Sternguards + Drop Pods : Usefull?

[eclipseone]

Hey Guys,

 

Would like to get some opinions on the Sternguards. I notice they aren't in many of the BA Army Lists posted here and wondering why. I realize they are expensive to field but even a 10 man squad with no upgrades could still be a nice threat to drop down? I'm looking to field 2 Grey Hunter Units, but I am toying with the idea of one GH unit and one sternguard unit. (in my SW/BA list)

 

9 Stern with a Libby could be a nasty little team. Libby could either boost them offensively or defensively depending. I'm still not sure how to even load out the sternguard. With a possibility of up to 10 combi-weapons is expensive but also quite useful - with that many combi you could almost get away with running dissimilar combi-weapons in the squad.

 

Thoughts?

[Blood & Thunder]

I think the main point as you pointed out is cost. it also comes down to if you are willing to sacrifice an elite slot for a unit you know will be destroyed by basic fire. I know a suicide drop is done by a furioso but that pulls away low ap fire from your other units. I think they can still work really well, But Perhaps the discussion should focus on the optimal loadout/number of sternguard

[eclipseone]

I think the main point as you pointed out is cost. it also comes down to if you are willing to sacrifice an elite slot for a unit you know will be destroyed by basic fire. I know a suicide drop is done by a furioso but that pulls away low ap fire from your other units. I think they can still work really well, But Perhaps the discussion should focus on the optimal loadout/number of sternguard

Thanks for the reply. I am running a Drop Frag Furioso and a Murderfang/Blizzard Dread - so getting 3 pods on turn one is a reality.

[Lucumon]

Opportunity Cost & easy substitution: Meltacide squads can put out 4 melta shots for 135.  How much would 5 dudes, 4 melta shots, and a drop pod be for Sternguard?  The elites slot is pretty competitive for BA as well... since other units can fill the armor-busting role, the DC, Sang. Guard, Van. Vets, etc have more capability that most people consider to be more valuable than highly priced and equipped tactical marines.

[eclipseone]

Opportunity Cost & easy substitution: Meltacide squads can put out 4 melta shots for 135.  How much would 5 dudes, 4 melta shots, and a drop pod be for Sternguard?  The elites slot is pretty competitive for BA as well... since other units can fill the armor-busting role, the DC, Sang. Guard, Van. Vets, etc have more capability that most people consider to be more valuable than highly priced and equipped tactical marines.

 

I can tell you easily that 5 stern in a pod with melta would be way more than the meltacide. You can nearly get 3 pods of meltacide for the same as a 10man stern. What's your suggestion for van vets in a pod?

 

edit: i see they can't take melta so a pod probably isn't the way to go with them

[Just4uCupCake]

For what you want to use you stern for I instead run a ASM with 5 men Vet Serg Upgrade who has two infernus pistols (hence getting the gunslinger rule) Meltabomb and two of the guys with melta guns in a drop pod (pod comes for free if you eschew JP) half as cheap as maxed out stern. you can field a Termie squad with TH and SS with are more cost effective than stern G. Dont even think about running Van G because they threw away heroic intervention. Honestly what roll do you want those sterns to fill?

[Ovidius Incertus]

SG could be effective MC hunters: two grav guns, combi gravs and, at last resort, 2+ poisoned bolters.  ASM are still probably better for melta (x4 shots in a 5-man squad) and flamer delivery.

[Just4uCupCake]

If you want a MC hunter Might I suggest Mephiston ( has 7 str 10 AP 2 attacks on charge I believe when u Activate his force) with Honor G with meltas and JP to kill anything? or a Libby dred. the first option listed is a little expensive points wise but far more effective and versatile  

 

EDIT: mephy CC force attacks are Instant Death

[Golden Aegis]

I suggest dropping more then just sternguards if you are going to use pods. My pod list drops 5 units on turn one so there are plenty of targets.

[Ming]

I'd say that fluff wise, Blood Angels have no Sternguard...or Vanguard.  You either succumb to the Black Rage, or deploy in terminator armor....or join the Sanguinary Guard.  As stated, the FOC only has so many slots....when I played Ultras, Sternguard were a keystone of many of my lists (if not all).  Now playing Blood Angels, I don't even consider them.  

[eclipseone]

Thanks for the replies I'll probably just run wolf guard terminators instead. And yes I am running a 5 pod list

[Red-beard]

I'm not a big fan of the double inferno pistol. It's very expensive and there's a risk you won't have the 3" range you need to get the extra d6. I like keeping it cheap....five assault marines in a pod w/ two melta guns and a combi melta.

 

That's much more points efficient than sternguard with combi-meltas, imo.

[Lucumon]

...there's a risk...

 

Welcome to Warhammer 40k.

 

Given the 6" deployment from the pod and how it 'stops' before landing on top of other troops, I've found this really isn't an issue. For 20 points more than the combi-melta, you get an extra shot.  From a points per melta shot perspective, it is a more cost-efficient option (in my opinion).  An increased chance at a destruction (in how I play) is of greater benefit to my meta than the perceived low risk of scattering out of range (9" from where the drop pod lands).

 

Edit: Is it obvious this is my opinion?

[Golden Aegis]

I agree with the double infernus pistols, there had been a few times where the extra shot changed the game for me. And I find it rather easy to get the 3" melta range with the 6" deployment, and placing the pod as close to the vehicle that you can.

[shandwen]

Sternguard and Vanguard only have a few uses over other choices for BA. DC can generally do better but storm shields can make a difference. BA has great assault bonuses, that sternguard just don't synergize with.

[Helias_Tancred]

Hey Guys,

 

Would like to get some opinions on the Sternguards. I notice they aren't in many of the BA Army Lists posted here and wondering why. I realize they are expensive to field but even a 10 man squad with no upgrades could still be a nice threat to drop down? I'm looking to field 2 Grey Hunter Units, but I am toying with the idea of one GH unit and one sternguard unit. (in my SW/BA list)

 

9 Stern with a Libby could be a nasty little team. Libby could either boost them offensively or defensively depending. I'm still not sure how to even load out the sternguard. With a possibility of up to 10 combi-weapons is expensive but also quite useful - with that many combi you could almost get away with running dissimilar combi-weapons in the squad.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think they're great, but unfortunately our elites slot is limited to 4 and we have some strong choices. But hey don't be afraid to think out of the box. I just tabled a Tau player a few days ago and I was running a Blood Angels list that included no death company in it. I did just fine. So don't be afraid to experiment. If used to their strengths, a 10 man squad of sternguard can really lay waste to stuff on the board.

[shandwen]

I will say that when you play the same group of people regularly (if they are competitive) throwing a curve-ball like a BA stern squad can be quite effective.  It is not what the internet says is worth it, so it will surprise.

[InquisitorBlack]

Sternguard 5 melta/5 plasma combat squadding out of a pod are a very powerful alpha strike tool.

 

Meltacide assault squads are a lot cheaper, but their output of shots isn't as impressive.

 

Sternguard become better when you take multiple units. At a certain quantity they will come down and lay waste to lots of enemy units, increasing their chances of survival, creating a snowball effect.

[Lucumon]

5 man ASM Meltacide, 4 shots = 135 => 33.75 points per melta-shot from a drop pod

5 man Sternguard Meltacide, 5 shots = 195 points => 39 Points per melta-shot from a drop pod... even at 10 men, the pts per meltashot is 35.5.

My conclusion: for busting armor and then dying in place to let the Stormravens filled with flamer weapons to show up and fry the crunchies: ASM is better.

 

ASM Plasmacide, 6 shots = 125 points => 21 Points per plasma shot

Sternguard Plasmacide, 10 shots, 195 points => 19.5 points per plasma shot

Although, given the special ammo, this becomes fuzzy as the intent is not to bust armor, but to break heavily armoured infantry.

[Just4uCupCake]

All in all it all comes down to what models you like the most and how YOU want to play it. If you prefer cheap melta pod spam with ASMs and spend the points used else where be my guest. If you want to get those pretty stern kits for $50 for 5 models and cost more points but also have a few different uses then be my guest. it is all really how you want to play what the meta of your list is how others you play against run their armies and what models you want to field at the end of the day if you get more enjoyment out of the Stern then go with the stern theyn are a fun and versatile unit to use but for someone like me who likes to be points effective as possible I will go with the ASM meltacide

[InquisitorBlack]

5 man ASM Meltacide, 4 shots = 135 => 33.75 points per melta-shot from a drop pod

5 man Sternguard Meltacide, 5 shots = 195 points => 39 Points per melta-shot from a drop pod... even at 10 men, the pts per meltashot is 35.5.

My conclusion: for busting armor and then dying in place to let the Stormravens filled with flamer weapons to show up and fry the crunchies: ASM is better.

 

ASM Plasmacide, 6 shots = 125 points => 21 Points per plasma shot

Sternguard Plasmacide, 10 shots, 195 points => 19.5 points per plasma shot

Although, given the special ammo, this becomes fuzzy as the intent is not to bust armor, but to break heavily armoured infantry.

 

Nice maths, but there's a resource you're not considering: Force Org slots.

 

For 10 melta shots, you're going to need 3 squads of ASM. There squads are also going to cluster themselves are potentially struggle to maximise their inferno pistol shots.

 

These leaves you unable to purchase any plasma shots using ASM, unless you want to roll with the Flesh tearers detachment, thus further clustering your drop area and removing the capacity to run a CAD for objective secured (which is awesome on your back pods).

[Helias_Tancred]

I think its situational between using the two different units. I definitely see and have played games where a sternguard unit would have been quite a nice tool to have in my arsenal at that time.

[Lucumon]

 

Nice maths, but there's a resource you're not considering: Force Org slots.

 

For 10 melta shots, you're going to need 3 squads of ASM. There squads are also going to cluster themselves are potentially struggle to maximise their inferno pistol shots.

 

These leaves you unable to purchase any plasma shots using ASM, unless you want to roll with the Flesh tearers detachment, thus further clustering your drop area and removing the capacity to run a CAD for objective secured (which is awesome on your back pods).

 

How does Force Org come into the point that ASM is a more cost effective way to meltacide? Can you expand... I don't see how this is a valid point.

 

I've run games where I used 3 suicide squads (2 were assault, one was tactical)... and did not have a clustering issue. (see here for the battle report: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305960-1850-blood-angels-vs-imperial-guard/  ) I ran this as a CAD and it rocked... so I don't know if your points are valid all the time.

 

If anything, the drop pods clustering issue is part of the reason to run them against some opponents... You can block their land vehicles from advancing, block line of sight... how is this a bad thing?

 

All nitpicking aside, my analysis shows (me) that ASM meltacide is preferred over Sternguard... Sternguard are more flexible for other things.

[Captain Caine 24th]

In the previous codex I ran sternguard with combi-melta and a Pod frequently.  I'm a strong believer in melta guns. I suppose maybe D is better but it has it's limitations. These days with cover saves on lots of vehicles it's generally best to have a lot of shots. Anyway, what I like about sternguard is that they are capable of doing what they are supposed to do. Plinking shots with a lascannon at a landraider from across the table doesn't really do the job. 

 

I don't use sternguard much anymore. Maybe it's the points increase. Maybe I'm just thinking about Blood Angels differently with this codex. I could see Mephiston, some other characters, and a pod of command squad or sternguard forming the basis to build a list--possibly buffing/supporting two nearby pods. I think there's an idea there. Combi plasma might even be a good idea really (grav is probably better left to bikes or scouts). Likewise, with detachments/formations becoming more and more a central part of the game, some battle brothers at lower points costs aren't a bad idea for those open drop pods. 

 

I will say that I still use a Stormraven or two and anti-tank equipped drop pods have long been nearly essential for me to break up enemy skyfire units in the backfield. 

[Xenith]

I'd say that fluff wise, Blood Angels have no Sternguard...or Vanguard.  You either succumb to the Black Rage, or deploy in terminator armor....or join the Sanguinary Guard.  As stated, the FOC only has so many slots....when I played Ultras, Sternguard were a keystone of many of my lists (if not all).  Now playing Blood Angels, I don't even consider them.  

 

Not for the past half decade. Also Veteran assault squads have been in the background for almost 20 years, so that is also incorrect.

 

Sanguinary Guard duties are also above and beyond 1st company. All TDA 1st company with no SG or VG is a Dark Angel thing. Maybe you're getting them mixed up?