Night Lords warband fluff help

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Now i know normally Night Lords abhor chaos but im thinking of going with a kind of chaos worshipping idea for my Night Lords. Anyone got any idea how i could have them going with this idea without basically becoming blue black legion or word bearers

[Aeternus]

One idea could be to have a lord fully dedicated to bleeding the imperium, and thus working out the true benefits they give, the power he can use from them to further the night lords ideals. In short, a warband who believe they fully control the chaos they are working with, rather than them being used by it, and as such look down with disdain on those who worship that which seems like a weapon (word bearers), those who deny themselves the power (iron warriors), and those who fully give themselves up to it (black legion)

Kinda fits In with the night lords theme of 'use every dirty trick and advantage you can get, and then some, before fighting a fair fight'

 

That's how I see a Chas night lords warband, though might be slightly too Black Legion for your tastes.

[Forté]

Yes. They are a NL warband that has embraced Chaos. Like the Exhaulted in the Talos novels. Just because a bit of fluff somewhere says they abhor chaos, doesn't mean that can't use it.

 

You'll find that many people don't like the current 'Night Lords = Raptors' idea so they don't go with it and do their own thing.

 

The important parts are the colour scheme and terror.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Excellent :D i may go with the idea they believe they control chaos could be rather amusibg when one of them ascends

[Carrack]

Another option might be that your warband splintered off of a larger warband. The larger warband may have taken the anti-chaos view more seriously than most Night Lords, and your Chaos Lord saw this as an opportunity. He gathered all the Night Lords that were dissatisfied with the anti-chaos view, or too far under the sway of the gods for the current Chaos Lord's taste and struck out on his own.

[GreyCrow]

I've had a similar problem with my nascent Alpha Legion warband... AL and NL are more Renegades than they are Chaos Marines, and the current Codex really feels like Codex: Black Legion with the large emphasis on using Chaos ^^

 

I've gone with a similar route, basically accepting Chaos as a weapon rather than an end in itself. So your Night Lords would be indirectly working for the Chaos gods' purposes while fulfilling their own needs. Kind of a mutually profitable agreement :)

[Leif Bearclaw]

Now i know normally Night Lords abhor chaos but im thinking of going with a kind of chaos worshipping idea for my Night Lords. Anyone got any idea how i could have them going with this idea without basically becoming blue black legion or word bearers

 

Although almost no stereotype holds true for 100% of a Traitor Legion, the standard Word Bearer is a rather specific, rigid form of Chaos worship. They tend to have a focus on despoiling elements of Imperial faith, converting other to the Eighfold path and a heavy reliance on scripture. It'd be relatively easy to keep a Warband faithful to the Gods, but without the trappings the WBs tend to employ. For example, instead of the 'evil priest' theme, where the Book is the key, your guys could be led by a more shamanic figure, without a codified doctrine (other than general themes of evil, blood, strife etc.) who instead listens to the whispers of Daemons (or just his own mania) and interprets the 'will of the Gods' from that.

 

As for not being Black Legion, that's even simpler. Don't have your guys prostrate themselves before Abaddon . Either you agree with the BL detractors, and Abby's boys are generic, characterless poster boys, or you're on the more pro-BL side, where they're such a diverse mob that there isn't really an overarching theme or character between Warbands other than 'wear Black' and 'do Abby's bidding'. Whichever way you lean, loyalty to Abby's the thing.

 

This is all chiefly concerned with fluff narratives, as there's precious little crunch theming to be done with CSMs these days, the only real difference between an Iron Warrior, Night Lord or Alpha Legionary being a paint scheme.

[Balthamal]

The great thing about Chaos marines of any Legion/Chapter is that you're pretty much free to go with any path you like. You can go full on worship Chaos for the glory of the Pantheon or they can be of the more cynical and opportunistic variety in that they are perfectly happy to do what's required to get the "benefits" of the powers in the Warp without going completely into Word Bearer territory where the glory of the Chaos Pantheon is it's own reward.

 

If you've got the patience for it I suggest checking out the Murderer's Call thread. We've pretty much discussed/debated/dissected each and every possibility when it comes to the VIII Legion  

[Rain]

Also keep in mind that Chaos affects even those that do not worship or even acknowledge it. So for example, say a warband of Night Lords conquers a demon world in the Eye and sets it up as their fortress/palace from which to rule and build up their forces. Well, this would also directly expose them to the warp and so they would begin to mutate and be mentally steered in one direction or another by various Chaos gods depending on their existing predilections toward self aggrandizement, bloodlust, cynicism, etc.

 

As for demon engines, that's even easier to explain, the demons inserted into fiends and defilers and whatnot are already essentially enslaved, so the NL use various rituals to capture demons and force them into walker chassis to be used as disposable shock troops. Very Night Lord-y assuming your warband has the resources to construct the shells and the sorcerers to bind the demons, which some of the larger warbands certainly would.

 

The only potential issue is full on cult marines, but those would be best handled as mercenaries from their respective cult legion as the Night Lords would hardly be above hiring outside help, especially when their actual agenda is probably to use the cult mercs as diversions or cannon fodder for their own schemes.

[Kol Saresk]

Thankfully, A D-B's series has provided us with many "template" Night Lords.

 

The Exalted: Typical, full-blown knowingly worshipping, Chaos Marine

 

Uzas: The Traitor Marine who thinks he can bargain with the gods.

 

Cyrion: The Traitor Marine who unknowingly behaves in the manner of a specific god's chosen champions and as a result, is(again unknowingly) claimed by that god.

 

Talos: Straight-laced "I will never serve or barter with the powers of Chaos!" while still contributing to their overall schemes by participating in Black Crusades and weakening/destroying their enemies.

 

And to expand on what Forte said, the Night Lords community at large does not have a problem with Night Lord Raptor armies. But their have been instances(which can be found on this very forum via the search bar using keyword "raptors") in which some have said that Night Lord armies should not be built without Raptors and that they should even be Raptor heavy.

 

But that is a different topic and if you wish to continue discussing it, my pm box is always open.

[bozo69pd]

I think in forge world 30k the night lord army has raptor bonuses too. Also in the Night Lord series alot of people miss that the main raptor whose name starts with a L... can't remember, has Nurgles mark. That Red Corsair apothecary comments on it at the end of the book.

 

I am considering starting a KDK warp talon night lord army. With flesh hounds of course. In the nightlord books they even encounter warp talons and comment on how that could happen to them if they got trapped in the warp. I could totally see the arrogant, combat hungry Raptor craving more blood while fighting in the warp and devolving into a warp talon. Warp Talons could be pretty damn good now that they count as both a mark and daemon of khorne. Bring one Raptor Lord for them, one Juggernaught HQ for the hounds, some cultists to give you blood points and satisfy your CAD. CSM always gotta have their cultists. I mean who else is gonna shine up dat armor.

[Kol Saresk]

In Forgeworld's list, the Night Lords have a special jump pack unit(as do the Sons of Horus and Word Bearers) but the Legion-specific Rite of War instead focuses on the Terror Swuad. Which does not have access to jump packs.

 

And it was never explicitly said that Lucoryphus had Nurgle's Mark. In fact, it was left rather vague and dubious. What Variel comments on is that his physiology says that he should have died long ago but it somehow keeps him alive and cannibilism helps him stay "healthy". He's more like an actual ghoul whereas Nurgle's servants are usually walking plague victims.

 

I can't say I recall them running into Warp Talons though.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Thanks guys im going to go with the idea of them using a chaos as a weapon to cause more terror after all if summoning a daemonic horde scares the living bejeezus out of a enemy then all is good

[Lay]

The Night Lords don't even abhor Chaos, they scorn the concept of faith. Index Astartes notes that they've been using Chaos as a tool since the Heresy:

 

"Night Haunter was quick to pledge allegiance to Horus, and it became clear that all the allegations levelled at the Night Lords were true. From the planet of Tsagualsa, deep in the wilderness area of space known as the Eastern Fringes, the Night Lords launched a campaign of genocide and purest evil that made their previous atrocities pale in comparison. They pledged no allegiance to any particular Chaos power, looking upon such devotion with scorn. Instead, their Primarch fed on fear, and eventually became what he most loathed. Soon enough, the ranks of his once-proud Legion were entirely composed of sadistic murderers and criminals granted the power to oppress anyone they chose by the Primarch's own potent gene-seed. Rather than serving Chaos, the Night Lords used it as a tool In their inhuman works."

 

"Night Lords are exceptionally versatile in their use of the forces of Chaos, employing the hell-spawned powers of each of the major Chaos deities with equal favour. It is just as likely that the Night Lords will be seen fighting alongside a group of foul Plague Marines as it is the warriors of the Thousand Sons. However, it has been ascertained that the Night Lords have nothing but scorn for faith in ail its forms, whether it be the fanatical bloodlust of the Khornate Berzerker or the devotion of the Imperial creed. The only authority they recognise is that of temporal power and material wealth."

[bozo69pd]

In Forgeworld's list, the Night Lords have a special jump pack unit(as do the Sons of Horus and Word Bearers) but the Legion-specific Rite of War instead focuses on the Terror Swuad. Which does not have access to jump packs.

 

And it was never explicitly said that Lucoryphus had Nurgle's Mark. In fact, it was left rather vague and dubious. What Variel comments on is that his physiology says that he should have died long ago but it somehow keeps him alive and cannibilism helps him stay "healthy". He's more like an actual ghoul whereas Nurgle's servants are usually walking plague victims.

 

I can't say I recall them running into Warp Talons though.

Right on, it's just... ghouls sound pretty nurgly to me :P and I was kinda ahhh that makes sense because Lucoryphus seems pretty tough to me, he's always scrapping and taking hits but is the last man standing. So Nurgle.

 

Also you are right the Warp Talon encounter is from the ahriman books.

[Strazhakov]

Also in the Night Lord series alot of people miss that the main raptor whose name starts with a L... can't remember, has Nurgles mark. 

 

 

Finally another soul that sees the truth. I always said that Lucoryphus (tough name) was clearly corrupted by Nurgle.

He even got ressurected after taking Jain Zar's spear in the chest.

 

[bozo69pd]

when does that happen?

[Kol Saresk]

when does that happen?

It doesn't. We see him take a pretty good blow to the chest and he's presumed to be dead. Variel comes along and finds him just clinging to life and thinks it might be that his mutated physiology kept alive where some might have died.

 

Of course the key thing to remember is that he is functionally alive, in that his biology still works.

 

Nurgle's touch usually tends to kill the body of his servants and then reanimates it. And if it was the loyal soul of a cultist or space marine, then the soul also has control of the body.

 

So on the one hand, the fact that his body should have died long ago, points to Nurgle. The fact that if he consumes flesh, it begins to heal, points away from Nurgle. The fact that it has to remain functionally active in order for him to be alive, again points away from Nurgle.

 

At least with Uzas and Cyrion, it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck.

 

With Lucoryphus, we got the bill and the webbed feet.

 

Of a platypus.

[Rain]

I think implying that Lucoryphus was a Nurglite is a bit of a reach. Sure he was mutated, but all (3.5 edition style) Raptors are mutated, being more avian, with clawed feed at whatnot. They are obviously corrupted by some Chaotic power, but it appears to be more of a minor deity, or just their inherent affinity with avian predators being expressed outwardly. This also partially explains his cannibalism, it's not that he is a Plague Marine, it's that he needs to feed on his prey to live, just like an actual bird of prey. It's just another expression of his outward corruption matching his inner pathology, and as he becomes more and more corrupted by the Warp he also gains some of the unnatural resilience of demons and warp-creatures.

 

At least that's my interpretation. Especially as ADB is big on characters that don't fall neatly into a 40k unit type, for example, the Exalted seems to have traits of both a daemon prince and a possessed, and Nefertari is some kind of blend between a Scourge, a Kabalite, and a Wych. Which makes sense if you think about it, in game units are just generalized representations of the most common types of forces fielded by their respective factions. In the fluff there is a multitude of minor Chaos deities and even stranger Lovecraftian creatures all of whom have their followers, just not in enough numbers to warrant their own units and options.

 

Edit: As for the Night Lords being or not being "the Raptor Legion" this is kind of like Iron Warriors being "the Vindicator Legion". Raptors are a good fit for the Night Lords way of war, they strike fast, and use hit and run and terror tactics to demoralize and destroy foes, much like how Vindicators fit the Iron Warriors. Does that mean that every NL warband is full of Raptors? No, because jump packs are still relatively rare, and so most NL have no access to them and are untrained in their use even if they were. Just like, say, Iron Warriors and Vindicators, and Black Legion and Terminators.

 

Still, relative to other Chaos Warbands, NL are more likely to include Raptors, just as IW are more likely to include Vindicators. Some players like to play their army as a microcosm of their faction, and so would always take Raptors in their NL, Vindicators in their IW, etc, others prefer to play either heterodoxical warbands of their respective lineage, or just a warband that happens to not have access to the equipment that would fit their ideal fighting style. Both are fine, and the whole kerfuffle over this stuff is a bit silly, the only units that are really unfluffy in some Chaos armies are cult marines of an opposing cult in a cult army, ie Noise Marines in a World Eaters force, and especially if they are painted as World Eaters with Noise Weapons. Everything else makes sense as mercenaries or accidental corruption to some degree. Oh and I  guess Alpha Legion are a special case because they may or may not even be on the Chaos side.

[Balthamal]

Given Nurgle's propensity for having his servants and minions spreading disease, contagion and entropy, I think we can safely remove Lucoryphus out of that particular bracket