Questions about new chapter lore

[Balkor Wolf]

o/ Lore Writes

 

First of all, I've been looking over this section of the forum a lot over the past week or so before I signed up and would like to say I have seen some very inspiring and interesting works so I would like to thank you all for some great reading and helping me to decide to sign up to these forums. 

 

I'm currently in the process of designing my own chapter, and I want to put in a lot of work regarding the lore and history (Altough it is going to be part of the 26th founding, so maybe not so much on the history since AFAIK its only been a few centuries passed since that time).  The chapter is called Midnight Wolves, and they are a successor chapter to the Dark Angels, I know the name suggest space wolves but I used to play DA and I would prefer having an affiliation to them. Now for the questions!

 

1) First up is the actual formation of the chapter, for whatever reason the high lords decided they need more forces.  How would they go around to first selecting what gene seed they should use? Do they need to get permission from the DA to create a chapter based on their gene seeds, or alternatively would they prefer to go straight for Ultra Marines with their background of following the codex to the letter?

 

2) Once the DA successors have been created, would the DA instantly accept them as their own and bring their chapter masters into the inner circle to tell them all about the fallen? Additonally to that, would this chapter also be considered as Unforgiven considering how new they are?

 

3) And finally, a lot of stuff I've read about the formation of new chapters is that they create 1000 marines, which suggests 10 full battle companies and appropiate support staff.  My thoughts though is that wouldn't they only produce 800? Surely they couldn't have a full veteran company straight out of their over sized test tubes, and the same goes for the scout company as the chapter would have to go out to find their own new recruits once sent on their merry way.

 

Sorry for a bit of a long ramble of questions, just stuff I wanted to clarify before I get more in depth with my chapter, hopefully soon you will all start to see some results of it around here

 

 

[Grotsmasha]

1. The High Lords decree a Founding, all Geneseed is considered and chosen based on the need of the Founding. The High Lords do not need the DA's permission to use their geneseed, in the current Codex there is a line about "Legion building" accusations, and how the High Lords are wary to use DA geneseed.

 

2. Originally it was only the 2nd Founding Chapters (those split from the Legions) who were the Unforgiven, those who know the secret, GW has never directly contradicted this, but it is now commonly believed amongst the fans the The Unforgiven encompass' all DA geneseed Chapters who are aware of their lineage. Some who don't know their lineage would not be involved in The Hunt, such as the (rumoured) Angels of Vigilance.

 

3. Typically a "training cadre" from parent chapter remain in the new chapter as the veteran's and command structure. They train the new marines the way they were trained, front the start, as aspirants, the trials, the whole nine yards. There would absolutely be a full scout company, potentially a 1/4 to 1/2 strength veteran company. I don't believe a new chapter would wait until they were full strength to deploy, they would have the battle companies for sure, and at least 1 or 2 reserve companies.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Balkor Wolf]

[Lots of useful stuff]

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

Thanks! Very useful information.  Still awaiting to get a hold of the new SM codex which I should hopefully have next week so maybe should have held off my questions until then but you have been a great help. =)

[Conn Eremon]

1. The High Lords love the Ultramarines, and always have. Roughly 60% of the Chapters come from their gene-seed, and one can't even point at their larger original Legion size as a reason for this ten thousand years later. This doesn't preclude the use of the Dark Angels, though. As for how they go about selecting and do they seek permission, we have nothibg to tell us the truth. We can guess, though, and your Chapter can reflect your theories, as my own reflect mine. We have Successors of Successors. What relevance would there be in that if the sources of the gene-seed were not in some manner involved? I doubt the High Lords would request, but they might notify. It might be a formal tradition to announce to the future progenitor that their genetic legacy will bear fruit in another.

 

2. As Grotsmasha, the Unforgiven once meant the Dark Angels and their 2nd Founding Successors only. However, the lore is riddled with later Founding Unforgiven that put lie to that old claim. The conclusion lies with what you want your Chapter to be. One thing to note though is that even if your Chapter is not of the Unforgiven, the Fallen still exist, other sons of the Lion still are Unforgiven, and both of these things can still haunt your Chapter.

 

3. The training cadre mentioned is, as far as I have been able to gather, solidly a fan theory. It's a good one, I'm a believer myself. And it ties into #1, how involved is the progenitor. Though something I have decided to explore is the idea of the training cadre being of another force other than the progenitor. If the Dark Angels are not trusted, why not send a training cadre from a different, more trusted source? That is something to consider.

 

But maybe they do just give you a thousand newborn Marines and send you off. Maybe the Codex equilibrium is supposed to occur later, after a few wars to season the men. Maybe the original veteran company isn't on par with everyone else's because of this. We don't know. What do you want for your Chapter?

[TDF]

1. The High Lords love the Ultramarines, and always have. Roughly 60% of the Chapters come from their gene-seed, and one can't even point at their larger original Legion size as a reason for this ten thousand years later. This doesn't preclude the use of the Dark Angels, though. As for how they go about selecting and do they seek permission, we have nothibg to tell us the truth. We can guess, though, and your Chapter can reflect your theories, as my own reflect mine. We have Successors of Successors. What relevance would there be in that if the sources of the gene-seed were not in some manner involved? I doubt the High Lords would request, but they might notify. It might be a formal tradition to announce to the future progenitor that their genetic legacy will bear fruit in another.

IA9 says that the Astral Claws must have been held in 'high regard' to have three successor chapters, implying it is a great honour to have your geneseed chosen to create a new chapter. So, if the High Lords do contact the parent chapter it is to honour and congratulate rather than to ask permission.

[Beta galactosidase]

1) it seems like while they have the last word, High Lords have less involvement than the Adeptus Mechanicus. This especially because they pick more specifically than just a chapter, they pick a single marine's worth of zygotes. The tech priests pick based on which single zygote they think will function the best, and it probably isn't until the High Lords ask which chapter it came from that the zygotes having come from the DA tithe is even mentioned.

 

2). The Dark Angels do not ever need to know. The gene seed come from the vaults on Mars. The High Lords and tech priests can do it all from start to finish, and they have every reason to not tell the Dark Angels about it.

 

3). This is one of the most interesting things you can write about. As for producing only 800 marines, the articles say they produce 1000 sets of gene seed, not necessarily 1000 marines. They could have 10 marines and 990 sets of unused gene seed, if they liked.

 

However, if you think about it, all 1000 sets of gene seed will eventually be in scouts. You could have 1000 scouts at once. The scout company is the only company with no fixed size, so it could just be very very being to begin with. They can start with a single 1000 person a out company and gradually fill up the other companies.