Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 To be fair - all ICs have their 2+ LoS! against any WK attack except the stomp-six and characters normally hit the WK on 3s and have more attacks to profit from that. I don't say it's ideal but it's not like you have to keep your characters away from the WK at all costs because it would auto-murder it. Much more crucial than a character are the weapon choices you make for your squads. I'm just saying our characters are very valuable (for psychic support in particular), and we should keep them away from stupid ID hits if we can. You may well hit a WK more times with a Grand Master (Libbys are only WS5 so it's only 4's, which with 2A is very eh), but unless he's packing a hammer you won't do much except scratch the paint. I know you can' gurantee your HQ's won't have to engage a WK, but I'd avoid it unless you have no alternative. The more I look at the meta and how it's shaping up, the more I feel we need to go to 2 hammers per 5. The risk of the 1 in 5 getting sniped by being slightly closer than a sword Termie or whatever is annoying and real. 2 also means that if they both live to swing in melee, you'll definitively win combat, even against multi-wound annoyances like TWC or Necron Wraiths. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4038406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Personally in general I think that the skyreaper formation from the new IK codex is our best option... granted at its cheapest it comes in at 1080 for 3 galents or 1215 using the errent but you get 3x TL str7 ap4 heavy 2 skyfire/interceptor weps that re-roll all failed penitration rolls and failed to wound vs FMC. Personally I'd use the errent as you get the thermal cannon in addition to a melee D wep and the anti air to deal with their crimson hunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4038410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'm very smittened with a Warden and Errant heavy Skyreaper formation, although there would be no room left for my GKs. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4038493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Well I tend to play at 2500 so am looking at 2 errent with iccarus, melta gun and fist, 1 errent with melta gun and iccarus array. Along with a CAD of libby, 2x 5 termies and 3x dreadknights with HI,HP,PT,and hammer gives me 80 points for upgrades at 2500 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4038603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 You know, I'm not to interested in the meltagun upgrade. Yeah, the S8 AP1 is attactive, but I want the Stubber for pinging potential assault targets, not for accidentally increasing my charge range. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4038805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I don't even know if I would play the assault variant with GK. I'd be more inclined to look at the melta-blast personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4038923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Personally in general I think that the skyreaper formation from the new IK codex is our best option... granted at its cheapest it comes in at 1080 for 3 galents or 1215 using the errent but you get 3x TL str7 ap4 heavy 2 skyfire/interceptor weps that re-roll all failed penitration rolls and failed to wound vs FMC. Personally I'd use the errent as you get the thermal cannon in addition to a melee D wep and the anti air to deal with their crimson hunters. Yeah but that's playing Knight-Titans, not GK. You'll have barely any points leftover for us at that point. I keep looking at the Firestorm Redoubt as a potential answer. It's about 250pts all up (Comms Array, Magos Machine Spirit). You get essentially an immobile Land Raider with a lot of fire points, 4x S9 AP2 shots at BS3 with Skyfire+Interceptor, and re-rolls to Reserves. It'll blow most Flyers out of the sky unless they Jink, and it requires serious anti-tank attention to kill. Deployed aggressively forward from our DZ, I'm even considering quad psycannon Purgators to man it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4039190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Where are the rules for it? Something like that sounds like it could be helpful in all my armies, grey knights especially. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4039355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Stronghold assault Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4039641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 On further reflection, I'm finding IG a really strong Ally choice. Not just in this matchup, but in general. Firestorm is nice and compact, but it is a little inefficient when it comes to shooting. The big things I'm looking at are cheap infantry blobs and Sabre platforms. Combined with a pair of Aegis Lines (one of which with a Comms Array), you can have a bunch of twin-linked autocannons and/or lascannon ready to chew up the field (who can take Orders as well). Still tinkering with that option though, not quite at the point of buying it yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4040872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Well 2 fearless conscript blobs is fairly cheap. And then throw in knight commander pask. You get the blobs and the long range firepower ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4041046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Yeah Conscripts with Priests thrown in to keep them in line look hilarious as tarpits. Especially with Prayers. Sabres look like the ideal solution to our long-range firepower and AA needs though. 50pts apiece for a twin-linked lascannon that can choose to Interceptor+Skyfire is pretty hilarious. T7, 3+ armour (4+ cover too because you typically take Aegis Lines with IG anyway) means they're annoying to kill off as well. They can even take Orders, amusingly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4041764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Ugh, I just can't ally with IG. I face them too often.... it would be like... having a romantic relationship with someone who used to pick on you in school.... okay that's a weird comparison. But I just can't do it. I am still awaiting the Warden! I am so pumped to try it. Still not sure how it will be painted/ constructed but that Gatling gun is really attractive to me. I imagine magnetizing the top carapace on with the AA mount, and while I'm at it... I LOVE the sound/look of hurling with the gauntlet but it also slows us down to initiative 1 ! (I just read my codex and finally confirmed it.) So that's probably how it's going to go down... we'll see. Nothing is final til I glue it together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4042435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Thus you take a gallant. Strike at initiative with the sword hurl with the fist. Cheapest knight of them all, even with the missle launcher put on top for 3 str 8 ap3 shots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4042485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Legion of the Damned. DS and open fire with cover ignoring Melta, Plasma, and Bolter goodness. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4042735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Legion of the Damned are hilarious but still worse than Sternguard in a lot of ways. Overcosted is one issue, althought I do like native DS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4043062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 And 3++ save, Slow and Purposeful, accurate(ish) DS. SJ Edit: I'm actually starting to think LotD are the served souls of the Thousand Sons, post-Rubric. It makes sense for them to occasionally help out their loyalist brothers, aka the Grey Knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4043080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 And 3++ save, Slow and Purposeful, accurate(ish) DS. SJ Edit: I'm actually starting to think LotD are the served souls of the Thousand Sons, post-Rubric. It makes sense for them to occasionally help out their loyalist brothers, aka the Grey Knights. Nah they're specifically stated to be the spiritual remnants of the Fire Hawks Chapter. Thousand Sons have nothing to do with Grey Knights. Completely different ethos, and they openly consorted with daemonic entities for knowledge and power. I think it is likely that at least one Thousand Son was in the original 8 Grand Masters, but our training, wargear, psychic mastery...was all from either Emps or Malcador. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4043134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 And 3++ save, Slow and Purposeful, accurate(ish) DS. SJ Edit: I'm actually starting to think LotD are the served souls of the Thousand Sons, post-Rubric. It makes sense for them to occasionally help out their loyalist brothers, aka the Grey Knights. Nah they're specifically stated to be the spiritual remnants of the Fire Hawks Chapter. Thousand Sons have nothing to do with Grey Knights. Completely different ethos, and they openly consorted with daemonic entities for knowledge and power. I think it is likely that at least one Thousand Son was in the original 8 Grand Masters, but our training, wargear, psychic mastery...was all from either Emps or Malcador. Actually, they were rumored to be Fire Hawks, but the current fluff seems to make that not work out as well as the older fluff did. As to GK and TS, each of the GK schools of psychic mastery matches the pre-Heresy TS schools of psychic mastery, particularly the focus on fire. NDKs are moved via the same method the pH TS moved robots and Titans. And then there is the fact that both recruit(ed) only Psykers, they both practice sorcery, and the are brothers via both being Astartes. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4043293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 As to GK and TS, each of the GK schools of psychic mastery matches the pre-Heresy TS schools of psychic mastery, particularly the focus on fire. NDKs are moved via the same method the pH TS moved robots and Titans. And then there is the fact that both recruit(ed) only Psykers, they both practice sorcery, and the are brothers via both being Astartes. Got some sources for me or can you elaborate on what schools you are talking about? I guess you mean the five cults (Corvidae, Raptora etc.) that are pretty much the same as the basic psychic disciplines in the BRB (except for daemonology) but I'm not sure which GK-specific schools they are fitting. For example the Pavoni practiced basically biomancy which no GK has access to and daemonology which is more or less the GKs own discipline and TS never used that one. AFAIK the NDK is piloted the same way Dreadnoughts or even Power Armour is moved - via synaptic implants and direct neural interface. Did the TS have some special way of moving robots and titans apart from sometimes forcing movement by telekInesis? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4043520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I'm just getting nostalgic with older fluff. Guess that's my queue to leave. It's been a pleasure. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4043528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Actually, they were rumored to be Fire Hawks, but the current fluff seems to make that not work out as well as the older fluff did. It's all but confirmed dude. Whole Chapter disappeared into the warp, LotD look like spooky versions, have the same iconography etc. As to GK and TS, each of the GK schools of psychic mastery matches the pre-Heresy TS schools of psychic mastery, particularly the focus on fire. NDKs are moved via the same method the pH TS moved robots and Titans. And then there is the fact that both recruit(ed) only Psykers, they both practice sorcery, and the are brothers via both being Astartes. Er well I think you're drawing the wrong connection. Yes, the Thousand Sons had different schools, but that's a reflection of the innate nature of the warp (ie why the Psychic Discplines are universal). GK draw upon the same powers, but in vastly different ways (ie Sanctic is purified sorcery), and their understanding is deeper than the Thousand Sons ever achieved (ie because GK fight daemons and are exclusively a psychic Chapter, with knowledge straight from the Emperor built into their training, wargear and psychic mastery). Teleportation is achieved via warp jump packs with GK, not with raw psychic might (which is how Thousand Sons did it). So, a fusion of technology and sorcery, which is kinda the whole ethos of Grey Knights (they wrap immensely potent wizards inside highly advanced battle armour with guns etc). The Thousand Sons didn't solely recruit psykers, they spontaneously developed their abilities (ie the gene-seed changed them, some fatally so). Grey Knights meanwhile must all by psykers to begin with, and are of an order of purity and power far beyond a conventional Astartes. Yes, they're still Space Marines and listed as a Chapter, but a Grey Knight is much more powerful and rare as a result. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4045751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The more I look at the meta and how it's shaping up, the more I feel we need to go to 2 hammers per 5. The risk of the 1 in 5 getting sniped by being slightly closer than a sword Termie or whatever is annoying and real. 2 also means that if they both live to swing in melee, you'll definitively win combat, even against multi-wound annoyances like TWC or Necron Wraiths. I always run 3 per 10. But then, I'm crazy and usually run 10 man Terminator squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4050042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I run 10man squads as well, with is why I recommend X of something per 5 models. Makes things easier when I combat squad them. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4050114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I always run 3 per 10. But then, I'm crazy and usually run 10 man Terminator squads. I run 10man squads as well, with is why I recommend X of something per 5 models. Makes things easier when I combat squad them. I for once think the 5man squads superior as they manage to actually stay in combat during the opponents turn which for me is a success. I'm interested in your reasoning. Why run 10man over 5man squads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306618-fighting-eldar-challenge-accepted/page/4/#findComment-4050156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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