How the flying hell are we gonna handle Wratihknights now?!

[Raktra]

They thing's only gone up 55pts but is now a jump gargantuan creature, and it can be I5 S:D in combat. Alright, I know we have access to a good number of superheavy options, but we can't take 12 in a standard list. Even the top melee Primarchs are gonna struggle here.

[Flint13]

The top melee Primarchs would come nowhere near to struggling with this thing.

 

Horus and Angron both would tear a huge chunk out of it before it gets to strike.

 

What about being a gargantuan creature causes such a huge paradigm shift in combatting it really?

 

**Edit**

 

Just checked to make sure, but all of the Primarchs have Eternal Warrior and an invulnerable save. I'm not seeing how this thing hitting Horus, Angron, Vulkan, Mortarion...with a couple of STr D attacks in hand to hand is going to cause many problems.

[Slips]

Theres a reason FW Teased the Warlord Titan.

 

Nothing says "DIE XENOS SCUM!" Like the overkill known as a Warlord Titan firing all 4 of its D weapons into a single model 1/10^th its cost/durability/awesomeness/everything

 

For a more economic solution: Shoot at it with Flyers. Cant kill what it cant touch. 

 

Edit:

 

The top Primarchs would come nowhere near to struggling with this thing.

Horus and Angron both would tear it a new one 4/5 times out of five before it even gets to strike.

What about being a gargantuan creature causes such a huge paradigm shift in combatting it really?

 

Mostly because it can now Stomp D3 Times in addition to its normal CC attacks (is that how it works?) all of which may also be D hits on a to-hit of 6.

Poison/Fleshbane/Sniper and equivalents now only wound on a 6+ 

Has: EW, HoW (D3), Move Through Cover, Smash (at Ap1), + a few others 

Immune to Psychic Powers that don't have an S Value 

Can shoot (all its weapons, no penalties) at one thing and charge another

 

And a few other things. Its also a Jump Gargantuan Creature to be more precise.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Macro Cannon Aquila Strongpoints. Fires 2 D Shots a turn.

[Raktra]

Taking a chunk out and then having a hefty chance of instantly poofing into nothingness doesn't bode well in my eyes. Its built-in Feel No Pain's a big kicker as well.

[Flint13]

That still isn't that bad, it isn't hitting a primarch with more than a few attacks per turn, especially if it only gets d3 stomps which *may* be STr D on a roll of six.

 

Every single Primarch has an invuln and Eternal Warrior. A few might have trouble wounding its T8, but it's not going to wipe out any of them in a single round.

 

Horus and Angron would take one apart. I'm betting that Mortarion and Vulkan would wreck one quite well too.

[Raktra]

A stomp on a 6 isn't S:D, it's remove the model from the game.

Macro cannons are a canny idea.

[Slips]

A stomp on a 6 isn't S:D, it's remove the model from the game.

 

Macro cannons are a canny idea.

...Yeah I remember that little BS tidbit now.

 

Guess my brain auto-'Housed' it to the slightly more potable S:D on a 6 rather than *poof you're gone*

[Hesh Kadesh]

[XYZ] might be tough and have insane willpower, but if several kiloton of Orkish scrap metal or Eldar Wraithbone stepped on him there wouldn't be much left. With Strength:D there's the idea that the blast might not have caught them full in the blast, but with being fully stepped on, as opposed to just losing his leg, Stomp makes more sense that way; similar to how Vortex remove from play, ignorant of whatever special rules are there (note that you do D6 wounds, sadly, to Gargantuans).

[Raktra]

It makes sense, it's just scary as hell. Bloody thing, I hate Wraithknights.

[Slips]

[XYZ] might be tough and have insane willpower, but if several kiloton of Orkish scrap metal or Eldar Wraithbone stepped on him there wouldn't be much left. With Strength:D there's the idea that the blast might not have caught them full in the blast, but with being fully stepped on, as opposed to just losing his leg, Stomp makes more sense that way; similar to how Vortex remove from play, ignorant of whatever special rules are there (note that you do D6 wounds, sadly, to Gargantuans).

But, if we went with the fluff, Angron would survive to deadlift it right off him

Only time Stomp is wonky is when you get to place additional stomps up to 3" away from the First/Previous one meaning if you get 3, you can have a 9" long line of stomps leading away.

Without having to move the model.

...

Yeah.

They should've limited it to units in B2B contact.

[shandwen]

I honestly think Corax would even own this guy (Probably two turns, with only taking hits one).

[Hesh Kadesh]

My favourite event was when I managed to get a Greater Brass Scorpion in a First turn assault, (12" Move and 3d6" Assault), and I got 6 stomps, each rolling 3 stomps, and rolling at least a single 6 on each turn for damage; which managed to get Draigo, Calgar and Grimnar all in one (playing a 6K apoc game). My opponent just stared as his Paladin squad and his 3 major characters just got swept off the table.

[depthcharge12]

My favourite event was when I managed to get a Greater Brass Scorpion in a First turn assault, (12" Move and 3d6" Assault), and I got 6 stomps, each rolling 3 stomps, and rolling at least a single 6 on each turn for damage; which managed to get Draigo, Calgar and Grimnar all in one (playing a 6K apoc game). My opponent just stared as his Paladin squad and his 3 major characters just got swept off the table.

Lol I cNt imagine it stomping, more of a scuttle :P

 

Even Primarchs can't handle the D. It's an instant remove from play on a 6 that disregards invulns and EW.

 

Maybe a Glaive might do the trick? D3 additional hits on top of the S8 AP2 with deflagrate not to mention the 4 lascannon shots.

 

Edit: I guess flesh bane doesn't help, which is a bit silly.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Excellent shout on the Glaive.

 

The alternative to the macro cannon is the Primus Redoubt with it's Two TL'd D shots. This is one time in which Rad Phage may help, although only one Poisoned 3+ wound isn't brilliant. Destroyers... they wouldn't really help, they'd just get minced.

[depthcharge12]

Ooh, I forgot another idea.

 

If you can take allies, get some knights - especially the knight lancer. That thing can hit first with a D strength weapon, gets a ++ in cc, and lowers the enemy gargantuan creature's weapon skill by one as well. Plus, the 6 S7 AP2 concussive shots are nothing to sniff at :)

 

As long as you're not up against a 1500 point list containing a wraithknight you should be golden, besides, you're playing 2000 points minimum.

[lobbywatson]

It's my understanding that it doesn't have S:D attacks unless it takes the sword which replaces its two shooting D weapons.

I could be wrong but the leaks show it's either one or the other.

[Slips]

It's my understanding that it doesn't have S:D attacks unless it takes the sword which replaces its two shooting D weapons.

I could be wrong but the leaks show it's either one or the other.

All The Wraithknight Weapons, as far as we know (I'll confirm when I get the codex myself next week) have S:D

Fun thing to note: Wraithguard get a -1 to rolls on the D chart meaning they cant roll the result of 6 and fail to do anything on a 1-2. So while they are "cheap" D Slappers, they are quite neutered (though D3+1 is nothing to scoff at).

It just seems odd to me that of all the proposed solutions so far, none are really on-par with the 295 cost (its weapon swaps are free) of the Wraithknight Damnit GW.

[ThatOneMarshal]

My easiest solution is don't play the guy. Keep

In mind a couple things if he's going with the formation he's taking some wraith guard who have ranged D weapons. If the player wants with dark eldar allies he can deep strike them with no scatter. Think about that for a second no scatter d weapons. Now you maybe thinking okay I'll take lots of infantry to deal with them. Don't worry eldar got you covered. If their inclined they can take 120 scatters laser shots at you on jet bikes all for 1020 points. Now thankfully we aren't affected as regular marines because they kill statistically 30 marines. This is why I left for the horus heresy. I don't like this kind of crap and the horus heresy don't give me that crap.

[Brofist]

The ranged D weapons are direct fire. Sniper veterans with heavy bolters stand a chance. At most you loose 2 guys from the knight and they put out about 4 wounds onto it. If you charge in after that you might even kill it, but it'll hurt your squad in the melee. They also cost about as many points and have to get there somehow.

 

If you're worried about deep strikers you should by using augry scanners or allying in admech, which will help with the deep strike shenanigans. It's rough though. Gargantuan creatures or walkers are things that legion armies have a tough time against.

[redmapa]

How about predators with executioner cannons? They are kind of cheap and 3 blasts each could pose a good threat (maybe?)..

[Slips]

The ranged D weapons are direct fire. Sniper veterans with heavy bolters stand a chance. At most you loose 2 guys from the knight and they put out about 4 wounds onto it. If you charge in after that you might even kill it, but it'll hurt your squad in the melee. They also cost about as many points and have to get there somehow.

 

If you're worried about deep strikers you should by using augry scanners or allying in admech, which will help with the deep strike shenanigans. It's rough though. Gargantuan creatures or walkers are things that legion armies have a tough time against.

Thing is, since its gargantuan, things like sniper, fleshbane and poison only wound it on a 6+ unless it has better coming from elsewhere; meaning destroyers with fleshbane rad missiles wouldnt be worthwhile vs a WK and neither would sniper vets since their main rules (sniper and fleshbane) flat out dont work. Its part of the Gargantuan Resistances block in the BRB.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Unstoppable only mentions Sniper and Poisoned, not Fleshbane. Has no bearing on Phosphex which is poisoned of course.

 

If you wanted to risk it, a BA character could charge it with the Photonic Blade.

[Flint13]

My easiest solution is don't play the guy. Keep

In mind a couple things if he's going with the formation he's taking some wraith guard who have ranged D weapons. If the player wants with dark eldar allies he can deep strike them with no scatter. Think about that for a second no scatter d weapons. Now you maybe thinking okay I'll take lots of infantry to deal with them. Don't worry eldar got you covered. If their inclined they can take 120 scatters laser shots at you on jet bikes all for 1020 points. Now thankfully we aren't affected as regular marines because they kill statistically 30 marines. This is why I left for the horus heresy. I don't like this kind of crap and the horus heresy don't give me that crap.

 

Well, at worst they will only have one since its a lord of war. Best not to look at things like this in a vacuum. Sure the Nastier Primarchs and Cerastus lancer outweighs it points-wise, but Primarchs are big force multipliers and the lancer still has plenty of usefulness once it's downed the Wraithknight.

 

I suppose you could argue someone could take as many LoWs as they want if they abuse the wacky detachment systems, but then we're out of the realm of actual tactics and back to general game etiquette and sorting out the type of game and player you would actually enjoy playing.

 

Unstoppable only mentions Sniper and Poisoned, not Fleshbane. Has no bearing on Phosphex which is poisoned of course.

 

If you wanted to risk it, a BA character could charge it with the Photonic Blade.

I can't explain how much I want to see a BA character light saber this things face off. Might not be the best way to go about it though, unless the Wraithknight is down a few wounds first ^_^

[Raktra]

There's a formation where they can take up to 12, so if someone's being a real jerk... D: