How the flying hell are we gonna handle Wratihknights now?!

[Hesh Kadesh]

Depends what stats a Wraithknight gets. If there's anything like +1 I on the charge like 40K gets for them, then a BA Character can charge in with 7 WS6 I6 attacks, or take a ML 2 Biomancy Librarian with it and hope for Warp Speed; 8 Initiative 8 with Fleshbane in that case. Of course, that relies on the Librarian rolling a 4 on his 2 power selection dice. Multiple Strength D shots are hard to get hold of without multiple detachments for LoW in 30k.

[Flint13]

^^ That relies on a little too many instances of dice needing to fall a certain way for me.

 

I'd prefer to plink a few wounds off with lascannons and hit it with Angron. Much more of a sure thing that way :d

[Memento Of Prospero]

Sicarans with lascannon sponsons should be able to handle it.

[Spinsanity]

Immune to Psychic Powers that don't have an S Value 

 

Just to clarify, does that include Invisibility?

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

Immune to Psychic Powers that don't have an S Value 

Just to clarify, does that include Invisibility?

 

 

as far as I can tell, they cannot be targeted by any spychic power without a S value, not just enemy.

[sedobren]

You could alway play the questoris knight crusade list with allied mechanicum...beat the bgg guys with bigger guys

[Memento Of Prospero]

I mean, the asnwer to any problem is always some form of Imperial Knight ;)

[sedobren]

The machine-god protect us!

[sedobren]

Or for about the same price you could play about 8 rapiers with tudd gun and enjoy the sight of a wraithknight killed by the demi-god of statistics.

[Brofist]

I ran the numbers this morning and it doesn't look good. Considering BS5 on our side and a 3+5++ on the side of the WK:

• 9 thudd guns, or x37 S8 AP5 shots
• 16 lascanons, or x16 S9 AP2 shots
• 14 rapid firing plasma guns, or x27 S7 AP2 shots
• 19 autocannons, or x38 S7 AP4 shots
• 4 sicaran tanks, or x28 S7 AP4 shots with rend
• 4.5 kheres mortis dreads, or x56 S6 AP5 shots with rending

That's not factoring in the FNP save the WK gets. About the only tricks we can use to make the numbers better is to ally in a Magos Malagra for monster hunter or to wound it with a rad missile. For the cost, melee is probably a better option. A lancer might work, but it could get popped on the way in and costs more.

[Slips]

Then, in that case, theres no thing like Overkill.

 

Bring out the Dslapping Titans.

 

Also, reading the BRB pg 71. The Gargantuan Resistances box only specifically mentions Sniper USR and Poisoned USR; meaning that RAW, Fleshbane still wounds on a 2+ (my other post was going off of older info that I didn't bother crosschecking since it was late and I'm lazy).

 

That means that Destroyers / Primaris-Lightnings equipped with Rad Missile Launchers (the Primaris can have 3, iirc) are probably our best bet. They're AP3 to boot but its still getting its 5++ & FNP.

 

However, in the case of the Lightning, if you can keep it safe from any of their Anti-Air, its probably the best placed for dealing with the WK.

[Moonstalker]

http://i.imgur.com/dYEcAp8.jpg

[depthcharge12]

Then, in that case, theres no thing like Overkill.

 

Bring out the Dslapping Titans.

 

Also, reading the BRB pg 71. The Gargantuan Resistances box only specifically mentions Sniper USR and Poisoned USR; meaning that RAW, Fleshbane still wounds on a 2+ (my other post was going off of older info that I didn't bother crosschecking since it was late and I'm lazy).

 

That means that Destroyers / Primaris-Lightnings equipped with Rad Missile Launchers (the Primaris can have 3, iirc) are probably our best bet. They're AP3 to boot but its still getting its 5++ & FNP.

 

However, in the case of the Lightning, if you can keep it safe from any of their Anti-Air, its probably the best placed for dealing with the WK.

Well in that case, BANE SOME FLESH!!!

 

Gonna have to give a shout out to all my Mechanicus brothas in the barrio. Three Myrmidons with irrad engines should crap the the Eldar's cereal so to speak.

[Flint13]

I ran the numbers this morning and it doesn't look good. Considering BS5 on our side and a 3+5++ on the side of the WK:

• 9 thudd guns, or x37 S8 AP5 shots
• 16 lascanons, or x16 S9 AP2 shots
• 14 rapid firing plasma guns, or x27 S7 AP2 shots
• 19 autocannons, or x38 S7 AP4 shots
• 4 sicaran tanks, or x28 S7 AP4 shots with rend
• 4.5 kheres mortis dreads, or x56 S6 AP5 shots with rending

That's not factoring in the FNP save the WK gets. About the only tricks we can use to make the numbers better is to ally in a Magos Malagra for monster hunter or to wound it with a rad missile. For the cost, melee is probably a better option. A lancer might work, but it could get popped on the way in and costs more.

 

 

Questions, two of them.

 

I thought quad mortars were Str 5 Ap5 in blast mode, Str 8 AP3 + sunder in anti-armor mode? 

 

A Cerastus-Lancer would be overkill, but would be hilariously fun. How do Str D attacks work against Gargantuan creatures? I'm assuming its not D3+3 wounds or whatever craziness that infantry suffer. 

[redmapa]

Quad Mortars are actually S8 AP4

[Moonstalker]

I suppose my post wasn't as constructive as it could've been.  But it was funny. >.>

 

Flint: Shatter Shells are AP4, not AP3.

 

Bulbafist: I'd be interested to see how simple krak missiles stack up against autocannons in your comparison.  Either is cheaply available on heavy support squads.  The extra point of strength and AP3 should more than make up for the loss of the second shot.

 

 

Overall, I think the actual solution in practice will depend largely on the armament of the WK.  A WK with the sword/shield is both tougher than one with dual wraithcannons and will be more eager to close distance and get into melee, giving you fewer shooting opportunities... but also potentially making it easier to get a bunch of powerfist-armed terminators into base to base with it.

[Flint13]

^^ Cool, thanks!

 

Terminators would get booted over pretty quickly wouldn't they? Even then, they only get a 4+ to hit and wound, then the Wraithknight's FnP and Invuln. I don't think the numbers work out very well there.

[Moonstalker]

I don't think any of the numbers work out terribly well.  The Wraithknight is massively undercosted, getting anything resembling an equal trade will be incredibly difficult.  However, terminators with combiplasmas and powerfists might actually manage to take a decent chunk out of the melee variant.  They're absolutely the wrong thing to bring against the double wraithcannon variant, as catching it to get it into melee will be near impossible - the Spartan they would normally ride in is so much smoking wreckage vs two Destroyer shots.  Given the middling WS and A of the WK, equal points of terminators might manage to tie the WK up for a couple turns while they take a couple wounds off of it.  Just hope the Eldar player rolls crummy on the stomp table.

[Slips]

Oh, and remember, the Sicarian's Neural Grenades (the skitarii dudes) always wound on a 4+, even Gargantuan Creatures and the whole squad is equipped with them; so up to 10.

 

I feel like the means to counter them would be dependent on loadout:

 

Sword & Board: Either outdo it in CC where it wants to be (meaning A knight or equivalent or better) or Kite it around (near impossible to do due to 12" move. As if Gargantuan Wasn't bad enough, hes a Jump Gargantuan. Coupled with 3D6 Charge...yeah)

 

Gun & Shield : Force Saves. 3+/5++ that wants to stay back and shoot ( its currently Heavy 3, dont think that'll change) Also target saturation since it can only fire this gun at a single target (will probably have 2 shoulder mounts that it can shoot at other stuff anyways).

 

Double Cannons: Get into CC with it ASAP. its going to hit hard, yeah, but not S:D Sword Hard meaning you might not lose as much.

 

Granted, the way the Destroyer rules are written, if a single model in a unit gets hit by a 6 (D6+6) those wounds don't spill over to the rest of the unit. Meaning large, tarpit blobs might be a good idea. Though Stomp makes it less of a viable prospect...

 

Looks like a job for the Glaive...which costs 3x as much -_-

[Raktra]

Well, only about twice as much now, with the point boost. But yeah, I dunno what GW were thinking. The other codex changes I've seen have been reasonable, too!

If we could just hurry up and get Sanguinius on our end, cheers.

[Moonstalker]

Considering the suncannon lacks Destroyer and hasn't had any rumors pointing towards large buffs for it, I think we can assume that that will be the least-chosen option for the WK.  Since it's now a gargantuan creature and can split its fire, I think the shoulder weapons become a no-brainer.  Might see the melee version rocking scatter lasers/shuriken cannons so that it can thin out a horde and help reduce tarpitting.  Twin cannon WK probably brings starcannons to defend itself from things like terminators that look like they might vaguely threaten to reach melee range, where it is comparatively 'weakest.'  Any of the three weapon options are probably fine.  They seem expensive on the face of it, but you can just about always count on them to have something shoot at.  They'll make their points back in a turn or two, and dropping a Wraithknight any faster than that is going to be a real task.

[Brofist]

The one upside of the twin D weapon version, as I understand it, is that it looses the 5++. However, since GMC have 5+ FNPs shooting at it is effectively the same as what I already posted.

 

BS5 Missile launchers are a bit worse than autocannons, but not by much. 22 shots and you'll take one down. So if you had a squad of 10 missile launchers that lost 2 men every turn, and you went first, you could expect to kill it by the end of the 3rd turn. If you found a way to give them preferred enemy it only takes 15 shots. If you added in a Malagra Magos you might even manage it in 10 shots. That's probably the key to outshooting a WK- monster hunter, S8 AP3, and preferred enemy ontop. You don't have to worry much about loosing infantry to a WK since it can only really kill 2 models a turn. It can, however, vaporize 2 tanks every turn instead.

 

Melee Instant death weapons are probably the best bang-for-the-buck since they cause D3 wounds to GMCs and ignore the FNP. A Malagra Magos Prime with Paragon Blades and combat augment array is probably the only near guaranteed way to take one down in the ballpark of 300 points. A Praetor on a bike with a similar setup might work ok, but both of them need bodyguards.

 

The main problem with melee is that a WK has I5. If it has ranged D weapons, then you'll have no problem in melee anyway (no 5++, only thing to worry about are stomps). But if you're facing down the melee version it'll be swinging an I5 D weapon which will kill something before you do any damage.

 

So there you have it. You can outshoot a Shooty WK if you're mostly packing infantry and it'll get taken down 'fairly' easily in melee. As for the Choppy WK, it's going to be a lot harder to take down in either shooting or melee. Thankfully you'll have at least 1 turn before it hits your lines. Maybe 2.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Can it not be melta bombed?

[Raktra]

That's less effective than power fist/thunder hammering though :/

[Memento Of Prospero]

It really isn't when it's 20 breachers with the same survivability as terminators. You get 20 melta bomb attacks and have twice the amount of bodies with 5+ invulnerable saves.