How the flying hell are we gonna handle Wratihknights now?!

[Galron]

Just a quick note, someone on Dakka did the math, 18 cyclone shots kills a WK. That's 9 Tyrant Terminators. Bring a full squad for insurance. Better yet, bring two, its an easy conversion and I think they are one of the best utility units in the entire crusade army list.

 

I have read a fairly neutral review of the codex. It looks bad when you read the extreme situations of it, but looking at the book as a whole, I am really not that worried. You will only see one Wraithhost in 2k points as it costs over 1k at its base. Then you add in the mandatory 600+ point bare bone host in order to bring the wraithhost. And that is with no transports. Jet bikes are marines with an invul save. They will fall to the same things marines fall to, they are just more maneuverable and if they jink, well that's a round they wont be doing much shooting.

 

I think the real concern in the new book is the aspect army. Wow. Thankfully we have ceramite armor on almost everything or firedragons would be really frikkin nasty with their BS5 and +1 on damage chart rolls. But both of our armies are small forces so losing a unit is a big deal. Once the jet bike craze ends and people start looking more fully into the codex, I fully expect to see serpents start re-appearing loaded up with aspect warriors. I think DAVU is going to make a comeback except I think they will actually be bringing them for the Avengers with their BS5 shuri cats.

 

I don't think we have a lot to worry about with the new codex. I think it looks pretty balanced at this point with the cost of everything. The Wraithknight is only slightly tougher than it was before, and if you have a friend who rolls nothing but 5s and 6s on saves nonstop(but cant hit the broadside of a barn  with a shotgun at ten yards) the toughness is markedly tougher, but against a non freak of nature the results should be negligible since you wont be seeing 3 or 4 of them like we do now for the most part. I am still going to bulk my Tyrant squad up to ten, but I was going to do that anyway to finish off my small 3k army of IW. Is it sad I think of a 3k army as a small army? I think if you had the ability to drop a WK or multiple WKs in the last codex, you should have no issues doing so in the new codex, unless you relied upon poison, in which case you are screwed and might have to change your list. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

18 shots =  12 hits = 6 wounds, 2 saved via FNP = 4 wounds.

 

Do wraithknights have 4 wounds. Yeah, ignore Dakka.

[Slips]

18 shots =  12 hits = 6 wounds, 2 saved via FNP = 4 wounds.

 

Do wraithknights have 4 wounds. Yeah, ignore Dakka.

Which means that its still dead in 2 turns because it has 6 wounds. Can you survive 4 S:D Shots which are *effectively* 48" (36" on HWC + 12" Move)? If yes, that thing is as good as dead.

 

If not, well its down to 2 Wounds. Send in the power fists or other chaff that can hurt T8

[Flint13]

 

18 shots =  12 hits = 6 wounds, 2 saved via FNP = 4 wounds.

 

Do wraithknights have 4 wounds. Yeah, ignore Dakka.

Which means that its still dead in 2 turns because it has 6 wounds. Can you survive 4 S:D Shots which are *effectively* 48" (36" on HWC + 12" Move)? If yes, that thing is as good as dead.

 

If not, well its down to 2 Wounds. Send in the power fists or other chaff that can hurt T8

 

 

OH! Its only six wounds? I legit thought it was T8 with 8 wounds.

 

Yeah, I can totally kill six wounds worth of that thing with my World Eaters. Six wounds isn't nearly as bad. 

[Slips]

As far as I know, its still/is now 6 Wounds. That could have never been true/ changed so feel free to correct me.

[Raktra]

Yeah it's still got 6 of 'em.

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

18 shots =  12 hits = 6 wounds, 2 saved via FNP = 4 wounds.

 

Do wraithknights have 4 wounds. Yeah, ignore Dakka.

Which means that its still dead in 2 turns because it has 6 wounds. Can you survive 4 S:D Shots which are *effectively* 48" (36" on HWC + 12" Move)? If yes, that thing is as good as dead.

 

If not, well its down to 2 Wounds. Send in the power fists or other chaff that can hurt T8

 

Those 4 Strength D shots are much more dangerous, however. Sure, that Wraithknight's going to go down quite quickly, but that Wraithknight is going to be hitting the important models; heavy fortifications, heavy vehicles, SH's in that time. It also ties up the shooting of the Tyrants for 2 turns.

 

And don't forget my mantra as well for Spartans, namely "take two"? It applies to Wraithknights too. While you can double up on Tyrants, and Tyrants aren't bad at all, and not exactly a waste, especially with Pride of the Legion, it's still taking 1100pts out of the legion army, leaving 600pts of things like Warp Spiders or LoS Blocking Wave Serpents (despite the nerf) carrying Wraithguard.

 

Killing the Wraithknight is *easy*. It's not broken that way; it's broken through the ease of which it can be taken into lists.

[depthcharge12]

Isn't it a LoW though? I thought you couldn't take more than one except for apoc.

 

Unless there is a formation to allow multiple wraithknights in a 2000 point is there?

 

If there is, then I call shenanigans/Eldar trickery.

[Raktra]

Yep, there's a couple of formations where you can have them.

[depthcharge12]

Yep, there's a couple of formations where you can have them.

Well, in that case, it may be time to get a Warlord Titan to remind those pointy eared freaks who's the big kahuna in the galaxy.

 

 

...another funny thing to consider, what about the D strength demo bots that the Solar Aux have? I'm sure they'd be shot to pieces on the way in unless you hide them behind an iron curtain of Dracosans. It'd be hilarious to kill a big wraithknight with one of those little buggers.

[Nusquam]

Namely the "Wraith Construct"; It's 1-12 of any wraith unit, Hemlock fighters/Knights/Guard. So it's easy to take 2 WKs.

 

Also they only have a 3+ armor save so those radrockets being AP3 matters. It's just the delivery options that are rough. Eldar get flakk for free with any EML, plus scatter spam can down flyers in a pinch, not to mention how good Reapers are at AA. Deepstriking destroyers could do well to get off a round of rockets backed up by some ranged fire in the rest of your list. Other than that its volume of fire for marines. Or a glaive ha.

 

Myrmidons with Irridiation engines popping out of a storm eagle would work too. They could also remove fistfulls of jetbikes... Then perhaps a unit with graviton imploders for the Knight? That's hefty amount of points but they're also great at killing marines too. If they were backed up by a few mortar batteries for the bikes then they could focus on knights.

 

Void shields hiding a typhon/macro would be viable if it weren't for the scatterbikes ability to pop numerous shields with ease. If you kept a typhon in reserves for a massive turn 2 strike I think it could work. But again, the potential scatterbike spam from a windrider host is wiping swathes of marines off immediately.

 

A flanking Acheron would do wonders for the jetbike problems. Radphage plus Lancers concussive shooting could help too.

 

There's no real hard counter, but various tactics and synergy between units that could be effective.

[Brofist]

Yeah, WKs are probably the first time outside of Adamantine Lance where I'll need to have a conversation before the game. Thankfully I have reasonable group of friends, but for you folks doing pick-up games or going to competitive events... good luck

[Hesh Kadesh]

MultipleCXAD is a thing. Or going unbound. Or the formation of course.

[depthcharge12]

Best tactic for this situation:

 

 

"Get me my dreadsock."

[ThatOneMarshal]

Isn't it a LoW though? I thought you couldn't take more than one except for apoc.

 

Unless there is a formation to allow multiple wraithknights in a 2000 point is there?

 

If there is, then I call shenanigans/Eldar trickery.

 

There's a formation that allows 12 of them.

[Slips]

 

Isn't it a LoW though? I thought you couldn't take more than one except for apoc.

 

Unless there is a formation to allow multiple wraithknights in a 2000 point is there?

 

If there is, then I call shenanigans/Eldar trickery.

 

There's a formation that allows 12 of them.

 

Not 12 in a single formation per se.

 

For every 'Core' Formation you take, you can have 1 to 12 'Auxiliary' Formations in addition to the Core.

 

One of these Formations is "Wraith Constructs" Which is a 1-1 Selection of: Hemlock Wraithfighter, Wraithlord or Wraithknight per formation.

 

I'll upload pictures that I took out of my copy of the Codex when I get home tonight if needed.

[Hesh Kadesh]

That is not a Formation.

[Slips]

That is not a Formation.

Well, there are two ways to take a Wraithknight within the confines of the Eldar Decurion Style Formation.

 

One as outlined above, the other is the Wraith Host (is that the name?) which consists of:

1 Spiritseer

3 units of Wraithguard or Wraithblades (in any combination)

1 Wraithlord

1 Wraithknight

 

And even though the previous is a Selection that is a 0-1 of either a WL, WK or HWF, its technically still a formation since its only available within the confines of the Eldar Decurion (it doesnt have its own 'Formation' Page at the back of the Book)

 

Other than that, theres stuffing a WK into a LoW Slot using the Standard FoC's which include such a slot.

 

Edit: minor corrections.

[jeremy1391]

Dorn would actually do pretty decent against a wraithknight.

 

Using his ID mode he should be doing 2D3 wounds to the wraithknight in one turn.

[Slips]

Dorn would actually do pretty decent against a wraithknight.

 

Using his ID mode he should be doing 2D3 wounds to the wraithknight in one turn.

And if they dont have the sword (it wont) he cant be hurt by its S10 Punches since 2+ to wound doesnt do jack to him thanks to his armor >:-D

[Lysere]

 

Dorn would actually do pretty decent against a wraithknight.

 

Using his ID mode he should be doing 2D3 wounds to the wraithknight in one turn.

And if they dont have the sword (it wont) he cant be hurt by its S10 Punches since 2+ to wound doesnt do jack to him thanks to his armor >:-D

 

 

It can still wound him, just need 3's instead of 2's.

[Slips]

 

 

Dorn would actually do pretty decent against a wraithknight.

 

Using his ID mode he should be doing 2D3 wounds to the wraithknight in one turn.

And if they dont have the sword (it wont) he cant be hurt by its S10 Punches since 2+ to wound doesnt do jack to him thanks to his armor >:-D

 

 

It can still wound him, just need 3's instead of 2's.

 

I'm still a bit iffy on the wording for it. Its "[...]On better than a 3+[...]"

 

So it could be: if you're rolling 2s (ie: wounding him on a 2,3,4,5,6) to wound they just get flat out negated. vs wounding on a 3+ (3,4,5,6) which would not get negated.

or

You're wounding Dorn on a 4+, negate any 2s.

 

I'd play it the Former way since it makes the most sense to me :P Unless I'm missing the obvious.

[Galron]

I found this weekend, Night Lord assault squads(not raptors) with a powerfist do great against them. Yeah my squad had the sergeant left when it was over, but my squad won. It was also badly wounded to start but then the squad was only like 6 guys when we charged in.

Lightnings with kraken missiles do excellent too. I inflicted four wounds in one volley.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I found this weekend, Night Lord assault squads(not raptors) with a powerfist do great against them. Yeah my squad had the sergeant left when it was over, but my squad won. It was also badly wounded to start but then the squad was only like 6 guys when we charged in.

Lightnings with kraken missiles do excellent too. I inflicted four wounds in one volley.

 

Night Lords only get the bonus against infantry as per their Legion Rules. 

 

If you meant krack grenades: max squad should get 9.5 hits and 1.6 wounds. which should be saved by the 3+

[Lysere]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dorn would actually do pretty decent against a wraithknight.

 

Using his ID mode he should be doing 2D3 wounds to the wraithknight in one turn.

And if they dont have the sword (it wont) he cant be hurt by its S10 Punches since 2+ to wound doesnt do jack to him thanks to his armor >:-D

It can still wound him, just need 3's instead of 2's.

I'm still a bit iffy on the wording for it. Its "[...]On better than a 3+[...]"

 

So it could be: if you're rolling 2s (ie: wounding him on a 2,3,4,5,6) to wound they just get flat out negated. vs wounding on a 3+ (3,4,5,6) which would not get negated.

or

You're wounding Dorn on a 4+, negate any 2s.

 

I'd play it the Former way since it makes the most sense to me :P Unless I'm missing the obvious.

I would prefer it the former way, but i feel that for his cost that is simply way too good so I'd play it the latter.