Fighting Eldar: Challenge Accepted

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Getting back on topic, what Allies should we be looking at for dealing with Eldar?

[Zembar]

Getting back on topic, what Allies should we be looking at for dealing with Eldar?

 

 Eldar? ;)

[SyNidus]

Eldar would be great allies. If I were to go that route, I'd take the aspect host formation with 3 squads of swooping hawks. Use them to deal with the Eldar mobility, which really is the main thing you need because we can deal with everything else quit easily. The only problem I've faced with Eldar is having to find a way to corner them in trap them so that we can get into combat to kill his transports. Everything else is easy. But, board rules.

 

Of the allies we can discuss, I think assassins are amazing at this, especially the Culexus. We can, if we're smart, use him to create an area of denial to limit a their space to move in.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Eldar?

Can't discuss xenos or traitor alliances on this forum. Sorry. Board rules.

So, our options boil down to;

- Imperial Guard: Lots of dudes, great cheap tanks, Hydras, Vendettas, Bullgryns+Draigo is fairly amusing (they go to S7 under 'Hammerhand' so they can punch tanks to death).

- Knight-Titans: Already canvassed a bit earlier, but AA and long-range anti-everything firepower on a tough platform that is completely self-sufficient is very handy

- Marines: Scouts planting teleport homers deep in enemy lines for that delicious Turn 1 alpha strike with 'Rites', access to their extensive vehicle roster, Centurions+Draigo...

- BA: Mostly for trolling Interceptor armies with the Angel Wing on a Librarian, and empty drop pods for Purifiers to ride in

- DA: Terminator Librarian carrying a powerfield generator, stacking with 'Sanctuary' for 3+ invul on DK's...lolololololol...oh and Ravenwing Scout teleport homers deep while being actually a threat (unlike Scouts)

- SW: Divination Rune Priests, Long Fangs for lascannon spam on the cheap, TWC complimenting DK's very well, empty drop pods for Purifiers

- Skitarii: Onagers are pretty hilarious for AA coverage and general fire support, caliver spam on Rangers jumping out of Ravens on top of key enemy units

- Assassins: See how the new rules shake out, Culexus has obvious synergy though and is the magic bullet for Eldar

[Prot]

I still like the assassin idea simply because it might be the last disruptive to my overall play style. However, that being said, it might be the least effective because I anticipate most lists will be loading up on speed. Those bikes are just ridiculous. The Aspects with the formation look fantastic too... it's more than just the obvious Wraithknight.

 

It makes me wonder how much of this is 'countered' in the rumoured Space Marine codex? (I know it's just a rumour but I keep thinking of how Necrons got bulleted by Eldar so logically....).

 

I have a few games scheduled this week. I hope one is against Eldar (potentially Friday).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The Culexus is going to absorb insane amounts of firepower and he's the death of their psykers. He also rips jetbikes apart fairly well. And if they run away, corral them with DK's. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Can't discuss xenos or traitor alliances on this forum. Sorry. Board rules.

 

Still don't agree with this silly restriction, but at least we have the largest available pool of allies in our 'faction'. ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Heresy is punishable by death. Especially fraternising with xenos ;)

 

Except that one time we cleansed a Craftworld of Daemons, then handed over the keys when we were done. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Or when Alaric teamed up with a Striking Scorpion. ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Or when Alaric teamed up with a Striking Scorpion.

But it's okay, because he betrayed the filthy xenos in the end.

[Gentlemanloser]

Exactly like we would after we won the battle of course!

 

Along with executing our IG allies and mind wiping our SM allies.

 

;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Exactly. But see, our Imperial allies are naive enough to assume they can survive contact with the warp without consequence. 

 

On a related note, Red Hunters (or as I like to think of them, 'what Exorcists should've been') are legit. Adamantium Will fits the theme and is mildly useful. Plus the Protocols are a swiss army knife of buffs. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm thinking a Grand master or brother captain with the soul glaive may be a good way to hurt Wraithknights, with rerolls on to hit and to wound for one warp charge plus force, if he gets hammerhand so only 5's, which with rerolls should hopefully be a couple.
Does require a justicar/ect to absorb challenges though.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm thinking a Grand master or brother captain with the soul glaive may be a good way to hurt Wraithknights, with rerolls on to hit and to wound for one warp charge plus force, if he gets hammerhand so only 5's, which with rerolls should hopefully be a couple.

Does require a justicar/ect to absorb challenges though.

 

Not really. It Instant-Deaths you at I5, and you have poor odds of even causing a single wound to it. Meanwhile, you only need to fail one 4+ invul and you're dead. Might as well take a hammer, assuming you survive it's attacks you will quite reliably wound it (assuming 'Hammerhand' and 'Force' are on). 

 

Something that after watching Wraithknights in action I've considered, is we may see the D-sword+shield combo more often than the dual cannons. The WK is a Jump GC, which means it has the speed to get into melee quickly unaided. It's also a great target for 'Invisibility' and 'Fortune', and even without those buffs it's very difficult to slay at range (T8, 3+ armour, 5+ invul, 5+ FNP). It's a great assault unit, and will probably kill more in melee than at range anyway (at least IMO). 

[Everon]

Why would a gm not wound or possibly kill? Cast force, strike at same time get hammer hand and you reroll all hits and wounds. And with a higher WS wk actually has a harder time hitting the gm. Yes one failed invul and he's done, but he was only meant for that one occasion any ways, yeah?

 

And if he fails to kill, rest of the squad is hitting as well since d is only said model

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Why would a gm not wound or possibly kill? Cast force, strike at same time get hammer hand and you reroll all hits and wounds. And with a higher WS wk actually has a harder time hitting the gm. Yes one failed invul and he's done, but he was only meant for that one occasion any ways, yeah?

 

S5-6 only wounds on 6's, S7 wounds on 5's. So, in a best case scenario, the Soul Glaive still only wounds on a 5+. Which is worse than a nemesis hammer with or without 'Hammerhand' (4+ without 'Hammerhand', 2+ with it). Hammer is just better dude, in every scenario with a WK. WK only needs to land enough hits to break your 4+ invul, on average dice it one-shots you (causes 2 wounds, you fail one 4+ invul, dead). 

And if he fails to kill, rest of the squad is hitting as well since d is only said model 

 

Yeah and failing miserably. Only the squad hammer is going to do anything. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The hammer goes after the wraithknight, with the glaive you still have a shot of a mutual kill if it does kill you. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The hammer goes after the wraithknight, with the glaive you still have a shot of a mutual kill if it does kill you. 

 

You're wounding on 5's with 'Hammerhand', and you only cause D3 wounds per unsaved, so on average dice you don't even kill it. It's a very poor trade of your Librarian or Grand Master. I'd avoid WK with your characters, it's very good at murdering them. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

True, but at the moment it's good at killing pretty much everything we have, so that's hardly a major mark against the that isn't shared by all our other options.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

True, but at the moment it's good at killing pretty much everything we have, so that's hardly a major mark against the that isn't shared by all our other options.

 

I disagree. Yeah, it brutally murders whatever we send against it, which is why you probably need to multi-charge it. I think Terminators offer the best solution, on average dice the hammer survives (remember to place him at the back of the squad for that reason) and you should have 'Force' and 'Prescience' out as well. I think characters is just a waste against the WK, it's too fast, hard-hitting (even without the D-sword it insta-gibs everyone except Draigo) and resiliant. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Out of interest, would an allied drop pod with locator beacons that came down on turn one guide grey knight untis deepstriking in? If so I'm thinking a 9 strong tactical squad with combi melta/power fist veteran searg, melta gun, level two librarian with biomancy and MC plasma pistol in pod and a level 3 librarian with telepahty in a terminator squad with psycannon, hammer, helberds ect then deep striked along with them.
Hopefulyl the Salamanders librarian would get enfeeble, allowing even bolters and stormbolters to hurt it, if not, hopefully Psychic shriek and the shooting should do enough wounds to it to make it think about moving, hopefully into clear sight of the rest of the armies guns?
 

[angrom]

The locator beacon have to be on the table at the beginning of the turn to work

So you won't be able to use his effect for your other units in the same turn.

This is a really common mistake that a lot of Marines player do.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Ahh sorry. That does make it almost a redundent option, as a prod pod is quite easy to destroy (especially now with eldar S6 Spam, hull points are ridiculous) and so the chances of a drop pod being in long enough for it to actually survive is unlikely. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Ahh sorry. That does make it almost a redundent option, as a prod pod is quite easy to destroy (especially now with eldar S6 Spam, hull points are ridiculous) and so the chances of a drop pod being in long enough for it to actually survive is unlikely. 

 

Yeah, its one of the most retarded aspects of how teleport and locator beacons work. GW hates synergy in Imperial armies, so they remove fun wherever they can. 

 

It's why Scouts and Ravenwing are such great homer caddies. They can both quickly get close to enemy lines before your roll for Reserves. 

[Aethernitas]

I think characters is just a waste against the WK, it's too fast, hard-hitting (even without the D-sword it insta-gibs everyone except Draigo) and resiliant. 

 

To be fair - all ICs have their 2+ LoS! against any WK attack except the stomp-six and characters normally hit the WK on 3s and have more attacks to profit from that. I don't say it's ideal but it's not like you have to keep your characters away from the WK at all costs because it would auto-murder it. Much more crucial than a character are the weapon choices you make for your squads.