stoesl Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Since "prospero burns" we know that there are no wolves on Fenris....we might assume that these "wolvish" creatures are in fact former members of the rout...then what or who are the two wolves that walk with russ as in "scars" ? The whole "no wolves" theme vexes and intrigues me at the same time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Super basic breakdown, as I understand it: Wolves did not evolve naturally on Fenris. Wolves were not brought over by colonists. The colonists engaged in genetic manipulation to adapt. This was successful, but not for everyone. Those who weren't, became something else. The colonist population stabilized. There are no wolves on Fenris. Theory time! It's my personal opinion that the canis helix, the genetic legacy of the Space Wolves distinct from their gene-seed, is a relic of this colonial gene-tech. The Fenrisian population is descended from those colonists, and so are a more stable recruitment pool. Others are not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4011895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Since "prospero burns" we know that there are no wolves on Fenris....we might assume that these "wolvish" creatures are in fact former members of the rout...then what or who are the two wolves that walk with russ as in "scars" ? The whole "no wolves" theme vexes and intrigues me at the same time They're wolves. I mean, the "no wolves on Fenris" is one of those things that could be true. It's cool and mythic, but... I wouldn't got for a literal truth, there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4012067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Psyker Wolves...doesnt Magnus talk to one in ATS? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4012078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combat_Vet Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 I always took it to mean "don't judge a book by it's cover". Fenris has what appears to be wolves. They are creatures that are faster, stronger, and more intelligent than wolves from Terra. The Vlka Fenryka show themselves to be feral/savage warriors. Simply "the Rout". Again, nothing could be further from the truth and in actuality it is Sun Tzu in action (appear as one thing when you are another). Rather than be all "metaphysical" it simply boils down to - there are no wolves on Fenris. At least that's my take on it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4012629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Thirst Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Oh boy, this topic again. My understanding of it was similar to Conn's explanation, Fenris is a Deathworld with extreems in climate, original colonists couldnt cope, fiddled with genes, side-effects. "Wolves" of Fenris are descended from original human colonists. That being said I cant wait to see how Forgeworld tackle the issue of the VIth legions gene-seed being largely incompatible with those without the Canis-Helix, was the gene-seed altered after Russ and Fenris was discovered? or has the gene-seed always been a problem for initial recruiting as all gene-stock is derived from its original Primarch? Does Russ even have the Canis-Helix or was it something that was incorporated later to allow for recruiting from Fenris? Only time will tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4013882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Speaking for myself, I'd be disappointed if the "No Wolves in Fenris" bit turns out to be yet another instance of something that just seemed like it had something to do with important within the setting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4013929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 It's one of my favourite Heresy related phrases - I love the potentiality of the phrase. As to whether it comes to anything, or influences anything, would be another matter. I like how it has us wondering, either way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4014722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeMrBadger Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 My guess has been we all know the Big E spliced DNA in from many sources to create the Primarchs. Not allof it was human and having canine, Bat, Lizard and all soprts of Xenos bits and pieces mixed in to the pot (taken from Deliverance lost). Russ may have had a load of Canine / Wolf DNA in his mix. As others have said, Fenris is a death world so during the great expansion circa m20 - m25 the colonists tweaked there DNA to be more resilient and handle the environment. Its referenced in other books that ab-humans exists, adapted / evolved to handle certain conditions. During the long knight Fenris population became isolated and degenerated into a Viking level of technology. Occasionally a freak mutation occurs in these Ab-humans and they trigger a mutation and become more wolf like. Russ's DNA as part of the Gene seed works well as the natives of Fenris have Canine / Wolf DNA markers in so bonds well and produces marines. sticking the geneseed into non Fenrisians, without the ab-human Canine / Wolf DNA triggers all sorts of random mutations and is unstable. Something along the lines of Fenrisians have Dodgy DNA, russ has Dodgy DNA, but together two wrongs make something sooooo right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4014769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Speaking for myself, I'd be disappointed if the "No Wolves in Fenris" bit turns out to be yet another instance of something that just seemed like it had something to do with important within the setting. I'd argue that it's not even supposed to come across as important given its single mention in the ATS-PB duology, and then nothing at all since. We've had several novels/novellas/short stories and a Space Wolf Codex since then, too. It's never come up since. I tend to find that stuff more indicative than one-off mentions. I like the possibility, myself, and I'm always up for mythic(al) origin stories for things on cool alien worlds, but I wouldn't look at something like that as an objective fact. Admittedly, I'd be fine if it was. I realise I'm in something of a unique position though, since I've seen both sides of the curtain on things first-hand where an author has put something into a novel back in a lighter-editing era, and it's then failed to be mentioned again for X, Y, or Z reason. And those reasons aren't necessarily bad, or because the factoid is wrong, though often that's indeed the case. There's a lot I can't say - just like there's a lot authors in any IP work can't say, and rightly so - but I can give the lie of the land on something like this in a general sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4015039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Thirst Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 There's a lot I can't say - Confirmed, A D-B is a lodge member... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4015279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoesl Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Picked this up in "Scars"....the magnus ghost states that there is something fundamentaly wrong with the wolves. That is why they put runes on everything near them -> without they would have nightmares ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4025788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Picked this up in "Scars"....the magnus ghost states that there is something fundamentaly wrong with the wolves. That is why they put runes on everything near them -> without they would have nightmares ? the petty, twisted words of a broken primarch on a dead planet. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4027290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Picked this up in "Scars"....the magnus ghost states that there is something fundamentaly wrong with the wolves. That is why they put runes on everything near them -> without they would have nightmares ? the petty, twisted words of a broken primarch on a dead planet. WLK Or they are just afraid the World Eaters will show up... In all seriousness, he is almost certainly referring to the wulfen curse, and (possible) belief that the runes can help prevent what is essentially a mutation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4027516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoesl Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Picked this up in "Scars"....the magnus ghost states that there is something fundamentaly wrong with the wolves. That is why they put runes on everything near them -> without they would have nightmares ? the petty, twisted words of a broken primarch on a dead planet. WLK I think magnus is a special case of a petty primarch...he seems to resent what he has become, what he has done and what has been done to him. So basically he might tell everyone the "ugly" truth to hurt them...or lie ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4027644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I think magnus is a special case of a petty primarch...he seems to resent what he has become, what he has done and what has been done to him.Errr...you mean he's exactly like Mortarion, Perturabo, Angron, and Curze? Also: Russ: "There are no wolves on Fenris. Following me around, you say? Hmmm...you must mean my two adorable little waggy tailed puppy dogs." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4027742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 There are no wolves on Fenris. Jonson waited to see who would win the heresy. The Ultramarines absorbed the missing Legions. Space Marines are functionally immortal. Sanguinius should have been warmaster. The Space Wolves are the most ruthless and brutal of all the Legions. The Alpha Legion are really totally working for humanity. I think we should call these things "heresy-isms" or something like that. Wonderous new truths that are revealed to us by the Horus Heresy series, which should be taken with a mine worth of salt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4028259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Abnett, Thorpe, A D-B, Abnett, McNeill, Abnett, Abnett. Methinks Legs isn't a DanFan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4028412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoesl Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 There are no wolves on Fenris. Jonson waited to see who would win the heresy. The Ultramarines absorbed the missing Legions. Space Marines are functionally immortal. Sanguinius should have been warmaster. The Space Wolves are the most ruthless and brutal of all the Legions. The Alpha Legion are really totally working for humanity. I think we should call these things "heresy-isms" or something like that. Wonderous new truths that are revealed to us by the Horus Heresy series, which should be taken with a mine worth of salt. I kinda like this idea :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4028861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Thirst Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 There are no wolves on Fenris. Jonson waited to see who would win the heresy. The Ultramarines absorbed the missing Legions. Space Marines are functionally immortal. Sanguinius should have been warmaster. The Space Wolves are the most ruthless and brutal of all the Legions. The Alpha Legion are really totally working for humanity. I think we should call these things "heresy-isms" or something like that. Wonderous new truths that are revealed to us by the Horus Heresy series, which should be taken with a mine worth of salt. Your wrong Legatus .... Sanguinius should have been Warmaster :P [Obvious sarcasm is Obvious, Horus was the Brightest and 'First Among Equals'] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4029173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 There are no wolves on Fenris. Jonson waited to see who would win the heresy. The Ultramarines absorbed the missing Legions. Space Marines are functionally immortal. Sanguinius should have been warmaster. The Space Wolves are the most ruthless and brutal of all the Legions. The Alpha Legion are really totally working for humanity. I think we should call these things "heresy-isms" or something like that. Wonderous new truths that are revealed to us by the Horus Heresy series, which should be taken with a mine worth of salt. Abnett, Thorpe, A D-B, Abnett, McNeill, Abnett, Abnett. Methinks Legs isn't a DanFan. All of those really aren't equal. Some are literally one character, unreliable or otherwise, in a scene where even other characters don't agree with him. You can't help it if people choose to believe an unreliable character like, say, Astelan. If people take a possibility as The Only Truth, then that's their call. Others are the author literally saying it in-person, or a book's worth of characters taking it as truth. I mean, guys, there are tiers of this stuff. Shades of grey and all that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4034758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 That's what the salt is for, after all. While you are right that the phrasing of the Space Wolves point was more how Dan had said it personally in the promotional video clip for the book, there is a character in the book describing how some of the Space Marines are horrifying monsters, and that the Space Wolves are the worst of them all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4034902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think we should call these things "heresy-isms" or something like that. Wonderous new truths that are revealed to us by the Horus Heresy series, which should be taken with a mine worth of salt. Horus Hearsay? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4034942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 You win! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4034977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 There are no writers in Black Library (other than the Trinity) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306286-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-4035027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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