1ppm more than inf (getting you +1bs and access to some nice options), there's no reason to "settle" for infantry squads unless you need more than six of them, which is why I now run mechanized vets instead of mechanized squads. I kind of like it this way, reminds me of 3rd edition when you had armored fist squads and infantry platoons.

I used to have a bassie, but I don't really get into artillery any more, a few dozen points more gets me AV 14/13 instead of 12/10, and no minimum range, either. I love the concept of the basilisk (you used to be able to target a neighboring table within your 120" max range...with dire consequences in tournaments when a bassie-fielding player lost all hope and spent the last few turns bombarding someone else's game!)

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, I was thinking of a platoon much like you said.

3 IS, each with AC and GL if points permit, one Vox

PCS, Vox, not sure about loadout

CCS, again not sure. I might just give them all Mortars or AC and call it a day. If I give them all ACs and GL, add two Wyvern and a Priest and I will be at 480pts of the top of my head. Two full GH units with 2 Meltas, CM and three pods (one empty) cost me 465pts.

The question is whether a CCS, PCS, three IS and two Wyvern have greater utility than two GH and three pods when I am looking at staying power, scoring unit killer and objective camper.

 

Once I add my TWC and the obligatory RP, I will have 175pts left in a non-FW list. Those probably have to come from the IG side.

 

Edit: March, I am a bit scared that Chimera spam will fall victim to S6-7 spam and the dudesmen inside do not really have the mass to survive.

Well, on the other hand, I know that amongst your favourite tactics is to give them FS and AC and let them camp cover while transport goes around annoying people.

Worth a though :P

[hendrik]

guardsmen make perfect allies for the wolves!

however, if you're podding i advise against the eartshaker platforms, chances are high you end up shooting some of your own grey hunters! same for simple (inaccurate) mortar teams. I think wyverns make a far better deal, due to their accuracy.

[march10k]

Well...S7 (better than S6) has to hit...say BS4?  Then it needs a 5 to strip a HP...each shot has a 22% chance of stripping one HP...divided by 3HP...that's about 14 shots to kill one chimera, and S6 is half as good (28/29 shots)....if you're fielding chimera spam, S6/7 spam is the last thing you're worried about!  When I showed up with 9 chimeras and 7-8 other vehicles, opponents drowned in despair, lol...now, in this edition, I field fewer vehicles and fewer men (since I have multiple 150+ point models in HQ), and my opponents freak out less, but I actually win more with Pask as my HQ and mechanized vets as my troops...but 17 AV12/AV14 vehicles made a dramatic psychological impact on my opponents!!!  I mean, I wouldn't have much trouble designing a deathwing list with fewer than 17 models....and I was running 17 tanks and 75 infantry!!!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

One of the uses I see for the platoon, is as a weapons platoon. The 2 compulsory infantry squads, with an AC HWTs, 2 Mortar Squads, and the PCS with a AC HWT. Sitting the whole platoon behind an aegis line with an ammo dump for re-rolls of 1's to hit, and putting the CCS behind an aegis line with a quadgun, for some air defense being fired by the CC. Also take a Master of Ordinance for additional fire power. 

 

I plan on using this arrangement to get some good extra firepower. The autocannons should discourage light vehicles from getting too close, while the mortars hammer on things from afar. This would be great for hammering on infantry, especially hordes. 

[WarriorFish]

march is right, Chimera spam takes saturation to the next level. Even if your opponent is well prepared they will never be prepared enough for the number you can bring to the table if you wish. Same with many things; even if it's not the biggest, best or toughest take enough and they will gain a new type of strength :)

[Frater Cornelius]

I have been writing a few lists and I have come across one major issue. Only a supported Platoon is a good one. Pods usually have greater staying power since they are AV12 and generally ignored and Marines are still T4 and 3+. A naked Platoon will not outperform those.

However, when a Platoon is supported with some sort of shenanigans, it becomes a major pain in the rear. Maybe I will need to restructure my list in order to accommodate it with higher efficiency.

[WarriorFish]

Platoons are a Troop choice so will never be the main event but as you said with proper support they can form the bedrock of a list. Guard is an army that benefits from combined arms more than most so that's always a good idea. There are of course some units that work better than others but generally you can't go wrong with most additions :)

 

For the record; slapping Russ tanks in a list always works, and Fast Attack options mesh very well with Platoons - mechanised or not.

[Frater Cornelius]

As far as 'Driving Primarchs' goes, I was looking at the Eradicator, simply because it is the cheapest. S6 large blast is nothing to scoff at. Add HB sponsons and you have very solid 140pts sitting on an objective and piling wounds on things.

The good thing is that I do not need IG to do the big busting. S10 TWC handle that fairly well. IG need to kill mass, sit on objectives and kill stuff that TWC can not be bothered with. I think two Eradicators and a Wyvern Battery of two will do the job fairly well.

 

A possible list might look something like this:

 

 

CotGW (the main hammer and advancing blob of doom)

Wolf Lord - Runic Armour, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf, Krakenbone Sword (basically, S6 AP2 MC at I5, 2+/3++)

Rune Priest - Runic Armour, Force Axe, ML2, Bike

 

Iron Priest - Thunderwolf, 4 Wolves

Iron Priest - Thunderwolf, 4 Wolves

 

5 TWC - 1 Storm Shield, 1 Power Fist

1 TW Pack Leader - 1 Stormshield

 

CAD (Priests go with two Platoons, giving me two small-ish objective blobs; both PCS and CCS will camp cover and provide a bit of token fire support while also sitting on objectives; LR will do the same, everything here is to hold objective and remove pesky scorers and enemy Troops)

CCS - AC, Vox

Priest

Priest

 

Platoon 1

PCS - Vox, AC

IS1 - GL, Vox, MB

IS2 - GL

 

Platoon 2

PCS - Vox, AC

IS1 - GL, Vox, MB

IS2 - GL

 

2 Wyvern

Leman Russ Eradicator - HB sponsons

Leman Russ Eradicator - HB sponsons

 

1850pts

 

 

 

This is a first draft. No sugar coating please. I can handle criticism ;)

[WarriorFish]

Your HS units are solid, they will murder infantry in great swathes for you which will be very useful. This lets your Platoons be a bit more versatile with their GLs but I wonder if some HWTs might be better? For example autocannons to pop open transports and the like.

[Frater Cornelius]

I was thinking GL because they will need to move the first three turns. It may be mitigated a bit by the Forward for the Emperor order and just move regular dudesmen while HWT stands still. I will look into point allocation, because it would cost me 20 more points to accommodate 4 AC instead of GL.