Is There a "Best," or "Worst" Chapter Tactic?

[The Nookie]

Hey everybody! I was looking through the different horus heresy books, and even though I know what legion I want to play with I was curious on one major question: Is there a "best" and/or "worst" chapter tactic from the forge world horus heresy game books?

If you have any input and/or reasoning I would love to hear your thoughts!

[ROBOcaster]

My legion is the best. Any of you weak flesh-bag want to say otherwise can come talk to me and Orthcaran Battle Tank.

 

Iron Hands, and hearts of stone!

Flesh is weak, and so are your bones!

[The Nookie]

Flesh does make an easy target for my World Eaters with furious charge, hatred, and rage ;p 

[Raktra]

Why, the Berserkers of Uran, of course!

Okay I'm lying. Seriously though, Iron Hands have to be #1, with Fists about a millimetre behind.

[Moonstalker]

Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, and Alpha Legion have to be jockeying for the top three spots.  Emperor's Children and Sons of Horus might be competing for the bottom two.  The Book 1 legions have really suffered from power creep.

[Raktra]

I think the Emperor's Children edge out as slightly superior only because of the characters (well okay, Eidolon) that can make use of their RoW. But that's probably a separate issue.

[shandwen]

IH, AL, and IF have distinct advantages over everone else, but RG is very close in power mainly ttu very good units and a couple good characters.

[The Nookie]

I definitely can see why Alpha legion would be up in the top tier, infiltrate, banestrike, headhunters, all awesome. Love the Alpha Legion. I can see some of the resons behind the Iron hands, and Imperial Fists, but like what specifically makes them so much more powerful? I guess i'm just not seeing the specifics lol

[Raktra]

Iron Hands - harder to remove FNP, and harder to kill in general. Plus their outflanking tricks are crazy good in their RoW. Fists are stupendously accurate in a setting where there's bolters en masse. It's all about who rules the shooting phase, basically.

[Slips]

Iron Hands infantry being effectively T5 Against all forms of shooting; thus harder to wound and only  S9, 10 and D negating FNP saves. It also makes any Iron hands Bike units effectively T6 due to bike infantry being T5 Already. And in a system where its mostly marines shooting at other marines, this visibly increases their lifespan.

 

Imperial Fists mostly due to +1 BS when firing Bolters. Meaning Tac Blobs are now 20 Man BS5 Squads and anything with BS5 with a Bolter gets bumped up.

Performing a Fury of the Legion attack at BS5 (thus hitting on 2+) is a vast improvement over BS4 (hitting on 3's).

 

IF also get some nice Wargear in the Vigil Pattern Stormshield meaning you can field 3++ Terminators en masse.

 

Theres also Sigismund.

[The Nookie]

Damn valid points all around, I guess, being a fan of traitor legions did make me overlook those points lol. Damn thats all really good points.

 

Is the reasoning behind the Alpha Legion being good down to what I was thinking? Banestrike, headhunters, infiltrate? 

[Slips]

Damn valid points all around, I guess, being a fan of traitor legions did make me overlook those points lol. Damn thats all really good points.

 

Is the reasoning behind the Alpha Legion being good down to what I was thinking? Banestrike, headhunters, infiltrate? 

Its the Flexibility of the Alpha Legion thats their Main selling point. You can Tailor each of your lists around: Infiltrate, Scout, Tank Hunters or Outflank since you can chose one to apply globally to all Legion Astartes: Alpha Legion Models (meaning even Units taken from Rewards of Treason).

 

Banestrike is, imo, pretty meh. Nice to have but its a weaker form of rending.

 

If you want Devastating Alpha Strike, you look up the Raven Guard with Alvarex Maun, Decapitation Strike and Mor Deythan.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Iron hands because good characters, primarch, and amazing legion tactics. Extremely scary and downright op against armies like imperial guard. Special units are alright immortals seem bad gorgons seem good.

 

Imperial fist: amazing legion tactics, great special terminator gear, awsome special characters. Aside from being unwieldy dorn seems good. Special units templars are good phanalx are okay. Almost no restrictions or drawbacks compared to others.

 

Alpha legion: absolutely amazing chapter tactics. Don't like infiltrate fine have scout or a bajillion diffrent rules. Extremely flexible. Special characters good. Dynat is really good along with exodus. Primarch might just be the best one of the best around because of cheapness and utility. Special units laermans have multiplie personalities; they want to be close but have a conversion Beamer. Head hunters are good. Row is amazing.

 

In a close second I think salamanders, raven guard, and and word bearers with deamons. the middle are iron warriors, night lords, death guard, and word bearers without deamons.

 

In last I feel the original four are the weakest aside from the death guard.

 

Emperors children: a close combat army with very little benefits to cc. The challenge rule is their bane in my opinion. Row seems pretty good. Eidiolins seems to be the only good special characters. Maybe Saul for lower point games. Special units are pretty bad or over costed. Fulgrim seems to be very good.

 

Sons of horus: good legion rules. Bad row. Good special characters especially malohoarghaost are good. Special units: reavers are the best. Justarien are waaaaay to expensive. I heard that they were the elite but Jesus Christ. At least make them two wounds or something. Horus is awsome but extremely expensive.

 

World eaters: they are really good at close combat no doubt there. There problem is getting there. Funny enough their future selves, bezerkers have the same problem. Now unlike chaos the legion has a way to get them there. The problem is that it's too expensive. If you want an assualt transport your setting yourself 250 points back at the minium. Legion row is awsome. Out of the special characters Khârn seems the best. Out of the special units red butchers are awsome while rampagers aren't. Angrons is great at cc but that about it. He doesn't help your troops in anyway. Though that how it should be. But it would have been nice to have him give zealot or soemthing to people around him.

 

That's my take on it.

[Brofist]

Don't forget the Word Bearers. They have some really solid units, practically fearless troops, lots of access to wizards, and chaos daemons as allies.

For me the top legions shake out to be Fists, Hands, Alphas, and Bearers. Admech as well, but it's not a legion. Depending on what you want out of them some are better than others. Honorable mentions to RG, IWs, and Salamanders for some neat units and tricks, but not enough to really put them at the same level as the other 4.

The Book 1 legions are generally the worst off

e: If a legion is battle brothers with admech, that's a really strong selling point. That brings up the IWs and helps keep IHs on the top 4.

[The Nookie]

Makes you wonder how good the ultramarines might be with the new book lol definitely gonna be interesting!

[Slips]

Makes you wonder how good the ultramarines might be with the new book lol definitely gonna be interesting!

For all we know, the new book might re-balance the sub-par legions and bring them into line with the others.

[Raktra]

From what I've been told (I know a guy), no more Invisible Lorgar. That shifts a lot of things around.

[Slips]

From what I've been told (I know a guy), no more Invisible Lorgar. That shifts a lot of things around.

...You.

 

...You Have and Inside source at Forgeworld Proper?!

 

/glares jealously

[The Nookie]

What do you mean by invisible Lorgar? How did I miss that lol...then again very few people play 30k where I am so if I don't like a legion I don't see much of them lol

[Slips]

What do you mean by invisible Lorgar? How did I miss that lol...then again very few people play 30k where I am so if I don't like a legion I don't see much of them lol

Yeah, Lorgar Transcended gets to choose his powers, one of them being invisibility. If you want to be "That Guy" then the Word Bearers are the army for you only because of Invisi-Gar

[Raktra]

 

From what I've been told (I know a guy), no more Invisible Lorgar. That shifts a lot of things around.

...You.

 

...You Have and Inside source at Forgeworld Proper?!

 

/glares jealously

 

I'm a man of many means!

 

Incidentally, Invisigar led to the best pillowfisted primarch fight ever when I played him. Turns 1-7 in combat, he didn't wound Ferrus and Ferrus didn't hit him, and the rest consisted of WB Terminators blinding themselves trying to fight Gorgons.

[Brofist]

I forgot to mention the Questoris Knight list. Also not a legion, but definitely up there with Word Bearers in terms of making most legion lists struggle.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Please note this is coming from a reasonable competitive opinion based around a competitive and adaptive local meta. For those less competitive and interested in just playing with what models they like, the opinions briefly mirror those of the above; but as a high tier/top table kind of gamer, opinions differ.

 

About the worst legion rules are Iron Warriors, Emperor's Chidlren or World Eaters. All are rectified however by having absolutely boss units and their Primarchs are among the most powerful in the game;

 

Angron is a one man killing machiine, capable of killing half a dozen without breaking a sweat, and the one typical threat to Primarchs; Contemptor Dreads; well, his ~9-10 S9 AP2 Armourbane attacks with rerolls to hit ensures that he can tear apart squads and vehicles alike. The other threat is getting him caught in a multi combat which (despite overkill) can see him multichallenged; his Lord of the Red Sands lets him just blitz through them (because S8 I7 base ensure that anything that's not Sevatar or an Emperor's Children Praetor is dead anyway; and being fair, despite striking simultaneously, he's not going really going to worry about what damage they can do; they don't have Eternal Warrior, and are gibbed on a single failed 4++). That leaves only Primarchs capable of killing him. His 3+ Armour isn't an issue really. Power Swords still need a 6+ to wound him, and unless his bodyguard of Red Butchers are dead, they can't attack him when he's in a challenge anyway. The obvious downside is that he doesn't really buff his army; but being fair, do you really need more than a 12" bubble of fearless anyway? It is possibly tied with Haywire for most powerful rule in the game. Considering that you can slingshot that affect as only one model needs to be within range of for the buff, providing you can keep up with his Spartan, you're golden.

 

Perturabo; one word; 1st turn reserves, and Deep Striking Terminators. Load up on combimeltas watch your opponent weep (because you will be taking a Master of Signal/Comms Relay fortification, aren't you?). Oh, and your entire army is stubborn (when they ignore already half the causes for morale checks, this means that they're going NOWHERE). His Force multiplier brings a D3 S9 AP2 blasts). To give you encouragement for aggressive play, you can also cut apart enemy in an assault with furious charge. His 2+/3++ is among the best in the game (because of a T6 6 wound IWND Chassis. Sure, he's "slow" (for a Primarch), but that's still I5 S7 Ap2; note that he gets the benefit of Furious Charge, as do his Dreadnoughts. He makes Deathstorm Drop Pods reasonable viable options, because they don't need Drop Pod Assault either. His ranged attacks are on point; that's likely 15 Dead MEQ's a game from just his Wrist Cannon; so there's another 150pts. He comes with a Nuncio, and if he wishes, he can make his unit BS5 (because BS5 Tyrant Terminators are ace). His immunity to Blind and Concussion is alright, but kind of wasted on him; IMHO; because he's either always got the Forgebreaker, or is AP2 anyway, and his main threats with Concussion are Thunder Hammers; which are only rarely taken due to their limited effectiveness. And Blind, well; I5 is still a decent chance of passing. If you also ascribe to the fact that the Dedicated Transport doesn't add to his Points Allowance for Lord of War, in a 3000 point game, you can bring 3 Lord of War equivalents; the Tormentor, Perturabo, and either the Primus Redoubt or the Aquila Strongpoint for further D-weapon madness (of course, that does leave you only ~1300pts to build an army, but who cares? You've got First turn Deep Striking Terminators.

 

Red Butchers and Tyrant Terminators are also reasonably often chosen units; the former are immensely powerful combatants; their movement and scoring penalties rarely apparent due to having a pimped out Spartan; and 5 WS5 S5 Attacks apiece which can reroll failed charges are BRUTAL. Tyrant Terminators have Cyclone Missile Launchers. I don't just mean 1 in 5, like a normal Terminator Squad, but they have one each. Compare a 10 Man Missile Launcher armed Heavy Support Squad; 285pts, gets you 10 BS4 Missiles. 295pts gets you that same shooting power, relentless, plus 5 Combi-Bolters, and powerfists, with Night Vision and Split Fire special rules on top of a 2+/4++ Chassis, with Wrecker meaning that they're pretty good at knocking down Bastions; and as Elite Terminators, are allowed tobecome scoring (despite lacking Implacable Advance) as a result of Pride of the Legion or Deep Strike into vulnerable target locations thanks to Orbital Assault/Perty. As they have such powerful shooting, people do tend to forget their ability in an assault too - they have S8, or with Perty, S9 assaults after a first turn Deep Strike during turn 2.

 

This makes them much stronger.

 

Emperor's Children too; they have a weak set of rules, but Crusader can be used in defence to being swept, and I5 challenges can give you an edge, but their real strength is by taking Maru Skara to outflank really powerful units like Legion Dreads, or Seekers; and Palatines lead by Eidolon is one of the most lethal units in the game. Fulgrim; not as powerful as he could be, compared to later Primarchs, but with a choice of additional Warlord Trait (Strategic Planning makes no mention of it being in place of the normal roll); because not only do you have a half dozen Dreadnoughts and a Squad of Plasma armed Seekers Outflanking and autoappearing Turn 2 behind enemy lines, you've got 3 infiltrating units guaranteed. Then in combat, against all but Primarch's and the odd special character he's running with 8 WS8 S7 AP2 Attacks which thanks to overkill spills onto other models. On top of that, free +2 to combat res means you're likely to get a load more sweeps, your reserves are likely to occur (so don't Outflank those Melta equipped Jetbikes, Deep Strike them), or have fun with some dropping some Kharybdis monstrosities while having your Scoring units move forward later in the game (rerolling your successful rolls to keep your 2 scoring tactical squads in reserve away from enemy Objective killing squads). With a 2+/3++ on top of his T6 6 wound chassis as well, Fulgrim is extremely tanky, while in a niche role, even his Plasma Grenade can kill a few Solar Auxilia (his Charger being limited AP5, despite S5 and Shred halving its effectiveness).

 

Now, the well known "good" ones; Iron Hands followed by Imperial Fists;

 

-1 versus shooting is nearly +T. That's good, right? Wrong. People don't win games by taking pot shots with Bolters. That's why Tacticals kind of suck; they have Fury of the Legion to make their 24" shooting actually slightly capable of something against normal legions. It's still an annoyance to me that in 30K, the writers saw fit to provide a "unit tax" of overcosted M"S"U (supposedly small) Tactical Marines; the problem being was that all armies had the same "unit tax", so it wasn't so much a tax, instead an artificial points inflation that serves no purpose. To put it simply, think about your job. Imagine you get paid £25K a year. You get a pay rise to 30K a year; but everything else costs 20% more too as a result of inflation. What real gain was there in that 20% pay rise? None whatsoever. The same applies here.

 

At the start, people tried to mitigate the cost of these unit taxes by actually building their list around them. Instead of 10 Man, they took advantage of 20man units. They can put an Apothecary with it? AWESOME! Some people even took the hit and dropped the cost of a further 4 marines and gave them BP,Bolter and CCW, while Nuncio's and Vexilla were standard kit, alongside Artificer Armour for both the Sergeant and the Apothecary, which took Power Weapons to give them an extra edge in CC. Lets not get into the details of people applying Force Multipliers like Chaplains or Forge Lords, or Librarians either; but suddenly, people were seeing these 300pts of tax turn into a 550pts of marine hordes. This was the days of the Ork Marines. This was at a stage when people thought that power gaming was taking as much Terminator Armour as possible and walking forwards hoping that their opponent didn't pack a Plasma.

 

Then, as the game progressed, and people began to realise that basically, Iron Hands were king at tactical spam, the meta evolved. People began to dip more resources into the game. Typhons, and other heavy vehicles came to the fore. The spam of 5HP AV15 Melta immune Spartans was at its most powerful as Salamander or White Scar playing Space Marines used to the dominance of melta and the combined arms drop pods/bikers approach being 'king' suddenly found Orbital Assault, the ease of access to Armoured Ceramite and the lack of bikers (or rather their lack of ability to be used like they're experienced with; i.e cheap nippy scoring shooty units, rather than small dedicated tank hunting or melee assassin units).

 

So, the Spartan is king for a bit. People can't find much to kill such vehicles; either D-weapons, haywire, or meltabombs. The latter has an issue; it's a vaguely only available to a melee only unit, and by the time a Spartan has actually gotten close enough to be assaulted by non jump troops, it's actually close enough to unload its payload of terminators. These were especially useful, as Iron Hands lost their bonus toughness in an assault. All the other "benefits" of being an Iron Hand limited your running and sweeping assault, and limited your cover.

 

This evolved meta meant that with your main strength nullified, you were actually worse than any other legion; your main resilience of higher FNP threshold limit being lost typically alongside the ignored armour save, meaning you're stuck with maybe a 5+ cover, or 4+ at a push, which you couldn't go to ground on. Tactical Squads, whose strength has no evolved into holding objectives can't even run forwards late game and then go to ground on an objective. So, the evolution tried to happen; Head of The Gorgon gave your infantry a relatively short ranged Heavy Weapon (actually kind of alright, and effective against SpartanSteamrollers or RaiderRush); but Land Raiders are hardly having to fight for slots with up to 3 available as a Heavy Support (albeit Squadron) and available 2 a penny elsewhere as Dedicated Transports. Blessed Autosimulacra is okayish, but only going off 1/battle is pretty bad to rely on, especially when most things will be dead before it has a chance to roll. Some notable exceptions for it; pseudo IWND on a Super Heavy or a Flyer is always good news. The trick with Head of the Gorgons most powerful ability, however, is Outflanking Tanks. But to get the benefit of that, you want high damage/threat vehicles; and taking as much of those as possible to benefit from hitting the side armour. Where does that leave your infantry? Shivering in the cold watching the tank fight, while the combat units dedicated to mashing infantry, like pretty much any non-Iron Hands squad moderately kitted for an assault in your opponents list make a beeline for your poorly defended home objectives. Niche access to a T8 Castellax, but the Castellax at T7 anyway isn't exactly  a target for bolters. It just makes it more slightly more resilient to things like Plasma wound strippers; but at the same time, unless kitting it out with Darkfire Cannons (or the cheaper option of a multimelta) it wants to be in an assault, where it loses it's T8, and it's just as susceptible to Powerfists anyway. Throw in the woeful list of allies; Emperor's Children who bring very little other than At-Initiative AP5 chargers (i.e in an assault where you don't want to be) and Crusader (to make you more effective in sweeping advances, which you must take a leadership test to do in any case making it harder to do for you), and Mechanicum (who are much, much better at killing Marines than heavy tactical based legion lists ever will be.

 

Big heavy tanks like uparmoured Spartans die very quickly to the evolved meta, which takes them quite seriously, with some lists taking upwards of 12 Haywire capable weapons.

 

In short, Iron Hands don't get much benefit versus Plasma Blasts, Scorpius, Vindicators, Typhons, Masters of Signal  not to mention assault etc, all of which are quite popular.

 

Now, for their special units; erm, Immortals. I'm sure they have a niche (maybe in Zone Mortalis), but mostly, just use Breachers for them. Breachers are mediocre units as it is, but don't have to pay through the nose for the exact same defensive suite, let alone having to pay for a special rule that actually makes them even worse. Saving 20points on an Apothecary isn't a valid use of points, IMHO.

 

Gorgonators, though. These are pretty good. But, personally, aside from bringing Graviton, they don't actually bring much to the table aside from being cheaper for their abilities. Their inability to strike with I4 AP3 like normal terminators mean that they're less capable than normal terminators and means that they're relegated to killing normal MEQ's but not elite assault units. Normal Terminators in that capacity also have Plasma Blasters AND Cataphractii Armour which allows them to withstand enemy terminators. Throw in limited access to combi-weapons (hammerbearer only), and that you can dip the points into a Primus Medicae for the same effect as the Gorgonators and things stack in favour of normal terminators. Sure, it costs slightly more immediately, but at 375 for the 10 Gorgonators and 350 for the 10 normal Terminators, you can hopefully see where I mean that in the long run, at average sized games, a normal Terminator Squad is the better option than Gorgonators.

 

My one exception to this is in superhuge games, when you afford to run an entire squad with attached Terminator Forge Lord and Ferrus, with a Siege Breaker with the Grav Gauntlet run with Head of the Gorgon giving you a up to 8 Tank Hunting Graviton Shots. It's hardly effecient, but turn 2, coming on with 8 Tank Hunting Graviton shots shuts down anything like a Knight or rips through even a Titan. Double up with a Glaive or Falchion to strip wounds beforehand.

 

This segues nicely; Ferrus - 415 for a pretty beastly statline; 2+/3++ on his T7/W6 with -1 Strength from shooting makes him one of the hardest, while 4 S7 AP2 attacks (I'm not personally a fan of having him go in challenges; leave that to his fist/hammer armed termi sergeants or other IC's attached, so no real need for his hammer; concussion and strikedown are terrible rules which rely on your opponent surviving, and +3 strength isn't going to make much difference unless you feel like wasting his potential and putting him into an assault with a praevian/castellax squad. AP1 can rip through Dreads where his S7 can't (don't ever consider Smashing it), but that's why you have chainfists and meltabombs and 2 graviton guns. The important bits about his shooting are the graviton (+2 haywire blasts = 2 less HP to worry about) and the Plasma blasters (4 dead marines). As for buffs; he provides IWND, which stacks strangely with Blessed Autosimulacra (two different rolls, one on a 5+ one on a 6+ to regen HP) on heavy tanks, and a 6+ FNP to your marines; which you're already doing with Apothecary spam. That doesn't really mean you can save points on the apothecaries, though, because FNP6+ is dogfilth. It might mean that fringe units can survive slightly longer, but the important ones need that additional benefit.

 

Orth however; is immense. Maybe he'll get told he can't be a Warlord in future (something that was mentioned a few weeks ago during a games nigh at my LGS that didn't attend) and his Trait rules folded into something else. Until then, you get a cheap Warlord who makes your tanks better (oh, hey is that your infantry getting neglected again? You betcha). My favourite use is to put him in a Caestus and having a Ram party, making that Caestus tactic even more viable. Autek Mor; you want him for the ability to gain 2 Preferred Enemy units and Fearless. His reasonable stat line is wasted however. 3 S6 (preferred enemy) attacks are alright, as is +1 from the Servo arm; but if you wanted an assault unit, I don't really think that this is the guy I'd choose; something like a Praetor with Twin Master Crafted Claws and Digital Lasers gets 7 Attacks on the charge, with a 75% chance to wound, 88% if you throw in a Rad nade Forge Lord like any decent assault unit should. The best I can say for him is that he's a "budget" character, for when you can't stretch to the big boys.

 

Imperial Fists; I have very little dealing with; our only IF player works nights and weekends, making it rare to get him to come down, and he's also a fairly poor player. That said; better accuracy at Bolters is a wash. I've spoken at length about how Bolters don't work in 30K. The one exception to that is Sniper Vets, mainly because Sniper and also because Praevians/Mechanicum/expected Daemon Monstrous Creatures/Ogryns. Stubborn in fortifications/barricades. This can go 2 ways; either you blow your fortifications slot on an Aegis Line for Stubborn and hand your opponent the games initiative, or you hope that there's a decent amount of fortifications present. Personally, I think you should blow your slot on a Primus Redoubt (although how that fits in a tournament setting god only knows) or an aquila strongpoint (much easier). Of course, there, the onus is just on keeping it defended from the enemy while it blows stuff up, and your opponent doesn't care so much about kiling the guys on the side, and rather the building itself. So, that's a wash. Blood and Honour isn't as bad as it could be; you're not forced to accept (the equivalent of your mates letting you walk away in shame when the guy you've just been squaring up playing the hardman offers you outside), but my main complaint is that it flies in the face of World Eaters, whose very best combatants get no benefits for the most part against the majority of their challenges. WS5 or WS7, it makes no difference against WS4 challengefeed sergeants, while Blood and Honour gives you a straight up ~22-25% increase in accuracy. And of course, the Bitter End isn't a benefit of course, but allows your opponent another shooting phase during a random turn game.

 

The Stone Gauntlet; gives you T5 and Hammer of Wrath with Shield equipped units. Unlike IH, this isn't limited to Shooting; BUT severely limits how capable such units are. This is okay; but in reality, it affects 3 (4?) units in the game; Terminators (and Terminator Command Squads), Breachers, and Phalanx Warders.

 

Breachers are mediocre; this makes them more capable. They fulfil the job of what Tactical Squads used to; blob on an objective, and while T5 Hardened Armour with a 6++ and 5+ FNP is pretty decent; at 75pts more than a tactical squad, they're still susceptible to getting blown away by the current meta and what people are currently taking to kill MEQ's; Plasma, Magna Melta, Ordnance, etc. A Typhon is still going to "nope" them, possibly even more than usual as you can't string them out in a big line, instead having to testudo into a double line at least (which then gets cut in half, costing you movement). Hammer of Wrath is nesh, really, but a couple of kills in a game can't hurt at the very best. But; no Deep Strike, limited Elites AND Fast Attack, in addition to the higher premium and only slightly more resilient Breacher/Warder squads. Throw in a limitation of one consul, and soon, you realise that you can't actually compete with large force multiplying consuls aiding your praetor.

 

So, your tactics provide you with a fairly minor offensive benefit, and while some fairly large defensive buffs (+1T and Stubborn), the opportunity costs being so high (a further 200-350pt tax compared to normal (4 nr Breacher squads for between 0-4 Elite+Fast attack and an Aegis line). Considering that they cannot claim benefit of Shieldwall if they charge, this means that until it kicks in, they're purely defensive. I.e only a LoS blocker, and avoidable. 

 

As for kit; everyone loves their 2+/3++ saves, and while Salamanders got them first, Vigil Pattern Storm Shields do it better; namely, their available to normal Terms, not just Cataphractii for the 3++, so no SNP. Which means they can overwatch if they need to! And Run (but that cots them their shieldwall). Throw in that at 50pts for a Terminator with basic powersword and stormshield, you're looking at 250pts for that squad. The Power Gauntlet; A Power Fist that's not a Specialist Weapon with free Mastercrafting, for the cost of a Thunder Hammer. This is similar to Alpha Legion getting a Power Dagger for the same points ratio, except that Alpha Legion aren't limited to the Power Fist statline and aren't that fussed about the Master crafted bit.

 

Teleporting Terms; Teleport works well with shooty terms. So no Storm Shields, and no Shield Wall. Unlikely Barricades/Fortifications for you to fight from. You don't take shooty terminators to fire Bolters. Iliastus Assault Cannon; unlikely to Jam on you, but it's there. Heavy 4 S6 is ruined by AP4. Rend adds in a couple, but really? Better off with Plasma, considering it costs the same and given the nature of terms as a primarily terminator counter unit, Plasma is even more better. Unless you want to kill Rhinos all game.

 

Templar Brethren; WS5 Power SWORDS (only!) with Artificer Armour and Furious Charge. Throw on Combat Shields for a 5++ in combat, and they're a unit that can take on enemy non-Terminator Assault units; Night Raptors, Palatine Blades etc whose AP3 limitations are really quite hamstringing. Some unique niche options like a Solarite Gauntlet, and Archaeotech Pistol on the Champion makes it interesting, but expensive, and I'd rather stick with a Power Axe (only model with access to in the squad), Combat Shield, and throw a Forge Lord with Rad Grenade in for that magical Instant Death ratio to cut both FNP and enemy characters. Do you see any major bonuses apart from BS5 bolt pistols (pssh)? Maybe your assault takes you the way of the enemy fortifications which by chance gives you stubborn, but not really. And no, combat shields don't benefit from the Stone Gauntlet.

 

Phalanx Warders; Breachers, with a further unit tax in return for gaining i5 when charged. Sounds awesome until you realise that the only melee weapon options except the sergeant are Unwieldy (sergeant can get a Sword). Special Weapon option for 1 in 5 to get a Thunder Hammer though can turn the unit into an okayish walker hunter; meltabomb on the Sergeant and a pair of Thunder Hammers comes in at 300pts however. 5 Terminators with Chainfists and Combi-meltas comes in at 260pts. And Can Deep Strike for 275pts. Go figure.

 

Sigismund; Sevatar and Abaddon are about the only two characters who can hold a torch to him, but as both of those lack Eternal Warrior (and this guy doesn't) he wins out. For a brief breakdown; 5 S6 I6 AP2 Attacks on the charge, forcing rerolling of invulnerable saves and causing Instant Death in a challenge, rerolling failed charges and sweeping advances (I5 Sweeping advance with a reroll? Whoa). This guy is going to be gunning for the enemy warlord; and the best bodyguard for him are Templars IMHO (and thematic, too), and if he kills it (check to see if enemy warlord has Primarch. If not, it's dead; ID and force Invuln rerolls = very dead people, even those rare EW people like Sallies or Primus Cataphractii SoH). He then gets additional bonuses an such; because it's not enough to get Slay the Warlord and as well, you get +1 VP AND +1 CR score (which you can reroll Sweeps with, joy!).  WS7 is the cherry on top. And have I mentioned he's fearless? And has Adamantium Will? Yeah, he's kind of alright. Having said that - you guessed it; no actual bonuses from the Legion rules.

 

Polux; Eh. S10 AP2 isn't to be sneezed at, as is the ability to Deep Strike a unit (I use Dynat with similar rules, allowing him to Deep Strike an Infantry unit. Well, a Praevian is an infantry unit (unit type; infantry), and unlike IC's, it doesn't count as part of another unit, so per RAW, until it's changed to require it to be completely made up of infantry, you can deep strike Castellax.  The redeploy is brilliant. It's like the best part of Infiltrate (noone really cares about being able to deploy closer now that you can't first turn assault with it), and making it even better in that you can force an opponent to cater for that unit to be in a particular location, and then redeploy it somewhere where in a more suitable position. Hammer Blow is like super smash; because having 2 WS6 S10 AP2 attacks at initiative are no good whatsoever.
 

So, the final bit; Dorn. Although a Primarch, possible the weakest actual character (as much as a 4 Attack WS8 S6 AP2 Shred Rampage/or half his attacks for S8 AP2 Shred Instant Death attack routine can be). His shootig; naff. He has a short ranged Salvo 3/5  RendingHeavy Bolter. AP4 makes it comparatively worthless unless you're shooting at Solar Auxilia (and being fair, in that case, you maybe better shooting at them. Then again, his ID and rampage means that he likes to hunt Ogryns (kills 3-4 on the charge). He can be quite tanky; but really the 3+ to wound rule limitation doesn't really come in. Against other Primarchs he'll be killed or avoided. Against S8+ Weapons, he's immune to their ID anyway. Against D Weapons, he's dead. Against Walkers he's dead, because Sundering Blow is unlikely to actually do much (average 3 attacks, needing a 5+ to glance a Contemptor which has a 5++ against it? He's kinda poor, if I'm honest (but can handle himself decently in an assault against non Primarchs.

 

As to what he brings to a list; Phalanx Breachers and Terms becoming Troops. No real effect there. Phalanx Breachers are pretty poor, and Terminators can already become Troops. Only difference is that now that they're core options with Orbital Assault (but they can Deep Strike anyway), or get access to Stone Gauntlet without taking up part of the Elite/FA unit tax (but still aren't on the compulsory available lists). So, that's a bit nesh. What else? Can use his Ld for Morale/pinning. Eh, +1. Perty brings Stubborn. I know what I'd rather have. +D3 to assault result; so you can actually win combats now, but actually get no actual help outside of Sigismund and Templars; which should be winning combats anyway? What this means is that those units which have been charged get a net bonus of +2 to +4 to their Ld test, so instead of taking a test on -6, it's on ~-3 instead. It amuses me when people say how much of a buffer Dorn is; sure, but he's not really a good buffer.

 

His final benefit is his "Eagle of Zeus"/Aetos Dios Thunderhawk. This is another very poorly written rule, which doesn't state whether or not it goes against the Lords of War points limit; and may be represented by a Thunderhawk Gunship with IWND, Void Shield and Turbo Laser with a reduced cost and a missile invulnerable save. The trick is, it's not actually a proper Thunderhawk Gunship, which doesn't make mention of it being able to take other options; so no Cluster Bombs, or the upgrades to turn it into the 13/12/13 it could be at.

 

Still, like Perty, he allows 3 Lords of War potentially; just that Perty does it better.

 

As to what I believe are strongest;

 

Raven Guard and Alpha Legion top tier, with Sons of Horus and Night Lords, Stubborn Generic Marines shortly below, with the third tier made up of Salamanders, Death Guard, Word Bearers (although this is mainly due to the strength of Daemons, the Telepathy Discipline, Gal Vorbak, Mhara Gal and the Legion Relic, more than anything else) and Furious Charge generic marines. At this level, dependent on build, World Eaters and Emperor's Children can be here as can Iron Warriors if you abuse the capability of 3 Lords of War with a pair of D Weapons, but mostly these are Tier 4.

 

In general, dependent on build, a legion can shift up or down a tier or even 2, and in reality, the legions aren't that far different from one another; but those armies which can take advantage of the meta (mainly AL, RG, SoH and Night Lords due to their ability to move in close and really pile on pressure) are going to do better.

 

TL:DR; Meta's vary results, as does level of competitiveness of the local players, as well as their willingness to sink money into the game to play rockpaperscissors. 

 

Best; RG, AL

Second; SoH, NL, Stubborn

Third; Furious Charge, DG, WB, Sal

Fourth; WE, EC, IW, IH, IF

[Brofist]

I can't say I agree with many of your assessments, given my own experience, but I do appreciate the write up. Good to have different perspective. There's a lot you can do even with mediocre legion rules and your mileage will always vary depending on your meta, your list, and who you're going up against.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Eh, short story shorter; Iron Hands win at shooting, game became focussed around alpha strike, vehicles, and CC, Iron Hands lose out.

 

It's like where at the start of 7th edition 40K, Shooting was king; which lead to IH's early dominance in 30K meta. But as time went on, and people began to realise that combat was actually more important due to all of the shooty heavy armies sucking in CC, that fast movers/advanced deployment combat troops became regular investments; similar to how Flesh Hounds are now becoming moderately useful, especially now that they generate blood tithe points for Daemonkin. Kroot, Assault Marines, Wychcults, Hormagaunts, Daemonettes etc.

 

Same thing applies here. Iron Hands are best at shooting, look for alternative measure. Typhon just flat out NOPES Iron Hands bonuses, while Plasma is unaffected by the reduced Strength. As Iron hands get other benefits towards vehicles, like Blessed Autosimulacra/IWND, the encouragement is to take heavier AT; and important targets, like Terminator carrying Spartans need to get taken out before the end of turn 1, so IWND and BA have no chance to trigger.

 

In a competitive style of play, where you play legally, and pleasantly (as an opponent), it's not about having fun instead as you're meant to be wiping out the others units to progress. Sure, have fun while you do it, and don't by PitA while playing, but there's no sense in feeling sorry for someone getting upset that their favourite unit the Spartan carrying Vulkan and 10 Firedrakes they've just painted up isn't doing what they thought it could do because of my 6 Graviton Cannons, Deep Striking Tank Hunting Darkfire Castellax with BS5 and +1 to damage rolls from Dynat and the pair of Drop Podded Legion Dreads with a pair of Graviton Guns decided to show up and kill it first turn, leaving the remaining Terminators whose only ranged ability is Vulkan's Lantern, and a Heavy Flamer to footslog it in difficult and dangerous terrain.