Aethernitas Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I give up. I guess our fruitless argument a good example why the ordnance snapfiring counts as one of the worst written rules in the BRB.For the protocol: I agree that vehicles should be able to snapfire non-template ordnance weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4022217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Don't worry about it. The only reason I knew this reason is from playing Astra through the first months of 7th. It's also a side effect of facing Astra as often as I do.... The rules often aren't intuitive. This is how we learn. So now that we're past all the little details, who plans to field this? Who plans to buy it? (I'm on the fence myself.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4022313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Honestly, I'd hold off until the real rules are released. It would suck to purchase three on the basis of an email, then find out FW release the tank and don't allow GK to have it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4022519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 No experimental tag. These are the real rules... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4022522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Don't worry about it. The only reason I knew this reason is from playing Astra through the first months of 7th. It's also a side effect of facing Astra as often as I do.... The rules often aren't intuitive. This is how we learn. So now that we're past all the little details, who plans to field this? Who plans to buy it? (I'm on the fence myself.) I was able to sell off a few unwanted models on ebay - enough to pay for two of these Tanks. I just placed an order, hopefully I won't be waiting too long after the 1st:-) Normally I'd just throw money at FW however I'm still reeling from the cost of my recent Italian city hopping holiday :'( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4022552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 No experimental tag. These are the real rules... When they get printed in an actual book then, or when FW FAQ/tidy up the rule as the original email in this thread suggests they will. /shrug I'd just be hesitant to go out on a limb here. Now, if I win the lottery it's a different story! I'd buy two of everything, whether I could use it or not. And a Garage to store them all in. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4022575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I decided to email them myself also, and this is the response I received. " hi, Thank you for your email. The answers to your questions are as follows - 1. The GW Apocalyse rule book has this information, but is written for 6th edition 40k and is not current with the just released Eldar Codex. 2. We are currently awaiting clarification from our rules writers as to this question. Once we have an answer we will modify the PDF rules document with regards to this. If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us. Regards, Forge World If you have a query about your order, please call 0115 900 4995 within the UK 011 44 115 900 4995 from the US and Canada 00 44 115 900 4995 from much of Europe Our office hours are: 0930 – 1800 (GMT) Monday to Friday 0930 – 1700 (GMT) Saturday " The first question was asking which rulebook had the most up to date rules for my eldar revenant titan, so ignore that one. But the second part says they're not even sure if we can use them themselves lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4022884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Don't worry about it. The only reason I knew this reason is from playing Astra through the first months of 7th. It's also a side effect of facing Astra as often as I do.... The rules often aren't intuitive. This is how we learn. So now that we're past all the little details, who plans to field this? Who plans to buy it? (I'm on the fence myself.) I was able to sell off a few unwanted models on ebay - enough to pay for two of these Tanks. I just placed an order, hopefully I won't be waiting too long after the 1st:-) Normally I'd just throw money at FW however I'm still reeling from the cost of my recent Italian city hopping holiday :'( Let me ask you this though... do you see these being as valuable to Grey Knights as they would be to Ultramarines? (This could be a trick question!) Also, does this mean your Ultra's aren't getting this tank? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The ones I've bought are actually going to my Ultramarines. I'll be buying two additional tanks for my Grey Knights after my next payday. I've had a few more games with my GK over the past few weeks and they sorely lack decent methods of softening up targets before we get into assault. I actually see these being MORE valuable to Grey Knights. It gives us the ability to pop a few tanks, or damage units we might not otherwise engage until late game. Pair this with our great anti infantry and cc ability, and suddenly GK become a threat in every stage of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I'll probably skip these tanks... The problem is I don't see using them with my GK (perhaps Ultra but the Sicaran has been good to me). But for this army I see getting one of the new Knights (mentioned in the other thread). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I'm not sure what Imperial Knights add to GK to be honest. In CC they aren't much different to a Dreadknight, and aren't any quicker to get around. The guns, aside from the Thermal cannon that provides a strong anti tank/TEQ, aren't really complimentary to GK as we don't struggle to clear hordes and mobs thanks to our multiple str6/7 templates. In my shooting focused Ultra army, my Knight errant functions as a strong cc support element as my army advances - usually I send him off to chase units around the mid point of the game. I will say however, that the new Knight with the giant Fist looks brilliant! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Knights are super-DKs, and should used as such. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Knights are super-DKs, and should used as such. If that's how you see and that works for you thats fine. Use Imperial Knights with GK because they look cool and/or you like their rules but don't try to rationalize Imperial Knights in a Grey Knight Strikeforce by fabricating parallels that are nothing more that wishful thinking or the overemphasis that both are called "Knights". Fluffwise a Knight in a NSF is pure nonsense and even in a fully ground based GK army a Knight is... far-fetched to put it mildly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VVolf Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 You could always use the 'Inquisitorial requisition' card to justify it. Inquisitor sits on the ship and sends his own troops or even pilots it himself. Practically anything Imperial can be justified that way - 'I like you mr freeblade... you should work for me *waves inquisitorial seal*'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You could always use the 'Inquisitorial requisition' card to justify it. Inquisitor sits on the ship and sends his own troops or even pilots it himself. Practically anything Imperial can be justified that way - 'I like you mr freeblade... you should work for me *waves inquisitorial seal*'. Thats one of the scenarios I covered with "far-fetched". Sure a Inquisitor Lord with enough influence can requisition pretty much anything - even a Imperial Knight, though I'm sure that a feudal Knight household is one of the entities thats very hard to deal with and requisition even for a Inquisitor. That doesn't make it's inclusion any less absurd especialy when we are talking a pure GK force in a NSF detachment. Just because it can happen and it maybe even happens once in a thousand times it's still not authentic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I'd say that the Imperial Knight "Pale Reckoning" would be a perfect ally to a GK army, only briefly mentioned in GW-lore for slaying the Daemon Prince Kor'talor no other details appear to be available. Gives you a free hand to paint the Knight in GK complimentary colours and a back story of "They both hate Daemons and are fighting together for that reason". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 But no one else knows of the existence of Daemons. And if they do, the Inquisition usually mind wipes them, if they don't execute them. GW lore. LoL. Just use whatever you think looks cool, and give you fun to when using it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 But no one else knows of the existence of Daemons. And if they do, the Inquisition usually mind wipes them, if they don't execute them. GW lore. LoL. Just use whatever you think looks cool, and give you fun to when using it! I just got a visual of an Inquisitor standing at the feet of an Imperial Knight shouting up to the pilot "Errm, excuse me, would you mind coming down here I just want to mind-wipe you." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4023993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Knights are super-DKs, and should used as such. If that's how you see and that works for you thats fine. Use Imperial Knights with GK because they look cool and/or you like their rules but don't try to rationalize Imperial Knights in a Grey Knight Strikeforce by fabricating parallels that are nothing more that wishful thinking or the overemphasis that both are called "Knights". Fluffwise a Knight in a NSF is pure nonsense and even in a fully ground based GK army a Knight is... far-fetched to put it mildly. Not sure where your antipathy comes from, but I'll restate my point. DKs fulfill a "Shock and Awe" role in our lists, drawing attention, kicking butt, taking names, etc.. An Imperial Knight does that as well, only more so, with a bigger footprint (pun intended). A Knight or two in your army will pull attention off your DKs, your DKs will still pull attention off your GKTs. All in all, IKs are DKs+1. If your hang up is fluff, look no further than the forge moon of Demos, hanging in the sky over Titan, providing Chapter 666 with all of its wargear while also perhaps hosting the Psi-Titan Legion, it's Skitarii, and just maybe a Knightly house. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4024087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not sure where your antipathy comes from, but I'll restate my point. DKs fulfill a "Shock and Awe" role in our lists, drawing attention, kicking butt, taking names, etc.. An Imperial Knight does that as well, only more so, with a bigger footprint (pun intended). A Knight or two in your army will pull attention off your DKs, your DKs will still pull attention off your GKTs. All in all, IKs are DKs+1. If your hang up is fluff, look no further than the forge moon of Demos, hanging in the sky over Titan, providing Chapter 666 with all of its wargear while also perhaps hosting the Psi-Titan Legion, it's Skitarii, and just maybe a Knightly house. Perhaps, yes. Probably not. Ruleswise I realize the usefulness of Knights on the battlefield even if I dislike them with GKs (I do love me some juicy Knights with my Skitarii). They make a small army even smaller and provide the enemy with a vehicle to shoot. Instead of rendering their anti-tank weaponry useless you give them a juice target to try them on. Fluffwise I'll stick to my viewpoint that Imperial Knights have no business whatsoever with GKs. As mentioned above there may be the very rare instance where a Knight House bows to a mighty Inquisitor for large scale operations but they are just a crutch for GKs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4024306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I just don't feel Knights add anything to GK in terms of what they do on the table... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4024324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well, I have a fondness for my great big silver Knights assisting my small and medium size Knights. Works for me. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4024403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well, I have a fondness for my great big silver Knights assisting my small and medium size Knights. Works for me. And probably looks pretty cool. Especially as it takes away from our not-exactly-great NDK models :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4024425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well, I have a fondness for my great big silver Knights assisting my small and medium size Knights. Works for me. And probably looks pretty cool. Especially as it takes away from our not-exactly-great NDK models :P NDKs only look bad if no effort was put into giving them more dynamic poses. Just standing there lock-kneed makes any model look bad. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4024651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 NDKs only look bad if no effort was put into giving them more dynamic poses. Just standing there lock-kneed makes any model look bad. I always make the extra effort to convert the baby-carrier part so that it actually looks like the pilot is protected in there but the dynamic pose sure goes a long way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306611-new-toys/page/5/#findComment-4024667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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