Need Help with my Alpha Legion (1500)

[Operative]

Hello Everyone,

I'm not a super competitive player so I don't expect my list to win ever game I play but I would appreciate it if I could get a bit of help with it.

 

HQ:

Legion Praetor: ( 155 Points)

Digital Lasers, Combat Shield, Venom Spheres, Power Lance, Archeotec Pistol

 

Elites:

Templar Brethren: (210 Points) Nuncio Vox, 6 Members

-          Legion Rhino (45 Points) Auxiliary Drive

 

Destroyer Squad (260 Points) 10 Legionaries, 2 Rad Missile Launchers, 1 Phosphex Bomb

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (55 Points) Laser Destroyer Array

 

Troops:

Legion Tactical Squad: (165 Points) Melta Bombs, Nuncio Vox

Legion Tactical Squad (155 Points) Melta Bombs

Legion Assault Squad: (285 Points) Sergeant Melta Bombs, 2x Plasma Pistols

 

Heavy Support:

Sicaran Venator: (190 Points)

Total: 1500 Points

 

In this list I am using the Alpha Legion's own Rite of War so I will have to give all the units infiltrate, is this a waste and should I instead give all my squads transport so I could choose a more beneficial special rule?

Also just to clarify the Praetor will be joining the Templar Brethren inside the Rhino and I plan to deep strike the Assault Squad.

 

Thanks!

[Secrets & Lies]

Keeping the transports frees up your mutable tactics choice. 

[GreyCrow]

Exactly what Secrets & Lies :)

 

I don't play much heresy, but the tactical analysis of the Alpha Legion's rules drives me to think that the Rite of War is mainly designed for larger points battles. First of all, you have to have an extra Troops choice, which costs quite a bit of points, and secondly you have to ensure that all your infantry has transports or can Deep Strike if you want to be able to benefit from the Mutable Tactics.

In smaller games, these extra points will take up a large portion of the points that you would rather have on your support units in my humble opinion. In larger points games (2000) where you are likely to take an extra Troops choices anyways and will probably use transports to shield/give mobility to your units, this is much less of a worry.

 

I think the greatest strength of the Rite of War comes from the fact that AL armies are able to take a unit from other Legions rather than offer tactical flexibility like other Rites of War. So, if you really want to take your Templar Brethren then go crazy on the Rite of War, otherwise a pure Alpha Legion list without external units would work really well in my humble opinion.

 

Mutable Tactics are really awesome ! In some cases, Infiltrate isn't the most optimal choice you could go for and I know that playing Raven Guard in 40k with army-wide Scout : you don't always want to go in the enemy's face, and you don't always feel the need to redeploy. So, having the option to get other special rules is awesome to keep competitive.

[Operative]

With Infiltrate its not always necessary to put your units 18" away (correct me if I'm wrong) so my thinking was that I could use it to put my units in cover before the game starts and just close in slightly, which would make it better than scout wouldn't it?

 

The only other option for mutable tactics I can see in smaller point games is Tank Hunters or Counter Attack but seeing as I'm not running a very Assault or Anti-Armour based list then wouldn't infiltrate be an average middle ground?

 

I'm open to suggestion though, would choosing certain units help with a certain rule given by Mutable tactics and are Templars one of the better choices for "Rewards of Treachery"? (I thought they were quite cost effective)

[GreyCrow]

Infiltrate and Scouts are similar but very different, both with their own strengths and weaknesses Infiltrate allows to deploy after your opponent has deployed to ensure a counter deployment where your units are placed ideally for increased damage dealt or decreased damage taken by negtaing line of sight or ensuring cover like you said.

Scouts, on the other hand, works best to bait your opponent into a counter deployment then redeploy accordingly. With a Null deployment for Infiltrate, the opponent is likely to deploy conservatively and defensively. With a Scouts deployment, the enemy will counter deploy accordingly to your own deployment, then you can counter redeploy with Scouts. More than once did the opponent deployed where I wanted his units to deploy without him knowing it and then I took the upper hand with Scouts. It's trickery in its purest form ^^

It is a particularly effective tools against Infiltrators, because the redeployment takes place after Infiltrators have deployed So if you're facing against a Raven Guard army for example, their Infiltrator's deployment will be hampered and you'll have negated a good amount of their Legiones' rule advantage

Like you said, Infiltrate is the all around rule to use, but when facing a close range, armoured heavy force you might be better off hanging back with Tank Hunters. After all, no need to rush forward into the enemy's kill zone, because you might not be doing enough damage first turn to cripple him from blasting you in return fire (or leave you hanging in the open if they Seize). I think one of the easiest way to look at the Alpha Legion's ruleset is as a tool to give as much control over the enemy's army as possible, rather than boosting the effectiveness if the units. Winning with Alpha Legion is trying to figure out what the enemy's battle plan is and then picking the best special rule to diminish it in my humble opinion. Against upcoming Thousand Sons, Adamantium Will will be awesome to diminish their psychic firepower, while against Iron Hands tank hunters will work wonders (I'm fantasizing on a Legion Jetbike unit armed with Culvarins with Tank Hunters just moving on to side arcs and glancing tank squadrons to death ^^ or Plasma Support Squads making short work of any AV11).

______

On to your suggestions, I'm not knowledgeable of most good Legion units, but I feel the Templar Brethren fill a nice gap in Alpha Legion army lists because they are an efficient dedicated close combat unit, while I imagine that most of the AL's units are going to be shooty based. One suggestion I might recommend is to give your Templar a Land Raider (maybe taking the points by reducing points elsewhere ? Perhaps by Dropping the Rapier Battery and limiting the Destroyer squad to 5 men, dropping the Rhino on the Templar Squad) Phobos as a dedicated transport. My only fear is that once they've disembarked from the Rhino they won't be able to charge for a turn, giving ample time to enemy units to shoot them to death or counter assault them.

I like your idea of selecting units that would benefit for one (or a few) Tactics. I guess it depends what kind of assets you lack in your list. Once again, the problem I see is the extra tax with an extra Troops choice and the transport tax. Perhaps dropping the Assault Squad for some Tactical squad, and getting 3 Rhinos for them ? That way your Mutable Tactics would be freed up

I do really like the idea of your Praetor riding along with the Templars ! Ultimate Treachery :D

[infyrana]

Might wish to check your points costs for the Destroyer squad :)

[Operative]

Thanks for the replies so far everyone, especially Greycrow for your insight!

Might wish to check your points costs for the Destroyer squad

Are you sure my points are wrong I've just had a look at the costs off all the upgrades but I think their points cost is ok (I can't tell if your trying to say I should scale them back)

Also after re-calculating the points I've noticed I've gone 20 over, so I'll update the list later on, perhaps with some of the suggestions you made Greycrow.

[GreyCrow]

My pleasure Operative, Hydra Dominatus !

 

Please note that I'm not as familiar with 30k as I am with 40k, but because the two game systems are so similar and use the same special rules, the analysis generally remains ;) On another note, if you feel that you are lacking a bit of anti-tank, a seeker squad with combi-meltas and a rhino would work very well as well :)

[infyrana]

Op, the barebones squad of 10 without jump packs is 250, add in the two Missile Launchers (which is the points you're missing) and Phosphex, and you're definitely going over 250 unless the Betrayal book has been heavily altered in the newer red book.  Hope it helps :)  I misread quite a few things in the book at first in trying to sort out points, the more common being the application of points per model for upgrades instead of one per squad etc (ie extraCCWs).

[Secrets & Lies]

Exactly what Secrets & Lies

*raises glass of fine whisky*

[Hesh Kadesh]

Your Praetor cannot take Power Lances. They are limited to Swords, Axes and Mauls for Power Weapons. Venom Spheres are a waste. Archaeotech is an expensive toy. Without more shots, I don't find dumping that many points into shooting to be too useful. 

 

I wouldn't put the Templars in a Rhino; they cannot charge on the turn they disembark; but having said that, their Infiltrate, 6" move, 6" disembark and run can get them in position for a turn 2 charge, so that's not bad. 

 

Destroyers; that's a lot of points to dump on a pair of blasts. As said, you're also not accounted for some points somewhere; these should be 310 as equipped. 

 

Not sold on Plasma Pistols, really for the Assault Squad. If you have to take them, I'd make them more capable at assaulting, and make use of their access to power swords to mince enemy attacks. I wouldn't bother with a Meltabomb, as you can always fall back against things like Walkers and instead use your speed to try and avoid them, taking on your chosen targets.

 

And short of upping the points costs, there's not much advice for 1.5K lists. Legion lists suffer thanks to the pointless high tax on units.

[PastelAvenger]

Here's my 2 pennies worth

 

A Praetor really should have a Paragon Blade, Power Dagger, Iron Halo and extra wargear depending on the squad he is joining.

 

I feel your Destroyer squad is too big at this level.

 

Your Templar Bretheren need a Land Raider to get about a Rhino isn't much good. I would personally drop the Venator and Rapier battery (1 is going to do nothing), try and pick up two Land Raiders for the Destroyers and Templar Bretheren.

 

Plasma Pistols are pointless and your Assault Squad would do better with Power Weapons.

 

All Sargeants should really be given AA and a PF.