depthcharge12 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 So I'm pretty sure you've all seen the new knights being released, but we have no idea how they'll be incorporated into the heresy books, if they actually do it for Tempest. I think it may be safe to assume that the three new knight variants will all count for troops for taking knight allies, unless FW decides to allow them as LoWs. I don't think it would be far fetched to think that the Gallant might be a FA choice or the warden/crusader might be heavies either, but since it seems that the paladin and errant have been seen with the new missile launchers, I wouldn't think that the new patterns would be moved to a different slot. Sorry about the rambling, but I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts. I think that the warden with the SS missile launcher, Gatling, melta, and heavy flamer will get a lot of love. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 atleast for now, the "choices" (HQ, troops, etc) are depending on the rank of the knight, not on his chassis^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If they are included in the Questoris list, I feel that theyll be that much more potent especially since they can get special rules like skyfire (for all their guns; gattling cannon im looking at you!), interceptor and tank hunter to name a few. In that sense, theyll be a pretty tough, well rounded army all their own! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I think the Gatling cannon is way better than the TL avenger bolter that the castigator has, you're on average getting 8 shots through instead of the 6/7 of the avenger bolter not to mention with rending. The top missile launcher comes into it's own as the SS is great for harassing medium armor tanks or killing more marines. The other launcher is pretty good for SA and AdMech. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Also, since spartans arent SHVs, if you punch one out you can then throw it back onto the occupants (s7 ap-, still hilarious though) But yes, the gattling is better than the bolt cannon, i agree mostly due to more shots and rending. I would, however, give the interceptor upgrade to the castigator and have gattling with skyfire. That way you have massed volume of fire at whatever an opponent would be bringing in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I agree with that. What specialties would you assign to these various knights? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Being fair; BS4 TL 8 shots = 7 hits BS4 12 Shots = 8 hits It isn't a huge difference, and considering that the S10 AP2 Deflagrate Sweep Attack which causes ~12 wounds in a typical assault phase, it is a comparatively much cheaper weapon. I'm not that fussed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Being fair; BS4 TL 8 shots = 7 hits BS4 12 Shots = 8 hits It isn't a huge difference, and considering that the S10 AP2 Deflagrate Sweep Attack which causes ~12 wounds in a typical assault phase, it is a comparatively much cheaper weapon. I'm not that fussed. True, but the Gatling cannon has rending, making it better against TEQ saves or artificer sgts that can tank all those AP3 shots. I do think the castigator's sword is better than the reaper sword/fist. I think all the weapons you can take on the Warden is what makes so appealing, even though it will end up pricier than the castigator. A melta for 5 points shouldn't be over looked, you can kill a heavy transport with that, then charge the occupants in the assault phase, you can't even scratch a LR/Spartan with the castigator cannon. I don't even see that much AC on tanks anymore either. Not to mention the Warden can take the SS missile launcher that can engage another tank or other unit for the Warden to assault, giving it flexibility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Being fair; BS4 TL 8 shots = 7 hits BS4 12 Shots = 8 hits It isn't a huge difference, and considering that the S10 AP2 Deflagrate Sweep Attack which causes ~12 wounds in a typical assault phase, it is a comparatively much cheaper weapon. I'm not that fussed. True, but the Gatling cannon has rending, making it better against TEQ saves or artificer sgts that can tank all those AP3 shots. I do think the castigator's sword is better than the reaper sword/fist. I think all the weapons you can take on the Warden is what makes so appealing, even though it will end up pricier than the castigator. A melta for 5 points shouldn't be over looked, you can kill a heavy transport with that, then charge the occupants in the assault phase, you can't even scratch a LR/Spartan with the castigator cannon. I don't even see that much AC on tanks anymore either. Not to mention the Warden can take the SS missile launcher that can engage another tank or other unit for the Warden to assault, giving it flexibility. yeah, but we may get different point values for the 30k versions of the crusader/warden/gallant ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You don't really want to fire an AP3 gun against 2+ Saves; Rending or not. Rending on an AP- to AP5 (or even AP4), it's no loss. But when you're trading nearly 6-8 "guaranteed" (make rabbit fingers here) kills for a chance to only maybe get possibly 1 or 2 rends (which then get a 50-67% chance to save? That's no good whatsoever. If you want to waste it, feel free, but you don't really get that much benefit from Rend on an AP3 weapon. Sure you CAN, but you don't WANT to. I like the ability for Rending to take on a Spartan or LR etc and open it up for a lovely little tickle from a thunderfist and launch it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Giving it the BS5 from either of the HQ upgrades will make the Gatling cannon godly. When I've done test rolls (I know, silly right?) I've always gotten more than 1 rending. As for against a Spartan, I might shy away from that due to reliability issues, but flinging the damn thing would brighten up my day, not to mention that the terminators or whoever's riding in will get plopped at the feet of a knight Titan. As for against 2+ saves, it may not be advisable, but you're wounding on 2s with 6s counting as AP2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Giving it the BS5 from either of the HQ upgrades will make the Gatling cannon godly. When I've done test rolls (I know, silly right?) I've always gotten more than 1 rending. As for against a Spartan, I might shy away from that due to reliability issues, but flinging the damn thing would brighten up my day, not to mention that the terminators or whoever's riding in will get plopped at the feet of a knight Titan. As for against 2+ saves, it may not be advisable, but you're wounding on 2s with 6s counting as AP2. The Coloured part may not always be a good thing since the Fling happens after the Assault Phase meaning they get a free charge on you in most cases. If its Vulkan/Ferrus/Angron/<insert other Primarch that can tear tanks in half> and their equivalent Terminator Bodyguard, that knight may or may not just evaporate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Giving it the BS5 from either of the HQ upgrades will make the Gatling cannon godly. When I've done test rolls (I know, silly right?) I've always gotten more than 1 rending. As for against a Spartan, I might shy away from that due to reliability issues, but flinging the damn thing would brighten up my day, not to mention that the terminators or whoever's riding in will get plopped at the feet of a knight Titan. As for against 2+ saves, it may not be advisable, but you're wounding on 2s with 6s counting as AP2. The Coloured part may not always be a good thing since the Fling happens after the Assault Phase meaning they get a free charge on you in most cases. If its Vulkan/Ferrus/Angron/<insert other Primarch that can tear tanks in half> and their equivalent Terminator Bodyguard, that knight may or may not just evaporate. And then your Titan mushroom clouds and takes most of them with him. And I'd say it's better to tie them up in combat where you'd actually be able to hurt them, rather then have them charge your units you don't want them to. Give the Titan the rule for overwatch and take out some more of their precious assault unit. You'd have bare minimum the Gatling cannon, a heavy flamer, and a heavy stubber. Forcing saves on TEQ units is one of the best ways to take them out. Of course Vulkan/Ferrus can tear anything in half - the hell are you going to fight them with? You may have a primarch, but even then they'll likely win. You sure ain't gonna kill Vulkan/fired rakes with plasma spam or terminators - D weapons overcome all of those shortfalls and can just instagib Vulkan. While possible, I don't think Vulkan will strip all of the hullpoints from the knight in a turn, and if he does, it might go nuclear and take him with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well, youre right of course were it not for vulkan and ferrus dealing out s10 ap1/2 at initiative 5+ meaning they could probably kill it with a single hit and only be subject to a single d hit from the center of the blast instead lf the 4+ they would otherwise be subject to. As well as Angron having S8/9 armorbane and way-too-many attacks. If we ignore the Primarchs and how potentially bad for your knight punching their ride and tossing it at them might be: Them all having a skyfire option available army wide is something that aircav forces will now have to keep in mind. Solo, the icarus arent that amazing but when they can (probably) all take one, well, thats a lot of shots. Assuming youre going for a pure knight force, that is. They can now pump out a lot of dakka. Betwee. The Volkite Chierovilles 8 shots, the castigators 8 TLd and the gattling cannons 12, they can drown your whole force in shots were they so inclined. The new fist being s:D is a fringe benefit since its initiative 1 due to the hurl rule which, being at most s8 ap- large blast, its very RNG sensitive. In most cases the chainsword, lance, chainfist and deflagrate sword are better CC options. In either case theyre still getting Stomps. The addition of more anti-horde options (heavy flame on the gattling) while it might not be as relevant to PA armies, is still a mice little addition for dealkng with hordes and the option for a shoulder melta is neat when the other option was a heavy stubber; though granted you only really used it to have the option to charhe something else. More weapons that can be shot will also mean that youll have to be wearier of a tooled up knight. Other than that, Im still going to be waiting for the complete rules to be out before final judgement. I doubt its going to change much in the long run besides more viable knight armies popping up. We shall see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4024676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Is it possible with the new Knights to completely customise their loadouts? Twin gatling cannon would be fun as all-hell if possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4027129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Is it possible with the new Knights to completely customise their loadouts? Twin gatling cannon would be fun as all-hell if possible. The crusader might, but we haven't seen any such variation in the pictures. So if a fist armed knight kills multiple units of a vehicle squadron (not likely, but possible), can it throw more than one unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4027130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 That's how I've read it. Castellax juggling, here we come. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4027151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 That's how I've read it. Castellax juggling, here we come. It's like Bozo's balls, except with two ton adamantine robots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306853-new-knights-hh-and-you/#findComment-4027400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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