Servant of Dante Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I've been having problems with my friend's 3 grav-centurions with divination Tigurius. I like low model count armies with plenty of 2+ armor, so natural I need a reliable way to take these guys out. I'm not much of a strategist, I much prefer trowing ten sanguinary guard with a priest at things. Maybe Dante. And a chaplain. Any help would be appreciated. Also, this is my first question posted. Edit: maybe DC? With fists? I have 9 such models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenshard42 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Im a fan of vindi plates personally, or combi-plas sternguard podded on them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 hum I own neither of those things. That makes sense though. Did I mention I dislike units that cant run out and hit it with a sword? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I had a game today against Ultramarines with a Grav Cent unit and Tigurius rolling on Divination. They didn't fire a shot the entire game because I constantly stayed 30" away from them or out of line of sight I'm playing Raven Guard, but with a fast moving army like the Blood Angels, I'm pretty sure you can pull that off too ! EDIT : Actually, now that I think about it, they did make my Stormtalon Jink for a turn, but that's about it. Then I charged them out of a Stormraven with Assault Marines a Captain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Agreed. Maybe a bit about my play style. I. do. not. shoot. except for my devastators which I use constantly. My favorite units are the sang guard/dante star in the OP and my crusader with 7 assault termis and corbulo. do you think an assault squad could be tooled to deep strike in and kill them (I dislike the idea of ripping the jump packs off my assault marines and putting them in a drop pod I don't own)? What if my coward smurf opponent hides behind his centurions? should I make him walk into the meat grinder? I wish I had a vindi. But money. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Agreed. Maybe a bit about my play style. I. do. not. shoot. except for my devastators which I run constantly. My favorite units are the sang guard/dante star in the OP and my crusader with 7 assault termis and corbulo. do you think an assault squad could be tooled to deep strike in and kill them (I dislike the idea of ripping the jump packs off my assault marines and putting them in a drop pod I don't own)? What if my coward smurf opponent hides behind his centurions? should I make him walk into the meat grinder? I wish I had a vindi. But money. Well, I don't know much of the specifics of Blood Angels so I can't really help you with list building. I can offer tactical food for thought if you want however :D Basically, you want to diminish (and if possible negate) the effectiveness of enemy units first and foremost, over furiously charging in. Because when you attack, you expose yourself and you open up the possibility of return fire to exploit one weakness. In most games, it's preferable to not die over killing your opponent. How to stay alive with infantry ? Either through tanks, being out of line of sight, and being out of range. Grav Cannons have the great drawbacks of being 24" range, meaning that no matter what happens, if you're 30" away from the Centurions (and he's not pulling any allied shenanigans), he will never be able to hit a unit. Same goes if you place your units so he can't see you after having moved. Another weakness of the Centurions is that they can only shoot at one (at best two if he purchased the omniscope upgrade) units at a time. Work your way around them, securing the flanks (because he is likely to place them dead center of his DZ to maximize their threat bubble), destroying other units through concentration of firepower. Place your Devs deep into your deployment zone preferably in cover so he'll need to move forward (and thus expose his Centurions) if he wants to hit them. Another weakness of the Centurions is that they really suck in melee, and a cheap combat squad of Assault Marines will tie them up in combat pretty effectively. Few casualties on either side, but he'll have to dedicate some force to unlock them. In addition, getting stuck in melee with his other units will prevent him from shooting you. Centurions are tough and dish out the hurt, but there are ways around them. You can try to take them out in a turn but any smart enemy will prepare a welcome party to deal with your attack and use them as bait if he suspects you have units that are going to be dedicated for that. A Stormraven is also a great way to deal with Centurions, because despite their high number of shots, they can't fire well in the air. But don't go straight for them, try to outrange them because it's pretty damn easy until the battlefield is clear enough so you feel you can take them on comfortably. It's best to maximize your firepower to pick off units you can reliably win against, then finish off with the Centurions :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Thanks so much GreyCrow. I'm excited to try this out...in a week and a half. Well for now I will plot my revenge. I do have the problem of personal falling to the red thirst in the heat of battle. I am only happy when my models are destroying the emperor's foes in glorious hand to hand combat. Also, I would really appreciate another Blood Angels player picking this up, because we play such a distinguished and unique flavor of spess marine Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Just remember, Slow and Purposeful means they can't Overwatch. So, charge them. Charge the HELL out of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Hello, fellow brothers! Shooting and assaulting gravturions are both good ideas until your opponent realise that Tiggy baby can roll on Telepathy - and chances are pretty high he will get Invisibility... My advise is simple: if you can't beat them, lead them! Take SM ally consisting of Tigurius & Centurions (troop choice depend on the rest of your army; I would go for scouts). Roll on Telepathy. Cheer aloud if you get Invisibility. Take Mephiston and roll on Sangunary. Cheer aloud if you get Wings. Not (nearly) as disgusting as the abominable abomination we call Gate of Infinity, however... Captain Obvious Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 A Knight of some configuration is a pretty good option against Centurions. Grav weapons only affect vehicles on 6 and Super-heavies ignore immobilised results. Combined with the 4++ save from your Ion Shield, the Grav Cents will only knock off a couple of HPs from a volley at best. If you can use FW stuff then the Cerastus Knight-Castigator will deal with them in assault, even if Tiggy casts Invisibility on them. Its tempest attack automatically inflicts a single hit (at S10 AP2) on each model in base contact. Since this is automatic, it bypasses invis and will ID a centurion on a 2+. The Castigator bolt cannon will also make a mess of any power-armoured bodies or light vehicles on the way in. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/C/Castigator.pdf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4023866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempsey Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You can also use scouts... Infiltrate them close, and assault as soon as possible. He will have to deal with them and if not they can lock him... and locked centurions don't shoot - problem solved :-) (take sarge with power fist and grav pistol ;-) ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4024062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovidius Incertus Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You can also use scouts... Infiltrate them close, and assault as soon as possible. He will have to deal with them and if not they can lock him... and locked centurions don't shoot - problem solved :-) (take sarge with power fist and grav pistol ;-) ) This is a hilarious idea, to think of the lowly Scout squad tying up those pricey, shiny vets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4024184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You can also use scouts... Infiltrate them close, and assault as soon as possible. He will have to deal with them and if not they can lock him... and locked centurions don't shoot - problem solved :-) (take sarge with power fist and grav pistol ;-) ) This is a hilarious idea, to think of the lowly Scout squad tying up those pricey, shiny vets. I love my powerfist Scout Sgt. He's mega killy and he makes my opponents nervous. :> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4024219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlangWhanger Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 It seems you have a similar play style to me: charge and shot with Devastators! Just a couple more ideas from me to add to the wagon: 1) beat them at their own game - grav bikes in their before Tiggy can do something annoying like invisibility. Show 'em the true meaning of grav... 2) as previously mentioned, assault is their weakness. If they do have a character like Tigurius with them you want to make sure you kill him too, so you need something to get through those multi-wound cents: Death Company. Using Jump packs or a Land Raider get these guys up close quick, employing either cover or a distraction. Then pop out and deal some death... As with all great things the more the merrier, and you can equip them with whatever special weapons you see fit! Hope that helps, and I would be glad to see those nasty Centurions squashed into the ground! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4024571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Thanks everyone! I will respond to all. I hope it doesn't look like I'm being closed minded, just saying my resources are limited, and I like to stick to my sucky assault death stars that cost 1000 point CaptainHelion: Indubitably. Thank you. Captain Obvious: I am disinclined to buy allies, I want to stay pure. Also, $70 for an allied codex? I guess I can just use his. Thanks anyway. Karhedronuk: I don't even have a vindi or a baal pred yet... but I do have 10 sang guard and 30 DC all with jump packs and special weapons It's like 1500 points Thanks anyway. Dempsey: I am planning on getting some scouts because when the new dex came out I was left owning 0 troop choices. Never been one for those boring shooty tac squads, and 4+ armor was always way too squishy. Thanks. I will be doing this. Ovidius Incertus: Absolutely priceless. Thanks! Bukimimaru: This is what I was thinking. Keep up the good work on the Black Maru! Thanks! SlangWhanher: I own 0 bikes because they cost more than normal marines, also they look a little silly. I will charge, and I will prevail! Maybe. Edit: I may post a list soon... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4024705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempsey Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Servant of Dante - scouts have many uses :-) Few times I have put them (close combat variant) in Land Raider Crusader with tooled Sanguinary Priest. Opponent was like: He: what you have in that Crusader? Me: scouts with priest... He: What? Meh... And then, the priceless look on his face when 80% of full Grey Hunters squad disapeared BEFORE they could even swing their weapons. 4 WS5 I6 STR5 AP2 (Valours Edge) folowed by 27 WS4 I5 STR5 and 4 WS5 I5 STR5 AP3 (and remember that 4+ with 5+ FNP against standard attacks is like 3+, so they are as hard as normal marines in this setup and against power weapons they are harder than marines without FNP). Next combat phase it was over, so scouts embarked Crusader and moved on to next target ;-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4024815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hello, Servant of Dante! In case you are disinclined to use allies (I totally understand this; I also run pure red armies!) your opportunities are mostly covered by the other guys. In addition I would like to add four things: 1) Avoid large expensive units, they are prime targets for gravturions. Use many smaller units. (MSU tactics is our strenght anyway.) 2) Use cover extensively. In case you field relatively large amount of ruins you get 4+ cover save stock. Going to ground +1. Techmarines can bolster defenses by +1. (Love these guys!Low cost, 2+ armour to tank small arms fire, excellent special rules and can take JP!) Get Veritas Vitae and roll on the strategic table to get Stealth: Ruins. It is fairly easy to get a 2+ cover save. 3) Flyers are relatively safe thanks to hard-to-hit, jinx & excellent mobility. Last but not least: instead of fighting your opponent play the objectives! Trust me, It works wonders! ;-) Captain Obvious Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4025037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 What about Draigo with centurions? He can use Gate of Infinity even in close combat (if he can't kill his attackers by himself), and tanks wounds with 2+/3++ I haven't figured how to counter him yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4025069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smith Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Unfortunately your preferred type of army is the exact thing that Grav-cannon Centurions excel against. Hammer-and-Shield Terminators may have a chance if you prefer a direct approach; just one getting through will ruin their day. Jump Infantry or Bikes will also work well if you hug cover and keep them out of sight until their assault. Alternatively, allying some cheap infantry would work against them. I nice big horde of 5+ or 6+ saves could screen the rest of the army, keep those Grav-cannons rolling fives or sixes to-wound, and hopefully tie them up in close combat for a few turns. As blasphemous as it is, Daemons are probably the best thing to use against them; Grav weapons only wound them on sixes, they get their invulnerable saves and they're strong in close combat. Daemonettes also have Fleet and Rending, making them even better against Centurions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4025319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Drop pod with Inferno pistols and meltas ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4025611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 It really is as simple as getting a cheap jump pack unit into melee with them. They can't get out of combat once they're in it, and they have no power weapons of any type. They might whittle your unit down over a couple turns, but every turn they fight in melee is a turn they're not firing all that disgusting Grav at you. You'll even be S5 on the charge, and as a result cause more wounds for them to save. Also, politely remind the opposing player that the same Centurion must take all the saves til he dies, so he can't spread those one or two failed saves around in a single round of combat. Using Scouts to lock them up is pretty awesome. You BAs get Scouts with Furious Charge, right? That's even sweeter. Just watch out for Tiggy and his force staff, as it'll bite through your armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4025634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Don't worry about killing them. Just tie them up in combat. 3-4 power armoured guys could reasonably expect to keep them occupied for more turns than a game lasts. Who cares if they're invisible? They're not shooting, that's the important thing. Personally, I'd be more worried about a White Scars IC attaching to them and giving the ability to leap out of combat than being Invisibilitied. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306828-countering-grav-centurions/#findComment-4027022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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