Night Lords Don't Worship But Still Chaos?

[Ultramarine vet]

 

 

 

 

What the..? The Imperium are the bad guys!

 

Chaos represents freedom, the Imperium is just arbitrary repressive inhibition.

The only freedom the Imperium provides is the freedom to die for the Emperor. The space marines kill entire planets to ensure dissident minorities are extinguished. Sometimes for the sake of killing one man or woman. They support euthanasia to keep populations "pure". They shore up the most repressive regime in the history of mankind. They are for all intents and purposes Nazi stormtroopers. The only difference is the name of the regime they serve, and the fact that they are even less human than the Nazis were.

Chaos are the good guys.

 

Sorry? Was that a serious post?

Its ironic, but its grim-dark. Nobody is "good". Chaos is Chaos. Entropy, devastation, freedom. Space Marines/Imperium are indeed fascists, hence Nazis. No race in the game is "good guys". If you have to ask who is more evil- Chaos or Imperium, just consider them different sides of the same coin.

For you guys that are calling the Imperium Nazi's, you mean the Inquisition and the Grey Knights right? They fit your description. Space marines, Imperial Guard, etc, don't fit what you're saying. I can even reference because Ultramarine Captain Ventris almost killed Inquisitor Kryptman for destroying a planet. How is that Nazi like? I have no love for the Inquisition and I would prefer chaos killed them all. To the warp with them.

 

Uriel Ventris being the model space marine? Right. Ventris is said over and over again to have a disregard for the codex and standard procedures. He is hardly an example of normal Imperial attitudes

 

The Imperium is racist, xenophobic, obsessed with the purity of the human race, genocidal etc etc.

Whats his disregard for the codex have to do with anything? The point is that he cares about humanity. And he has broken the codex a few times, but he saved planets and millions of people in the process. Your point is invalid.

[Sheesh Mode]

Chaos worship or not, they must be put down equally!

On a serious note, they are one of the most evil traitor legions. I believe they compete with Emperor's Children, AKA noisemarines, as far as evil and cruelty. I would assume they are chaos worshiping pyschos but then again, I haven't read much on them in particular. To me, they are just as chaotic if not worse than a lot of their counterparts.

Emperor's Children are not just Noise Marines, and strictly speaking, not evil. They follow their own desires and cross moral boundaries that others couldn't imagine going near.

Night Lords vary from warband to warband. Some are more renegades, others have found Chaos. All of them use terror as a means to demoralize enemies but are not necessarily evil.

The Imperium will destroy whole species, invade worlds and force them to follow a corpse as a god because some desk jockies deem it to be the truth. Now who's evil

*sighs*

They are all evil. A room full of psychopaths does not make any of them any less crazy. Relativity be damned, there are certain moral absolutes for behavior and actions.

What the..? The Imperium are the bad guys!

Chaos represents freedom, the Imperium is just arbitrary repressive inhibition.

The only freedom the Imperium provides is the freedom to die for the Emperor. The space marines kill entire planets to ensure dissident minorities are extinguished. Sometimes for the sake of killing one man or woman. They support euthanasia to keep populations "pure". They shore up the most repressive regime in the history of mankind. They are for all intents and purposes Nazi stormtroopers. The only difference is the name of the regime they serve, and the fact that they are even less human than the Nazis were.

Chaos are the good guys.

Sorry? Was that a serious post?

Its ironic, but its grim-dark. Nobody is "good". Chaos is Chaos. Entropy, devastation, freedom. Space Marines/Imperium are indeed fascists, hence Nazis. No race in the game is "good guys". If you have to ask who is more evil- Chaos or Imperium, just consider them different sides of the same coin.

For you guys that are calling the Imperium Nazi's, you mean the Inquisition and the Grey Knights right? They fit your description. Space marines, Imperial Guard, etc, don't fit what you're saying. I can even reference because Ultramarine Captain Ventris almost killed Inquisitor Kryptman for destroying a planet. How is that Nazi like? I have no love for the Inquisition and I would prefer chaos killed them all. To the warp with them.

No, "Spacenazi" is a pretty fitting description for the Imperium as a whole. From the architecture and weaponry to the culture and philosophies, the Imperium is hard-core space nazi. Look at the Black Templars for example. Or the Sisters of Battle. How about Commissars or Colonel Chenkov? There's the Iron Hands, the Death Korps of Krieg, the Mortifactors, the Carcharodons, the Exorcists. The list is extensive.

But to keep things simple I suggest reading up on the history and records of the 3rd Reich for a better understanding of the regime, the party, and how 40k has been influenced by it.

[Iron Skull Mask]

The fluff names the imperium as the cruellest regime imaginable. Still it is probably preferrable as a human being to live your life there rather than on a daemon world ruled by CSM (in 99.999% of all imaginable scenarios).

I think everyone can agree that the 40k grim-dark setting as a whole is dystopian.

[Ultramarine vet]

 

 

Chaos worship or not, they must be put down equally!

On a serious note, they are one of the most evil traitor legions. I believe they compete with Emperor's Children, AKA noisemarines, as far as evil and cruelty. I would assume they are chaos worshiping pyschos but then again, I haven't read much on them in particular. To me, they are just as chaotic if not worse than a lot of their counterparts.

 

Emperor's Children are not just Noise Marines, and strictly speaking, not evil. They follow their own desires and cross moral boundaries that others couldn't imagine going near.

Night Lords vary from warband to warband. Some are more renegades, others have found Chaos. All of them use terror as a means to demoralize enemies but are not necessarily evil.

The Imperium will destroy whole species, invade worlds and force them to follow a corpse as a god because some desk jockies deem it to be the truth. Now who's evil ;)

 

*sighs*

 

They are all evil. A room full of psychopaths does not make any of them any less crazy. Relativity be damned, there are certain moral absolutes for behavior and actions. 

 

 

 

 

What the..? The Imperium are the bad guys!

 

Chaos represents freedom, the Imperium is just arbitrary repressive inhibition.

The only freedom the Imperium provides is the freedom to die for the Emperor. The space marines kill entire planets to ensure dissident minorities are extinguished. Sometimes for the sake of killing one man or woman. They support euthanasia to keep populations "pure". They shore up the most repressive regime in the history of mankind. They are for all intents and purposes Nazi stormtroopers. The only difference is the name of the regime they serve, and the fact that they are even less human than the Nazis were.

Chaos are the good guys.

 

Sorry? Was that a serious post?

Its ironic, but its grim-dark. Nobody is "good". Chaos is Chaos. Entropy, devastation, freedom. Space Marines/Imperium are indeed fascists, hence Nazis. No race in the game is "good guys". If you have to ask who is more evil- Chaos or Imperium, just consider them different sides of the same coin.

For you guys that are calling the Imperium Nazi's, you mean the Inquisition and the Grey Knights right? They fit your description. Space marines, Imperial Guard, etc, don't fit what you're saying. I can even reference because Ultramarine Captain Ventris almost killed Inquisitor Kryptman for destroying a planet. How is that Nazi like? I have no love for the Inquisition and I would prefer chaos killed them all. To the warp with them.

 

No, "Spacenazi" is a pretty fitting description for the Imperium as a whole. From the architecture and weaponry to the culture and philosophies, the Imperium is hard-core space nazi. Look at the Black Templars for example. Or the Sisters of Battle. How about Commissars or Colonel Chenkov? There's the Iron Hands, the Death Korps of Krieg, the Mortifactors, the Carcharodons, the Exorcists. The list is extensive.

 

But to keep things simple I suggest reading up on the history and records of the 3rd Reich for a better understanding of the regime, the party, and how 40k has been influenced by it.

 

Mortifactors? They are always mysterious and drowning in a river of their own sorrow, not "spacenazi" material. Iron Hands are pouting and very to themselves since the heresy. Not sure what any of this has to do with "spacenazi's." Only thing that went through my head were commisars, who are pieces of crap. And Colonel Chenkov is ONE man, not the entire Imperium. The Imperium is xenophohic with good reason, xenos usually aren't nice. So the Imperium isn't gonna say "Hi, lets go have dinner and be friends!" The Imperium is doing what is necessary to survive in a galaxy of war. What do you expect??

[MaliGn]

Not a great deal of freedom to do anything else.

[Paradigm]

I was completely serious in the above post. There isn't a shred of fluff that says otherwise either. There are individuals who are good on both sides, even some good factions, however the Imperium isn't anyone's shining example. It is a corrupt and brutal regime, it offers nothing to its people, it sacrifices more people every day to ensure the astronomican can be maintained than many chaos cults sacrifice in their entire existence. 365Million to date, not including leap years.

 

The Iron hands are one of the most brutal space marine factions to ever exist. At Contqual they killed 1 third of a populace who viewed them as liberators simply to demonstrate the price of weakness. The Mortifactors are a death cult, and Ultramarine offspring who have more in common with the Night Lords perhaps than their genefathers. The entire Imperial creed is a lie that simply exists to help control the populace. It was created by the Word Bearers when they were still loyal. Lets talk about the Marines Malevolent, Flesh Tearers, Charcharadons Astra, Imperial Fists, Minotaurs, Fire Hawks, Silver Skulls, Dark Angels, or any space marine chapter in existence. They all are brutal enforcers of an evil oppressive regime, who will kill to ensure it's proliferation. The only real exceptions to this rule are the Space Wolves and the Salamanders. I'm sure there are others, but they are exceptions, not the rule. The argument that the Imperium is only trying to prevent Xenos from dominating the universe is also simply not the case, as there are free human civilizations in existence now, as of the current time frame, and an entire galaxy of independents 10,000 years ago. Some joined the Imperium willingly, most were exterminated or dominated.

The best way to see it I suppose is to look at it from the standpoint of what would happen if an Imperial agent came to earth. We haven't paid our taxes in over a thousand years and don't worship the Emperor as a god. We haven't had a draft for guard regiments in historical memory, and haven't contributed so much as a single long island medium to the black ships. The entire planet would be exterminated just because of the worship problem. They'd see our gods and goddesses as facets of chaos and reduce the planet to ash. If that didn't stop them, they'd conscript the whole planet into guard regiments to make up the shortfall, and every single telephone psychic would be in a very uncomfortable situation.

If one of the "lost and the damned" showed up, he'd likely just think it was cool we weren't an Imperial, and do no worse than we've done to ourselves over the past few thousand years. Alas, our telephone psychics would still be uncomfortable.

It could be argued that Chaos are the bad guys, but at least they get rewarded for getting things done.

And back on the OP's topic, the Night Lords are the hardest of hard core. They are chaos marines to the bone, however, while the Black Legion uses chaos as a tool and enjoys it, the Night Lords tend to despise the tool at hand. Just like all chaos factions however, there isn't a "right way" to do Night Lords. We have seen all kinds in the fluff. From nearly "pure" to the deeply corrupted, monstrously inhuman marine.

[Carrack]

I was completely serious in the above post. There isn't a shred of fluff that says otherwise either. There are individuals who are good on both sides, even some good factions, however the Imperium isn't anyone's shining example. It is a corrupt and brutal regime, it offers nothing to its people, it sacrifices more people every day to ensure the astronomican can be maintained than many chaos cults sacrifice in their entire existence. 365Million to date, not including leap years

 

The best way to see it I suppose is to look at it from the standpoint of what would happen if an Imperial agent came to earth. We haven't paid our taxes in over a thousand years and don't worship the Emperor as a god. We haven't had a draft for guard regiments in historical memory, and haven't contributed so much as a single long island medium to the black ships. The entire planet would be exterminated just because of the worship problem. They'd see our gods and goddesses as facets of chaos and reduce the planet to ash. If that didn't stop them, they'd conscript the whole planet into guard regiments to make up the shortfall, and every single telephone psychic would be in a very uncomfortable situation.

 

If one of the "lost and the damned" showed up, he'd likely just think it was cool we weren't an Imperial, and do no worse than we've done to ourselves over the past few thousand years. Alas, our telephone psychics would still be uncomfortable.

 

It could be argued that Chaos are the bad guys, but at least they get rewarded for getting things done.

 

And back on the OP's topic, the Night Lords are the hardest of hard core. They are chaos marines to the bone, however, while the Black Legion uses chaos as a tool and enjoys it, the Night Lords tend to despise the tool at hand. Just like all chaos factions however, there isn't a "right way" to do Night Lords. We have seen all kinds in the fluff. From nearly "pure" to the deeply corrupted, monstrously inhuman marine.

I agree that both sides are evil as societies, and that you can find instances in the background of individual Imperaials being decent, even good. However, I haven't seen any instances of individual Chaos Marines being anything but evil, can you point me to that background, it might be interesting.

 

As far as what would happen if the Imperium made orbit over Las Vegas or what not, we might very well be doomed, but the Imperium does have a missionary organization designed to bring worlds such as ours into the Imperial fold, where we could look forward to life in the most brutal regime imaginable.

 

Now if Chaos came first, they may just conquer us or exploit us for their Long War in a similar fashion to the Imperium, but they too could depopulate the planet as well, sacrificing us all, or enslaving the population to take back to the eye. Either way Chaos, or Loyalist we will not be in for a fun time.

[Ultramarine vet]

I was completely serious in the above post. There isn't a shred of fluff that says otherwise either. There are individuals who are good on both sides, even some good factions, however the Imperium isn't anyone's shining example. It is a corrupt and brutal regime, it offers nothing to its people, it sacrifices more people every day to ensure the astronomican can be maintained than many chaos cults sacrifice in their entire existence. 365Million to date, not including leap years.

 

The Iron hands are one of the most brutal space marine factions to ever exist. At Contqual they killed 1 third of a populace who viewed them as liberators simply to demonstrate the price of weakness. The Mortifactors are a death cult, and Ultramarine offspring who have more in common with the Night Lords perhaps than their genefathers. The entire Imperial creed is a lie that simply exists to help control the populace. It was created by the Word Bearers when they were still loyal. Lets talk about the Marines Malevolent, Flesh Tearers, Charcharadons Astra, Imperial Fists, Minotaurs, Fire Hawks, Silver Skulls, Dark Angels, or any space marine chapter in existence. They all are brutal enforcers of an evil oppressive regime, who will kill to ensure it's proliferation. The only real exceptions to this rule are the Space Wolves and the Salamanders. I'm sure there are others, but they are exceptions, not the rule. The argument that the Imperium is only trying to prevent Xenos from dominating the universe is also simply not the case, as there are free human civilizations in existence now, as of the current time frame, and an entire galaxy of independents 10,000 years ago. Some joined the Imperium willingly, most were exterminated or dominated.

The best way to see it I suppose is to look at it from the standpoint of what would happen if an Imperial agent came to earth. We haven't paid our taxes in over a thousand years and don't worship the Emperor as a god. We haven't had a draft for guard regiments in historical memory, and haven't contributed so much as a single long island medium to the black ships. The entire planet would be exterminated just because of the worship problem. They'd see our gods and goddesses as facets of chaos and reduce the planet to ash. If that didn't stop them, they'd conscript the whole planet into guard regiments to make up the shortfall, and every single telephone psychic would be in a very uncomfortable situation.

If one of the "lost and the damned" showed up, he'd likely just think it was cool we weren't an Imperial, and do no worse than we've done to ourselves over the past few thousand years. Alas, our telephone psychics would still be uncomfortable.

It could be argued that Chaos are the bad guys, but at least they get rewarded for getting things done.

And back on the OP's topic, the Night Lords are the hardest of hard core. They are chaos marines to the bone, however, while the Black Legion uses chaos as a tool and enjoys it, the Night Lords tend to despise the tool at hand. Just like all chaos factions however, there isn't a "right way" to do Night Lords. We have seen all kinds in the fluff. From nearly "pure" to the deeply corrupted, monstrously inhuman marine.

 

Okay, fine. The Iron Hands are a bit hateful and vindictive. But there are plenty of chapters that will literally fight to the last man to preserve human life. Ultramarines, Salamanders, Genesis Chapter, Imperial Fists, etc. I can match your list with good chapters. You can't say the Imperium is like chaos. You can say Inquisition, sure. The Inquisition are a bunch a jerks, and THEY are no better than chaos. But the entire Imperium? I don't see it.

 

If an agent of the Imperium came here to Earth, they would first talk to us about the Emperor and convert us. They wouldn't kill us immediately.

 

I somewhat see what you're saying, but you can't generalize the entire Imperium as such. We are a bit corrupt just like every single other race.

 

If the Ultramarines or Salamanders, or Imperial Fists liberated this planet of an alien incursion and saved all of us, would you still think that? Think about it.

[bozo69pd]

Also, the xenos thing with imperium. All the nice wanna be friends aliens/mutants had been exterminated when they didn't want to acknowledge the emperor as the supreme being. Some of them like the orange orangutan aliens got turned into slaves. X-men totally woulda been murdered by the imperium. The only xenos and mutants that are still alive and free are the ones that were brutal and/or strong enough to fight. Those who still wanted their freedom went into the eye to take their chances allying/being neutral to chaos.

 

If you look at the effect of either faction on our planet its rough. I could work in a factory and hope my sons didn't get drafted to guard or I could ummm... be a plague farmer and hope my whole family didn't get sick and die. Even if they did though they might come back as zombies. WE ARE WORTHY! PRAISE NURGLE!

[Forté]

I have had to remove many comments in this discussion due to reference to real world war historical events. Part of the B&C rules asks that this is not done, especially with the reference that was used in this case.

 

Please feel free to pm me with any concerns this may cause and I will gladly explain my actions in private.

 

This is a good topic to explore but I ask that it continues without real world event references.

 

Thank you.

[Kol Saresk]

So. About those Night Lords.........

 

Lornak, going by your view of what constitutes a Chaos Space Marine(being in an organized group that is fully devoted to Chaos), very little actually fits into that. The Black Legion is organized, but it is not wholly embracing of Chaos. In fact, they have a very VIII Legion attitude in that Chaos is a tool, not an object of worship. In fact, the only faction I can think of that would fit into your definition would be the Word Bearers and that is if "organized" doesn't exclude infighting.

[GreyCrow]

From what I've read about the Night Lords, especially in the 3.5 Codex (magnificent book by the way compared to the one we have here :/ ), they aren't Chaos worshippers per se. They are more a renegade band of murderous psychopaths who like to scare their victims prior to the decapitating blow.

 

I don't think they are devoted to Chaos, but because they're renegade, Chaos powers are one of the only allies they can get. You know, "enemy of my enemy" etc. I would tend to say much like the Black Legion, who's hell bent (forgive the pun) on destroying the Imperium and so uses all the tools that Chaos gives to achieve that purpose. Compared to the Word Bearers, or the "cult" Legions (World Eaters, etc) who are devoted to gods specifically.

[Xenith]

From what I've read about the Night Lords, especially in the 3.5 Codex (magnificent book by the way compared to the one we have here :/ ), they aren't Chaos worshippers per se. They are more a renegade band of murderous psychopaths who like to scare their victims prior to the decapitating blow.

 

See here's the thing, what we have all been trying to get across.

 

Just because one source states that they don't really worship Chaos, or that some Night Lords dont worship, does not mean that no Night Lord worships Chaos.

 

It's a big universe. There are probably night lords that are more fanatical in their devotions to Chaos than some Word Bearers.

[Sheesh Mode]

I have had to remove many comments in this discussion due to reference to real world war historical events. Part of the B&C rules asks that this is not done, especially with the reference that was used in this case.

 

Please feel free to pm me with any concerns this may cause and I will gladly explain my actions in private.

 

This is a good topic to explore but I ask that it continues without real world event references.

 

Thank you.

 

Ah, yes. My apologies I was caught up in the debate. 

[Lay]

The concept of faith is overstated when it comes to Chaos. "Chaos worshippers" are just one type of Chaos servant.

 

For example, Ahriman and Be'lakor are incredibly powerful Champions who only follow their own agenda.

And then there's Scaevolla of the Black Legion (from the short story "Honour among Fiends"), who gets tired of his eternal service to the Gods but is pretty much trapped in his own immortality.

Not to mention Horus himself, who at the peak of his power, claimed that he had bound Chaos to his own will (from the HH artbooks).

 

In the end, Chaos is all about damnation. Whether its servants recognize it or even embrace it doesn't matter that much.

[GreyCrow]

 

From what I've read about the Night Lords, especially in the 3.5 Codex (magnificent book by the way compared to the one we have here :/ ), they aren't Chaos worshippers per se. They are more a renegade band of murderous psychopaths who like to scare their victims prior to the decapitating blow.

 

See here's the thing, what we have all been trying to get across.

 

Just because one source states that they don't really worship Chaos, or that some Night Lords dont worship, does not mean that no Night Lord worships Chaos.

 

It's a big universe. There are probably night lords that are more fanatical in their devotions to Chaos than some Word Bearers.

 

 

Well, obviously :) The sources talk about the personnality of the Legion as an entity, and definitely not say that each Night Lord is a carbon copy of the Legion stereotype, I completely agree with you there. We can look at it in terms of tendencies : Chaos Space Marines in Night Lords warbands tend to be more circumspect on average than say the Word Bearers or the Crimson Slaughters when it comes to their worship of Chaos, but it doesn't mean there can't be more variations amongst individual Chaos Space Marines.

 

The way I would see Night Lords "worship" (I see it more as a tribute or profound respect than a religious adoration) Chaos would be as the avatar of terror. After all, Chaos is so alien that it is fearsome, yet so familiar because it represents human traits that it is disturbing in its hyperbole. And witnessing it is definitely terrifying and disabling. Which is something the Night Lords would relate to I'm sure :)

[bozo69pd]

Well the god that is powered by fear of death is Nurgle, hence why he likes slow creeping disease. A quickie finish does nothing for him (that's all khorne).

[Scribe]

 

If an agent of the Imperium came here to Earth, they would first talk to us about the Emperor and convert us. They wouldn't kill us immediately.

 

I somewhat see what you're saying, but you can't generalize the entire Imperium as such. We are a bit corrupt just like every single other race.

 

If the Ultramarines or Salamanders, or Imperial Fists liberated this planet of an alien incursion and saved all of us, would you still think that? Think about it.

 

 

If we said 'no thanks, you can keep your Emperor' you better believe ever single legion/chapter would kill us.

[Ultramarine vet]

 

If an agent of the Imperium came here to Earth, they would first talk to us about the Emperor and convert us. They wouldn't kill us immediately.

I somewhat see what you're saying, but you can't generalize the entire Imperium as such. We are a bit corrupt just like every single other race.

If the Ultramarines or Salamanders, or Imperial Fists liberated this planet of an alien incursion and saved all of us, would you still think that? Think about it.

 

 

If we said 'no thanks, you can keep your Emperor' you better believe ever single legion/chapter would kill us.

And??

[Skallagoose]

All I'm going to say to this is that the creators of this game did so very intelligently. They, on the face, make the chaos forces seem to be the essence of evil in the universe; however, once you read some fluff and look at the comparative enemies of the chaos it becomes much more blurred on who the bad guys are. Are the bad guys the ones who look evil but fight for their own survival, or is it the ones to fight under a shinny eagle symbol but also butcher entire planets because one guy might have seen something we don't want anyone to know about? 

 

Also just a quick statement; Chaos is a word for Entropy. Entropy is disorder, or better put; a lack of order. Chaos, or Entropy, do not directly relate to 'Evil' or 'Bad'. People always fear what they don't understand and by definition entropy(chaos) is something you can't understand.

[Scribe]

 

 

If an agent of the Imperium came here to Earth, they would first talk to us about the Emperor and convert us. They wouldn't kill us immediately.

I somewhat see what you're saying, but you can't generalize the entire Imperium as such. We are a bit corrupt just like every single other race.

If the Ultramarines or Salamanders, or Imperial Fists liberated this planet of an alien incursion and saved all of us, would you still think that? Think about it.

 

If we said 'no thanks, you can keep your Emperor' you better believe ever single legion/chapter would kill us.

And??

 

 

And if we say yes, our young adults would be shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

 

Lets flip the switch now.

 

If CSM show up and say 'worship the dark gods' and we say no, we get killed.

 

If we say yes, our young adults would be shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

 

And??

 

The noble light you shine on the Imperium is false, only in Chaos can you be free. :D

[Carrack]

 

Also just a quick statement; Chaos is a word for Entropy. Entropy is disorder, or better put; a lack of order. Chaos, or Entropy, do not directly relate to 'Evil' or 'Bad'. People always fear what they don't understand and by definition entropy(chaos) is something you can't understand.

In the grim dark future, Chaos, in addition to disorder, also is the realm of daemons, the fuel of witchcraft, the temptor, the destroyer, the deceiver, and the infector. Chaos has destroyed empires, corrupted entire species, and continually seeks to bring ruin. Chaos is not merely an uncaring force, like a hurricane or a lightning strike, Chaos is evil in its most concentrated form.

[MaliGn]

 

 

 

If an agent of the Imperium came here to Earth, they would first talk to us about the Emperor and convert us. They wouldn't kill us immediately.

I somewhat see what you're saying, but you can't generalize the entire Imperium as such. We are a bit corrupt just like every single other race.

If the Ultramarines or Salamanders, or Imperial Fists liberated this planet of an alien incursion and saved all of us, would you still think that? Think about it.

 

 

If we said 'no thanks, you can keep your Emperor' you better believe ever single legion/chapter would kill us.

And??

 

And if we say yes, our young adults would be shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

 

Lets flip the switch now.

 

If CSM show up and say 'worship the dark gods' and we say no, we get killed.

 

If we say yes, our young adults would be shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

 

And??

 

The noble light you shine on the Imperium is false, only in Chaos can you be free. :D

Arguably even if they don't turn up at all our young adults are shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

 

Personally I don't buy into the idea of any of the chaos legions not being affected by chaos, or for that matter not being aligned with chaos. They manifest that alignment differently and have their unique takes on it.

 

Iron Warriors may well see daemonic mutations as undesirable and prefer bionic rather than daemonic limb replacements, this does not mean that they shun everything chaos has to offer.

 

In the same way Word Bearers might be inclined to convert populations go a new kind of worship rather than the imperial creed, rather than simply exterminating them, much as they were fond of slowly ensuring compliance during the great crusade.

 

Historically Night Lords weren't pious followers of the emperor, they were ruthless killers and butchers, having aligned with chaos this doesn't change, they don't hold dark masses or perform rituals, because they never did, they kill and butcher as they did before, this may; thanks to their alignment, cause mutation and other chaotic effects.

[Scribe]

If an agent of the Imperium came here to Earth, they would first talk to us about the Emperor and convert us. They wouldn't kill us immediately.

I somewhat see what you're saying, but you can't generalize the entire Imperium as such. We are a bit corrupt just like every single other race.

If the Ultramarines or Salamanders, or Imperial Fists liberated this planet of an alien incursion and saved all of us, would you still think that? Think about it.

If we said 'no thanks, you can keep your Emperor' you better believe ever single legion/chapter would kill us.

And??

And if we say yes, our young adults would be shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

Lets flip the switch now.

If CSM show up and say 'worship the dark gods' and we say no, we get killed.

If we say yes, our young adults would be shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

And??

The noble light you shine on the Imperium is false, only in Chaos can you be free.

Arguably even if they don't turn up at all our young adults are shipped off to fight wars, serve on ships, toil in factories, and grind our lives away.

All the surfer/hippy types around here living off my dime would make an argument that that isnt the case, but hey lets not split hairs. :p

[Xenith]

Also just a quick statement; Chaos is a word for Entropy. Entropy is disorder, or better put; a lack of order. Chaos, or Entropy, do not directly relate to 'Evil' or 'Bad'. People always fear what they don't understand and by definition entropy(chaos) is something you can't understand.

In the grim dark future, Chaos, in addition to disorder, also is the realm of daemons, the fuel of witchcraft, the temptor, the destroyer, the deceiver, and the infector. Chaos has destroyed empires, corrupted entire species, and continually seeks to bring ruin. Chaos is not merely an uncaring force, like a hurricane or a lightning strike, Chaos is evil in its most concentrated form.

You say that like the Imperium doesn't do all of those things