Guardsman1275 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I have played quite a few games as the AM, but I have lost most. It seems to me the the AM are not very good. Their units die to anything very fast and their only good wepons are on tanks, meaning you can only take a few. Overall while I love the models and fluff for the AM I am getting very frusterated with constantly loosing to the point where I might just switch factions. By the way I play mech so it could mean that I have go with blob guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 troll detected? what point value do you play? what units did you field, what did your opponent field? any codex can be difficult to master, so don't write off our dex too early! mech guardsmen are incredibly competitive, especially in maelstromgames where we have the ability to capture many objectives due to the amount of mechanised troops we can field Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yeah - maybe start with just posting the list you used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Guard are not bad at all. Not one of the top tier codices but certainly not one of the lowest. There's many ways to play a Guard army but the main thing is to play the Guard way. You will not win games thinking like a Marine, a dirty Eldars or anyone else. To win you must win the Guard way! :tu: Numbers is a game Guard can play very well for example. It's all about the greater whole rather than the individual, it's a vital part of the mindset. It's why I focus on more units over fancy upgrades as that's what wins me games. Surround, neutralise and take out the enemy - use his strengths against him and force the game to play how you want. The key to any victory but Guard can do it well by sheer weight of numbers (models and dice!). Last but not least it takes time to learn an army especially if you're switching to a different play style and sometimes you'll get a bad match up (whether army list or player...) so you shouldn't let your head go down. It may be a case that you're need to mix your army up a bit, perhaps try a hybrid list? Guard are a slow army to build up due to the numbers required which is unavoidable at the beginning, something us veterans sometimes forget... So as mentioned giving us some list stuff to peruse would help a lot, especially details on the types of opponent you have - but the best teacher is experience so in this we can only guide you from afar so to speak. Fortunately there are a lot of good and experiences commanders here to give you aid :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Become one with the Guard and you will become many- Imperial Guard Zen Moment of the Week I couldn't agree more with what everyone has said so far. The list would be helpful. Maybe you need less squishy humans and more armour. Or, do the opposite and go all-out squishy. I learned the hard way that a Leman Russ exactly where you want it is bliss, but it's not always possible. Also, giving your opponent too many targets can be useful. It doesn't mean you have to run a blob. That's the good thing about Guard- your options are almost limitless! The fuzzy taco gets thrown out- Imperial Guard Zen Moment of the Day Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I think a lot depends on what codex your opponent is using. I've been playing guard since 1998, and I haven't yet won a game against daemons in 8th edition. Nids can be tough, too, and I'm 0-3 against the shiny new necron book. On the other hand, pretty much everything else folds quickly...I understand where you're coming from, though. My shop has 4-5 brand new IG players, and they struggle to win. I wonder if you're struggling with the IG learning curve (if you're coming from space marines, it's tough to learn how to cope with 5+ armor on a T3 model), or if it's the 40k learning curve...is this your first army? How long have you played 40k? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 We'll forgo the 'bad workmen blame their tools' analogy (which is entirely unproductive and I don't know why I haven't deleted it yet) and move straight on to what you're facing out there. Of course anything fast is a problem - the guard aren't a list that you can easily optimise for countering speed short of laying down obscene amounts of firepower. What you need to do is play to the strengths of the army - hordes of models. Taking a tank-heavy force may seem a viable option (actually, it is, depending on the tanks) but it could very well leave you with an army short of what strength it needs. Seriously think about whether or not upgrading a unit is genuinely worth it. Can you squeeze the army for another unit of models? Remember - so what if a space marine can save against two in every three shots? He'll fail against one sooner or later, given enough lasguns. Also - pie-plates are your friends. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I can definitely feel your pain. Guard are a very tough army to play competitively. I have been toying with different lists for a couple of months now and I'm finally getting the hang of them. I primarily play Space Wolves and it has taken me some time to come to terms with the fact that my humble guardsmen are not glorious Grey Hunters and my play style has to evolve to do well. I agree with what those before me have stated and it would definitely help if you told us what you're up against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 When I got back into 40k, I got a dark vengeance set, and I started learning Dark Angels, but I abandoned them in short order for Tau, because they just didn't seem right. I moved on from Tau to Space Wolves, I still play both of those armies, and I've really dug into the Codecies. I had a friend that would play my dark angels, so I'd help him build lists, which helped me gain an appreciation for the DA. I wanted to have some scions to play, because I liked the models, and I wanted some Skaerls for my Wolves. The more I looked at it, the more I realized guard were fun. I play my guard as a sort of cross between my Tau and Wolves, Tau because I try to avoid CC, while maximizing my shooting, and wolves in that I deploy them forward to maximize their potential to kill things. You have to figure out how you want to play the army, and you have to get the hang of the army. Like others have said, what are you using, and what are you up against? Is it your first army? Or are you new to it? Every army can win, and every player can find a way to win consistently. I took me almost two months, to start winning consistently. Remember if you win 3 out of 5 games, you're doing well. A 60% win rate is fantastic, even a 50% win rate is good. This game takes patience. How experienced are your opponents? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4013977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Every loss can be a victory. As long as you learn from your mistakes. Remember insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. If you try something and it works continue if you try something and it fails don't do it again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 At this point I think we need guardsman1275 to return and give us some info. At its core the guard are a middle of the road army that takes a fair bit of thought to play properly. So in the sense of WAAC yes they are weak, in a friendly environment they are a great army to play and play against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Agreed, we do need more information. Tau are a very similar army in terms of play style, at least the way I play. There is cheese to be found in any codex you just need to look for it. I play my guardsmen like I play my Tau, accounting for the range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 http://i.imgur.com/O2ME8Oz.jpgJK JK lol.I had a tough time starting off with the Guard as well, but after I learned to play to the guard's strengths I gradually got better. Stick with it and you will see the might of the Hammer of the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman1275 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Here is the list HQ Vanquisher Lascannon LRBT Troops Veteran Squad 3x Melta Chimera Heavy Stubber Dozer Blade Veteran Squad 3x Melta Chimera Heavy Stubber Dozer Blade Heavy Support LRBT LRBT Wyvern 1000 points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman1275 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 This is the first army I have played Here are the factions that people around me are playing, Dark Eldar, Eldar, Necrons, Inquisition, Skitari, Necrons, Space Marines, and Tyranids Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman1275 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I do not hate the AM, but I am getting frusterated with almost always losing. I only won against a first time player who didn't know how to play very well Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Might I ask, are you limited by what models you own? This would be useful in terms of us recommending how you alter your current list. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Flexibility is the key to the IG. You need to set your army to maximize it's strengths against your opponent's weakness: Dark Eldar and Eldar are fast but light so heavy bolters, autcocannons, heavy flamers. Can't give advice against Skitarii as I haven't faced them yet. Necrons need big AP weapons but they can't field a lot at 1000 points. Space Marines should be pretty straight forward. Nids are a tough nut to crack. At least at a 1000 points you're not going to see a lot of MCs. Orders will make or break an IG army. I'd lose one or both of those Battle Tanks and the Vanquisher. They can be very target specific. Punisher, Eradicator, Demolisher and Executioner are much better and more flexible. I'd drop one of your vet squads and bring in either another Wyvren or a Basilisk. I took 8 straight losses against all armies I faced but now no one in my meta really wants to face me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman1275 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I own a command squad, a comissar, 3 infantry squads a chimera and a LRBT I proxy for everything else Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Your list is very Russ-heavy I feel, I used to run similar lists and the Russ gets utterly trounced by close-combat and don't put out that much firepower on target for their points. Without a good Platoon to cover them against charges and Drop Pods, etc, they really struggle. My standard 1K list uses a Platoon of 30-40 men with a couple of Hellhound chassis vehicles for fast anti-tank. I also use a Vanquisher Commander with a Demolisher wingman, and maybe a Wyvern and a Melta Vet team to fill in the gaps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I play both Tyranids and Imperial Guard. If you let us know what's in the Tyranid army, I can help you take it apart. Even just a general idea of what he's taking will help, we can probably guess what bioforms he's using by description if you don't know the name of everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman1275 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Do you think that heavy artillery is worth it? In my FLGS the tables are not huge so the range restrictons is not worth it. Should I take a lascannon vanquisher for long range AT and a Wyvern for anti infantry fire. I will probably take a wyvern in every list I plan to use. They should do well against anything but MEQ's and against dark elday they are amazing, since DA rely on cover saves to survive. Anyways would this be a solid foundation for a list HQ CCS 2x melta vox Troops PCS vox heavy weapon IS heavy Weapon vox IS heavy Weapon vox IS heavy Weapon vox PCS grenade launcher vox vets 2x melta vox chimera Fast Attack Hellhound heavy flamer Hellhound heavy flamer Heavy Support LR demo wyvern this should be 1000 points, tell me what you think! I have yet to play against the tyranid army. The person who plays them just got skitari and played them instead when we played. What I do know is that he has a low model count and used lots of ranged units, as tyranids. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman1275 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 The only thing I am hurting for in this list is AT weapons. Outside of the demolisher I have nothing above strength 8. I will probably have problems against Necrons. SPHEESSS MARINESS shouldn't be super hard as they die faster than necrons and they can't do much against large numbers of troops. What about inquisitions? in a pure inquisition list what should I worry about? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Median Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I always go for lascannons and multimelta sponsons on my leman Russ (excluding ordinance variants). that'll give nice anti tank and anti 2+ saves. If forgeworld is allowed then Earthshakers artillery batteries are quite nice and also quite hard to kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I have yet to play against the tyranid army. The person who plays them just got skitari and played them instead when we played. What I do know is that he has a low model count and used lots of ranged units, as tyranids. Yeh, that's not unusual. Tyranids are a ranged army nowadays, unfortunately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306383-are-the-astra-militarum-bad/#findComment-4014910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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