Aegis Defense Line...Worth it?

[wulfgar hammerfist]

As the title states, do you feel that the trusty ADL is worth including in an army? Given the amount of cover ignoring weapons that are increasingly present on the battlefield, it seems like it isn't worth taking anymore. What are your thoughts?

[march10k]

It's not terrible, unless you start tacking on upgrades, pile too many men behind it, or expect it to deliver a 5++ to a tank.  But if you keep fewer than 26 models behind it, it's not bad.  At 2 infantry squads and one platoon command squad, it comes out to 2ppm for a 4++  in what would otherwise be open ground...  I wouldn't decide not to take one because of the cover ignoring stuff, I would just either have a plan to prevent cover from being denied (i.e. intercept that heavy flamer before it does a drive-by) or minimize the attraction by limiting the number of models cowering behind the wall.  Personally, I stopped using an ADL over a year ago.  A landing pad costs 50% more but gives a 4+ invul instead of 4+ cover, and it's a great place to park a long range tank squadron!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Depends on what options you take. If you take it for the options it offers you in addition to the cover save (because some armies have difficulty with ignoring cover) it can be great. Officer of the fleet behind one with the comm array, you get re-rollable +1 reserve rolls. Put a gunline behind it with the ammo dump and get re-rolls on to hits of 1's. Need air defense, take a quad gun. It can offer you more than just the cover save.

[march10k]

I find the upgrades especially worthless...a T7 quad autocannon...versus an AV14 quad icarus lascannon?  No comparison!!! If you take it at all, try to protect about one model per two points (so 25 models) and take no upgrades.  The purpose of the ADL is to provide a good cover save in open ground...if you deviate from that, it gets expensive and becomes a more attractive target.  50 points and not one point more...and keep in mind that cover ignoring weapons ignore ADLs just like they ignore ruins...it's not a waste of points, but it's also slightly less good than actual ruins (because of the possibility of indirect fire landing behind the wall)

[FashaTheDog]

More cover ignoring weapons are present than ever before, but if used on a table with 25% terrain, it gives you the ability to add more cover and add it where your want it.  Generally speaking if you actually cover a full quarter of the table with cover providing terrain, including pieces that block line of sight, then the increased number of ignores cover is not really a major issue.  The problem with Aegis Defense Lines and Wall of Martyrs is when you really only have that as cover.  Many people set up far less terrain than is recommended and then wonder why ignores cover weapons make cover saves completely useless.  When you have sufficient cover to block line of sight in some areas (perhaps from certain angles only due to narrow windows) and loads of places for models to get 4+ and 5+ saves, the number of cover ignoring weapons your typical army brings to bear is really insufficient to make the purchase of cover providing fortifications a poor choice (although some specific lists may not mesh well, but that is true of all units).  Well, typical army outside of a Guard army and even then most Guard armies are not spamming ignores cover any more than they are already spamming everything else.

 

Now that being said, I prefer the Wall of Martyrs Defense Network for two reasons.  The first is that I got that big box (three lines, two emplacements, one bunker) and do not own an Aegis Defense Line.  The second is that our store has a beautiful trench table people rarely want to play on and as the local Krieg player I figure that if my foes do not want to use the table with all the trenches for everyone, then I will bring all the trenches just for me.

[march10k]

I quite agree that people don't tend to deploy enough terrain. My perception is that the increase in cover-ignoring weapons has reduced the ADL from "auto-include" to "worth its points"

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I don't usually deploy terrain as part of my army because it interferes with my play style. Still, I think that in certain instances the upgrades are worth it, especially when I need air defense. The ADL fits better with my rapid deployment philosophy, so getting a quad gun for some additional air defense is worth an extra 50 points in my mind. 

[Emicus]

I think it can also depend on who you are going to play, what your list is and what the mission is, as well as the aforementioned "do you have enough terrain?". If you don't face a lot of armies with grenades, that's a cheap way to deny charge bonuses. If you've got someone sitting behind it on an objective, Go to Ground is very powerful behind it. Re-rolling reserves can be really strong too. Ignores cover, well, how much of that are they bringing?

​If they blow their ignores cover on 10 guardsmen behind an ADL instead of... whatever else they might be shooting at, I think that's generally a win.

[WarriorFish]

Worthwhile if you have some troopers who need cover, I agree with what has been said. It can't work with large quantities nor highly mobile armies but it's usually pretty clear if your list will benefit or not :)