Today's Forgeworld goodies + Vindicator rules update

[Tyrannicide]

 

The RG bits are sooooo bland. There's better Mk. VI bits in plastic. FW has really dropped the ball on the last two Legion's upgrades. 

 

I thought the plasma Deredeo looked dumb at first, but seeing it painted up, I might like it more than the autocannon version. Fingers crossed for a volkite cannonade!

Your right about the blandness, although you could call that fluffy, the XIXth are not too big on decorations. To me it looks as if they have just used the existing RG kits and removed the purity seals. Still I like them, Mark VI has the advantage of being well supported plastic wise, so the potential for distinctive models is there.

 

 

 

 

The RG bits are sooooo bland. There's better Mk. VI bits in plastic. FW has really dropped the ball on the last two Legion's upgrades.

 

If I wanted marines dripping in bling, I'd still be building 40k models. I think they're doing a great job with keeping the look very simple and restrained for the majority of the Legions. If the preview artwork is anything to go by, the XIII Legion will change all of that, but then they always were a bit obsessive about their decorations.

 

 

You gents misinterpret what I mean by bland. I'm not asking for more 'bling'; quite the opposite actually. There's a reason why I'm a 30k'er, too. Ostentatious decoration goes completely against the visual identity of the XIX, I get that. In fact, I think the heavy handed use of the laurel motifs make little sense. FW has taken the lazy route with the IW and RG torsos. I'm imagining layered abdominal armor, raven feathers, something to give the overall shape a more sleek or avian appearance perhaps. Implement more of a Spec Ops feel, something that would be exclusive to the entire range. Where's the visual flavor? Did the culture of Deliverance have a hard time finding its way into the Legion's aesthetic? It's not the execution that I have a problem with. It's the lack of creativity, something I never thought I'd be using to call out FW.

 

Should slapping on a few laurels and bird skulls over unmodified Mk. VI bits really be considered a success now? Look at the SoH upgrades for what I would consider a home run. The sharp angular aspects are a definitive feature of the Heresy-era Sons, and it was done subtly. That's what these bits are lacking, and that could be due in part to the Raven Guard never having a strong identity. I have high standards, thanks to the overwhelming quality of the Heresy range. Let's not forget five of these cost £11.50.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Mk VI armor in the Heresy is the identity of the Raven Guard. It's almost entirely exclusive to them, which is why it doesn't need to have a bunch of changes to make it more "Raven". Me personally, I have never cared for feathers on any of the figures because they're always huge and never really look that much like feathers. And unless there's some gargantuan ravens out there to donate feathers for Astartes decorations, even the remiges (long flight feathers) would be tiny if done to scale on an Astartes model.

[The Nookie]

 

 

The RG bits are sooooo bland. There's better Mk. VI bits in plastic. FW has really dropped the ball on the last two Legion's upgrades. 

 

I thought the plasma Deredeo looked dumb at first, but seeing it painted up, I might like it more than the autocannon version. Fingers crossed for a volkite cannonade!

Your right about the blandness, although you could call that fluffy, the XIXth are not too big on decorations. To me it looks as if they have just used the existing RG kits and removed the purity seals. Still I like them, Mark VI has the advantage of being well supported plastic wise, so the potential for distinctive models is there.

 

 

 

 

The RG bits are sooooo bland. There's better Mk. VI bits in plastic. FW has really dropped the ball on the last two Legion's upgrades.

 

If I wanted marines dripping in bling, I'd still be building 40k models. I think they're doing a great job with keeping the look very simple and restrained for the majority of the Legions. If the preview artwork is anything to go by, the XIII Legion will change all of that, but then they always were a bit obsessive about their decorations.

 

 

You gents misinterpret what I mean by bland. I'm not asking for more 'bling'; quite the opposite actually. There's a reason why I'm a 30k'er, too. Ostentatious decoration goes completely against the visual identity of the XIX, I get that. In fact, I think the heavy handed use of the laurel motifs make little sense. FW has taken the lazy route with the IW and RG torsos. I'm imagining layered abdominal armor, raven feathers, something to give the overall shape a more sleek or avian appearance perhaps. Implement more of a Spec Ops feel, something that would be exclusive to the entire range. Where's the visual flavor? Did the culture of Deliverance have a hard time finding its way into the Legion's aesthetic? It's not the execution that I have a problem with. It's the lack of creativity, something I never thought I'd be using to call out FW.

 

Should slapping on a few laurels and bird skulls over unmodified Mk. VI bits really be considered a success now? Look at the SoH upgrades for what I would consider a home run. The sharp angular aspects are a definitive feature of the Heresy-era Sons, and it was done subtly. That's what these bits are lacking, and that could be due in part to the Raven Guard never having a strong identity. I have high standards, thanks to the overwhelming quality of the Heresy range. Let's not forget five of these cost £11.50.

 

 

Do have to say I agree, like the World Eaters have a lot of epic options (to which i'm happy about) and have two different head options, torsos, all fitting the gladiator theme, but then raven guard get helmets with a bird on the forehead? lol just a thought

[Daemon2027]

Mk VI armor in the Heresy is the identity of the Raven Guard. It's almost entirely exclusive to them, which is why it doesn't need to have a bunch of changes to make it more "Raven". Me personally, I have never cared for feathers on any of the figures because they're always huge and never really look that much like feathers. And unless there's some gargantuan ravens out there to donate feathers for Astartes decorations, even the remiges (long flight feathers) would be tiny if done to scale on an Astartes model.

The birds of Khaivr are supposed to be big enough to cause problems to an astartes and for a chaplain to make a helm out the skull.

I kind of see where Tyrannicide is coming from, Mark VI is very plain considering the other marks. It would of been nice to see some variation to the basic design. This is an armour that is a prototype until after the heresy kicks off's, and one that has been tested by the XIXth legion. With the laurels I like to see these as a rare honour given for heroics and service to the Imperium. My Praetor wears his with pride. The company standard bears them for the honour of the company. Not sure every tac marine needs one.

Still it gives me more room to play, and I'm looking forward to getting the kits and playing around with them.

[SkimaskMohawk]

There being birds on khiavr is limited to one fairly bad BL author; I've never taken them as canon. I'm honestly not the biggest on the bird skulls and and need for raven feathers for RG. Why cant a name just be a name and not time for animal skins/pelts/skulls?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

 

 With the laurels I like to see these as a rare honour given for heroics and service to the Imperium. My Praetor wears his with pride. The company standard bears them for the honour of the company. Not sure every tac marine needs one.

 

 

Which is why you would use the normal Mk VI kit for regular tac marines.

[Slips]

 

 

 With the laurels I like to see these as a rare honour given for heroics and service to the Imperium. My Praetor wears his with pride. The company standard bears them for the honour of the company. Not sure every tac marine needs one.

 

 

Which is why you would use the normal Mk VI kit for regular tac marines.

 

Kinda have to agree here. Unless your making an Elite Legion Unit (ie: Tac Vets, Apothecaries, Command Squads, etc.), I'd keep the Upgrade kit usage to a ~1 in 5 marine ratio barring shoulders, of course.

 

This is, however, all personal preference; so do what you want.

[Marshal Rohr]

Im actually a big fan of the RG stuff. I understand that subdued decorations is a XIX Legion trope, but we are talking a Legion of 80K here. What about the RG heavy assault formations of Breachers and Terminators? Or the Void Assault specialists? You can't have a functioning legion of nothing but reconnaissance units. 

[Daemon2027]

 

With the laurels I like to see these as a rare honour given for heroics and service to the Imperium. My Praetor wears his with pride. The company standard bears them for the honour of the company. Not sure every tac marine needs one.

 

Which is why you would use the normal Mk VI kit for regular tac marines.

Still a lot of laurels. That aside, my main point was they could of given us a slightly more varied take on Mark VI. I like the retro beaky helms with the slits in as they are different. Anyway I do like the kits, I think my point has got all turned around somewhat, my thoughts on laurels are my own, I realise I don't need to use the kit on everything. Hopefully the RG will get another kit for either of their special units and maybe an upgrade kit to make the other one, which may expand on the look of them Mark VI.

 

SkimaskMowhawk, I agree they are not great stories but they are mentioned in a few place, seems to be a rite of passage for scouts in 40k, the hunting of the birds.

[SkimaskMohawk]

As far as I know they're only mentioned by the creator, George Mann. In my mind if an idea gets used by a bunch of different authors (wraithslipping) then it becomes "official", even if its not that great of a concept 

[Daemon2027]

For some reason I thought I was mentioned in the IA8, but wasn't.

[lokkorex]

The only critisism i have of this release, is that they could have thrown a mk.2 or mk.4 torso in the raven guard torso upgrade kit.

 

I know, i know, they're THE Mk.6 legion, but they must have had some variety in the ranks, right?

[Hyaenidae]

 

Lots of nice new stuff:

 

Deimos pattern Vindicator - £49.50

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/Vindicator-laser-1.jpg

 

 

Gimme. Gimmegimmegimmegimmegimmegimme!  I'll take a half-dozen, please.  :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

I still think their normal upgrade kit is better; you get heads, backpacks, torsos, bolters and bodies for 7 gbp more than just the new torso kit

[1ncarnadine]

I still think their normal upgrade kit is better; you get heads, backpacks, torsos, bolters and bodies for 7 gbp more than just the new torso kit

 

I think you'll be seeing a helmet/torso/pad bundle for 10% off soon-ish though. And maybe they'll offer a MkVI tactical squad bundle similar to the MkII-IV ones? 

 

I kind of wish we'd see some Legion MkV and MkVI kits with more variation than the initial Badab releases, although I don't know if it would really make sense for them to do one for MkVI with the existent plastic MkVI parts out there... It'd still be cool if only to see what they could do with the parts to make them stand out from the plastic and Badab release I guess. Like with the chest plate variations on the MkIII and helmets for the MkIV.

[coloroutofspace]

On the topic of Hellfire Deredeo - can someone tell me, how is it any better than a Kheres Mortis Contemptor?

[Slips]

On the topic of Hellfire Deredeo - can someone tell me, how is it any better than a Kheres Mortis Contemptor?

Its not, really. Its meant as a TEQ Killer. The Autocannons, however, are better than a Kheres due to 4 S8 Sunder Shots at 48" vs 12 S6 Rending shots at 24"

 

The plasma not having Gets Hot! and 4 shots is very nice though!

[coloroutofspace]

 

On the topic of Hellfire Deredeo - can someone tell me, how is it any better than a Kheres Mortis Contemptor?

Its not, really. Its meant as a TEQ Killer. The Autocannons, however, are better than a Kheres due to 4 S8 Sunder Shots at 48" vs 12 S6 Rending shots at 24"

 

The plasma not having Gets Hot! and 4 shots is very nice though!

 

 

I know, but still it seems to me that a Kheres Mortis will perform better than Hellfire Deredeo in all roles and it takes an Elites slot instead of HS. FW should do something to make this Deredeo variant better.

[Slips]

 

 

On the topic of Hellfire Deredeo - can someone tell me, how is it any better than a Kheres Mortis Contemptor?

Its not, really. Its meant as a TEQ Killer. The Autocannons, however, are better than a Kheres due to 4 S8 Sunder Shots at 48" vs 12 S6 Rending shots at 24"

 

The plasma not having Gets Hot! and 4 shots is very nice though!

 

 

I know, but still it seems to me that a Kheres Mortis will perform better than Hellfire Deredeo in all roles and it takes an Elites slot instead of HS. FW should do something to make this Deredeo variant better.

 

I dont know about you but shooting at TEQ with 4 ap2 Plasma Shots without gets hot at 36" seems a bit better than waiting for them to be within 24" to shoot. Also, the option for an Ap 2 5" Blast at the same range is also pretty nice.

 

If you're not getting rends with your Kheres, then they're still getting 2+ saves which the Hellfire Negates.

[coloroutofspace]

 

 

 

On the topic of Hellfire Deredeo - can someone tell me, how is it any better than a Kheres Mortis Contemptor?

Its not, really. Its meant as a TEQ Killer. The Autocannons, however, are better than a Kheres due to 4 S8 Sunder Shots at 48" vs 12 S6 Rending shots at 24"

 

The plasma not having Gets Hot! and 4 shots is very nice though!

 

 

I know, but still it seems to me that a Kheres Mortis will perform better than Hellfire Deredeo in all roles and it takes an Elites slot instead of HS. FW should do something to make this Deredeo variant better.

 

I dont know about you but shooting at TEQ with 4 ap2 Plasma Shots without gets hot at 36" seems a bit better than waiting for them to be within 24" to shoot. Also, the option for an Ap 2 5" Blast at the same range is also pretty nice.

 

If you're not getting rends with your Kheres, then they're still getting 2+ saves which the Hellfire Negates.

 

Maybe slightly better :) still, dual-Kheres Contemptor looks meaner :) someone will probably do mathammer soon, but for now I think this Dodo isn't worth the HS slot it takes. Unlike the autocannon variant though.

[depthcharge12]

Having been at the end of one of the plasma variants, I can confirm its deadliness. The large blast just eats through any infantry you have.

 

Saying the Kheres is better doesn't quite substantiate the argument to me. It's like saying a charnabal sabre is better than a power fist because once and awhile you can get a rend with +1 initiative. The power fist does well all the time and is reliable.

 

You can still turn the plasma variant into skydive mode with the four shots and still have a good chance of taking a flyer out, not to mention the +1 to the damage table since the kheres can only glance a flyer to death or try to get an immobilized.

 

Not to say the kheres is bad, far from it, but you'll make your points back more quickly with the Deredeo if it doesn't get nuked.

[Jolemai]

Don't forget, you've also got the missile launcher potentially engaging a different target. That's huge.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Why do people get this idea that the HS slots are overloaded?

[infyrana]

Why do people get this idea that the HS slots are overloaded?

Because two sicarans and a deredeo later, I have no spare slots for this, even running the reaping. When they put some of the awesome tanks into squadrons, it'll help (see sicaran).

[Jolemai]

Wouldn't that be considered overpowered?