BA Alpha Strike

[Frater Cornelius]

I have long held the opinion that SM factions have the best alpha strike potential in the game by virtue of pods and scouting bikes.

In the face of the new Eldar and possible resurgence of Knights I wanted to come back to this topic and create a bit of an Obj.Sec. spam combined with that trademark SM alpha strike.

I want to achieve it with a combination of BA and WS.

 

WS is pretty self-explanatory. Scouting Grav Bikes and access to Centurions and TFC.

Why BA? They have access to FA pods, the most point-efficient Drop Pod Meltas with ASM and some of the best Tacticals because of the Heavy Flamer (awesome to have a heavy-weapon that csn be fired on arrival).

 

This is the first concept:

 

 

CAD 1

Khan - Moondrakken

 

5 Bikes - 2x Grav, Combi-Grav

5 Bikes - 2x Grav, Combi-Grav

5 Bikes - 2x Grav, Combi-Grav

 

3 Grav-Centurions - Omniscope

Thunderfire Cannon

Thunderfire Cannon

 

CAD 2

Librarian - ML2, Gallian's Staff

 

10 Tactical Marines - Melta, Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

+ Drop Pod

10 Tactical Marines - Melta, Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

+ Drop Pod

 

5 Assault Marines - 2x Melta, Combi-Melta

+ Drop Pod

5 Assault Marines - 2x Melta, Combi-Melta

+ Drop Pod

 

Drop Pod

 

1810pts - 40pts to go

 

 

 

The idea is to saturate the board with pods, dudes and bikes. I skipped Grav Bike CS and CM in favour of more dudes.

 

I played a SW/WS variant against new Eldar. The player was cheesy but list wasn't refined, so it was a win. I am hoping that this setup will be even better.

 

Thoughts, ideas?

[Captain Obvious]

Hello, fellow brothers!

 

I would suggest going for Flesh Tearers Strike Force in order to minimise the troop tax.

Insted of a single combimelta the sarge should wield a brace of inferno pistols.

 

Captain Obvious

[Remtek]

Looks strong and the thunderfire cannons fit nicely for going last. I'd take an auspex on Libby to reduce some cover saves for the cents. I'm thinking Eldar will reserve a lot and try to tank most of the Alpha with WK. The list has both mech and blobs pretty well covered. Personally i'm an assault fanboy, but looks like a list that can win tournaments.

 

@Captain Obvious

That would be a pretty big hit to the ObSec synergi. Personally think combi melta is more competitive due to the lower price and better range. 

[Charlo]

Something about white scars bikers just feels inherently cheesy to me, but in light of the new jetbikes my opinion may well change :D

 

Still find it funny Scars can get Centurions though.

 

List looks solid, althouh I prefer to go all out on my tacticals; Big flamer, medium flamer and two little ones one the sarge for maximum xeno roasting template madness. Leave the tank busting to the assault troops.

 

I think this'll do well against anything. Can I ask what the big deal about TFCs is? Never popped out at me much other than looking cool.

[Remtek]

TFC put out a lot of wounds for the points (4 small blasts) and are annoying to take out for a lot of armies. Barrage is also nice, so you can snipe infantry with a lot of upgrades.

[Frater Cornelius]

TFC are solid objective sitters due to being artillery in a fortified ruin, curtesy of the TM. It handles hordes over longer range and thins them out before they can be a threat to your dudes. It can glance light vehicles to death since it is a barrage weapon. It can eliminate cover camping scumbags like Snipers or Pathfinders. It can mitigate enemy alpha strike by giving your ground dudes a better place to hide.

While it does nothing of this perfect, it makes up for it with flexibility and toughness. Good package for 100pts.

 

@ Remtek - Staying in reserve for Eldar can actually benefit me. This list can kill 2 WK T1. After that you have almost complete boars domination and the Eldar needs to bank on reserve rolls to contest it. I am far more worried about surviving Eldar alpha strike to be fair.

 

@ Charlo - That Flamer setup sounds decent. I would generally prefer HF, F, CF. I am not yet sure how well this does though. Flamers are pretty unflexible weapons. But I do have plenty of Grav and Meltas, so it may just be the right way.

 

Two more questions to you guys.

1) What is your experience with ASM suicide Meltas. Worth the investment?

2) This list has a few spare points, even more if I exchange Tac Meltas for Flamers. Would this list benefit from Mephiston instead of a regular Libby accompanying the Cents?

[Charlo]

Mephiston would certainly prevent a few more charges but if he's just standing there buffing he's a waste of the points, needs to be hitting with that sanguine sword I think.

 

Melta cide are great, if they nuke a target on the drop it's pretty win win for you. If the opponent is scared of the next four Melta shots they will get fired at and Oh no you just lost 5 Marines, big deal.

 

I like deathwind on my pods too, turns that obj sec annoyance into an obj sec threat. Very nice plus it's more wound circles being thrown around, possibly redundant with TFC though.

 

On TFC, they sound awesome. Thanks for the tip, will have to convert some because no way am I paying for that fine cast monster.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, I am split on DW pods, because if you invest points into them, they become a valid target. No one wants to shoot a 35pts pod that is just standing there. A 50pts large blast spewing pod becomes a more valid target and more readily removed. I will have to play-test it.

[GreyCrow]

And then the opponent brings an inquisitor ally with 3 Servo Skulls and you can't Scout anywhere :p Or Scouts Infiltrated up the board, and with the changes of the Scout USR you're not able to redeploy within 12" of an opponent. Or a Landspeeder Storm with Jamming Beacon to scatter your Pods far away.

Happened to me in my Raven Guard alpha strike proto army, now I'm playing the full 5 turns :p

 

I'm definitely not saying that it's not a bad idea. White Scars are definitely great for alpha striking. Just be careful about all the possible counters to the list ;) I think that the Alpha Strike in C:SM (I'm not sure about Blood Angels) comes in the form of superior ranged firepower, which your TFCs do well here. Anything that requires to be close range in my humble opinion should be predatory strike or a finisher, because you have to worry less about range in order to maximize the firepower.

 

With the 40 points you've got left, may I suggest 2 deathwing launchers on the ASM pods ? 15 points each and you've got that extra ability to clear up infantry next to your deep struck units.

[Charlo]

Hm, I am split on DW pods, because if you invest points into them, they become a valid target. No one wants to shoot a 35pts pod that is just standing there. A 50pts large blast spewing pod becomes a more valid target and more readily removed. I will have to play-test it.

I guess one downside is that because you aren't running much armour all the anti tank will be going straight on these.

[Frater Cornelius]

Ah, the infamous 34pts. Bikes have a 30" threat range on top of deployment, so in order to avoid bikes he would need to deploy further than 6" away from his line. Most annoying 34pts you can spend :D

Opponents Infiltrators worry me less seeing as I still get a few inches and kill them afterwards.

 

But the concern is valid. I guess in those cases I will need to play defensive with Bikes or, if I go first, possibly Outflank.

Luckily, Maelstrom encourages you to get out of you deployment zone. So going second in case of skulls might also be a good choice. Allow him to close the range first.

[Remtek]

How many wounds are the Cent's putting out turn 1? I havent used cents but i'd guess 12-13 with double re-rolls (and prescience needs 6 dice to be around 90%). If the WK is in ruins that's a 4+ cover 5+ with Auspex 5+ cover and 5+ fnp should be 5-6 wounds on avg that's only 1 WK on avg and many times it will have 1-3 wounds left if it rolls slightly above avg. I guess if you get the infiltrate trait you can drop 2 if you roll hot. Getting perfect timing power might kill 2.

 

Edit: And night fighting will give the WK 3+ cover

[Captain Obvious]

Hello, fellow brothers!

 

In case you insist on using CAD I would definitely go for Veritas Vitae. It worths its weight in gold.

@ Remtek: I think one more meltashot in the turn you arrive well woth the additional points cost. But It is a question of personal preference, indeed.

 

Captain Obvious

 

Edit Sorry, I forgot Kor'sarro Khan will be the warlord. My bad.

[GreyCrow]

Ah, the infamous 34pts. Bikes have a 30" threat range on top of deployment, so in order to avoid bikes he would need to deploy further than 6" away from his line. Most annoying 34pts you can spend

Opponents Infiltrators worry me less seeing as I still get a few inches and kill them afterwards.

But the concern is valid. I guess in those cases I will need to play defensive with Bikes or, if I go first, possibly Outflank.

Luckily, Maelstrom encourages you to get out of you deployment zone. So going second in case of skulls might also be a good choice. Allow him to close the range first.

Good thinking, that's what I want to hear ;) And yeah, these 34 points can mess up a strategy constructed pre game, which is why : options, options, options :D

Regarding the DW Pod, sure, he might shoot at them. But think about it as anti-tank firepower that will not be aimed at your Marines :) And that means, no getting your bikes to Jink. And if he doesn't shoot at them, that's a 24" diameter threat bubble where the Pods will be a pain in the butt.

As much as it's good to have options, it's even better to give options to your opponent : choose between a rock and a hard place :p

[Frater Cornelius]

I meant two WK with the Combined firepower of the entire list, plus-minus a few units. Cents with double-rerools will put 11.8 wounds on a WK. With just FnP that is 7.9 wounds. 5.3 if it is in 5+ cover or if Auspex lowers 4+ cover to 5+.

Three Grav Bike units would get 12 wounds. With just FnP that is 8 wounds. 5.3 wounds if in 5+ cover and 4 wounds if in 4+ cover.

Obviously, I will not shoot the WK when it is in 4+ cover. 5+ is worth considering. But seeing as a WK will kill 2 Marines at most per turn, I will focus on the softer things first. In those cases the Cents will come down T2-3 to kill it.

[Just4uCupCake]

My experience with meltacide is one of great glory and the occasional sadness crying on the floor sucking my thumb. I run 1 or 3 units of ASM MC and I always deploy last. I also run Double Inferno's which works the best for me, ive tried combi but you only get one shot and i like the 2 from pistols every turn. when I run 3 meltacides Nothing with an AV is alive by turn 2 very effective in my opinion over 400 pts mind you tho.