Helias_Tancred Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 If you're going with an I1 weapon, I'd say he needs a bike. No point striking hard if you're going to be simultaneously squished by that powerfist wielding aspiring champion. So maybe Valour's Edge and a good pistol would be better than going with a powerfist? As we get Str and Ini 5 on the charge, valour's edge is great. Thanks Charlo. Here is my dilemma. I'm building my captain as I see him and I'm split. Fluff/Lore/Characterization I see him using a powerfist and the Fury of Baal plasma pistol relic .... but I know in the game he would be more capable with a plasma pistol and Valour's Edge. I'm trying to figure out how much more capable he would be with the latter versus the disadvantages of the former. Other things he will have in addition to the normal captain stats: artificer armor. He will also be with his honor guard and weapons outside the standard they will be carrying are: combi-grav, power sword, melta gun. So ... knowing all the facts surrounding him, going with the relic Fury of Baal plasma pistol and powerfist versus plasma pistol and valour's edge, is it that big of an in-game deal? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4030542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Valour's Edge & plasma pistol is 35 points, while Power Fist & Fury of Baal is 50. With the first combination you have one plasma shot that hits on 2+ and 5 attacks str5 ap2, initiative 6 on the charge . The second combination gives you one plasma shot that hits on a 2+ with a reroll, and 4 attacks str9 ap2, initiative 1 on the charge. Yes he can hit really hard but I wouldn't trust him in a challenge, so this is where a Company Champion comes in handy I guess. Also, do you really feel that a mastercrafted plasma pistol, that already hits on a 2+ and has the same cost as a power fist, is something worth having for your Captain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4030626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Ok, so going with the powerfist, you know you can take a storm shield in addition to those, right? A captain takes one, and doesnt replace a weapon unless he is in termie armour. Maybe powerfist, grav pistol and storm shield, and have him as an awesome monster hunter? EDIT: Always go with the awesome idea you have in mind. The pistol/valour combo may be better 75% of the time, however that first time your captain concusses a carnifex then punches it do death...you'll remember that forever. Space Marines are all about the legends. Actually, I might just make that model myself! Jump pack too, to help him hunt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4030687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Failing all that, magnetise and make him a true master of combat! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4030725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Fist and Claw or AP2 sword for budget. It's really worth the points to get both when going fist, 15 points for an extra attack and shred is great value and you han still have stormshield. On a bike fist-combi grav can good as well if your facing many MC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4030785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Fist and Claw or AP2 sword for budget. It's really worth the points to get both when going fist, 15 points for an extra attack and shred is great value and you han still have stormshield. On a bike fist-combi grav can good as well if your facing many MC. No, if you choose to take a stormshield, you may never claim the bonus attack for using two combat weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4031385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The valdor edge and grav with SS is nasty combo. Grav over plasm can be argued all day. IMO grav wins out. Comes down to your play style and what you want your model to be slinging at the time. If your short on parts or don't want to magnetic your guy just grab the holster pistol bit . If your HMFIC is carrying a holster pistol it can be what every you want to be. Just make sure the person your playing knows. While loseing the attck with SS is limited downside, your making up for it with the pistol shot, even more so if firing anything over BP. The VE will make light work of just about anything your hitting. The grav has the chance concuss what ever it wounds. This huge when MC hunting. Big scary BT usually rocking WS 9+ not no more WS 1 just in time land ap2 to face. In regards to plasma it's just as deadly but lose haywire and dropping ws1 but will stripe a W before the assault. The captain is the one leading the beat train so kitting him out to make bitches grab there ankle's is a must. Power fist look cool sound cool but can leave you with sad face when he gets smoked because he hitting last and dice rolls didn't save you. Power fist are best suited to be hidden ie DC, VV, SG. But at the end of day it comes down to 2 things 1 it's your army built what you like/want 2 always follow rule of cool. golly gee is autocorrect switch :cuss up to crush train. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4031905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 If you're going with an I1 weapon, I'd say he needs a bike. No point striking hard if you're going to be simultaneously squished by that powerfist wielding aspiring champion. So maybe Valour's Edge and a good pistol would be better than going with a powerfist? As we get Str and Ini 5 on the charge, valour's edge is great. This. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4032071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Ok, so going with the powerfist, you know you can take a storm shield in addition to those, right? A captain takes one, and doesnt replace a weapon unless he is in termie armour. Maybe powerfist, grav pistol and storm shield, and have him as an awesome monster hunter? EDIT: Always go with the awesome idea you have in mind. The pistol/valour combo may be better 75% of the time, however that first time your captain concusses a carnifex then punches it do death...you'll remember that forever. Space Marines are all about the legends. Actually, I might just make that model myself! Jump pack too, to help him hunt. So far he has a plasma pistol. I see that as one of his preferred weapons. So you're saying I could also go with a storm shield and powerfist too? Sounds like yeah he may be slow on the hit but he would have a 2+/3+/4+ save and when he hits with the fist he'll wreck *bleep*!! I think Valour's Edge is real cool but I see Tiberius Karn (my namesake Captain) as using a powerfist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4037807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 That's best way to go build your army the way you see it. One thing you can only get 2 save and inv, save. You listed 3 saves. Have you look at adding a command squad for him. There often over looked, but I find them great for keeping beat stick alive longer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4037917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 The other save was coming from a storm shield. Is that legit? Oh yeah he has a command squad that he deploys with Meltagun on one marine, and a powersword and combi-grav on the veteran sergeant ... and the apothecary/sanguinary initiate, banner marine, and the company champion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4037927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 I've actually gotten some good mileage from that command squad paired with my captain. I normally use them all of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4037928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I rarely field my captain, however have it armed in TDA(5th ed dex- now u can get arti armor), with LC and ChF awesome challange-toon that can be thrown against everything and yet have a chance to live trough the encounter :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4038078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Maybe I misunderstood you with the 3 saves so I broke it to explain what I menu by 2 saves. For the saves you can only get 2 saves. One from your amour and one from inv save. Example captin in AA and with storm sheild, you get your 2+ save for AA if you fail that, or get hit with Ap2/1 than your 3+ from SS kicks in. Command sq are great imo. They pair well capt that are built for CC. I toss in few SS for that extra survivability , and a grav pistols over comb grav, the reason is there always moving and want/need to be in CC. So skipping CC just get off a Slavo shot isn't worth it. Assult type weapond or pistols tend to offer more Benfits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4038349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Maybe I misunderstood you with the 3 saves so I broke it to explain what I menu by 2 saves. For the saves you can only get 2 saves. One from your amour and one from inv save. Example captin in AA and with storm sheild, you get your 2+ save for AA if you fail that, or get hit with Ap2/1 than your 3+ from SS kicks in. Wait, Wut? Thats not how Invun saves work... right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4038362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 It hasn't worked that was since the second edition. In today's game you only ever roll the highest save possible (so either your armour, invulnerable or cover save), followed by any special ability (such as FnP) as abilities aren't saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4038371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 *phew* For a second there I thought I had been playing the rules wrong for about 6 years. >_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4038376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Pre FAQ 2nd ed there wasn't a limit of one invulnerable save.... Eldar far seers could have 4+ armour ( although it worked like warhammer and got degraded) 4++ from Rune armour and 4++ from a field who's name escapes me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4038465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Pre FAQ 2nd ed there wasn't a limit of one invulnerable save.... Eldar far seers could have 4+ armour ( although it worked like warhammer and got degraded) 4++ from Rune armour and 4++ from a field who's name escapes me. A friend of mine once fielded a Chief Librarian wearing TDA, with his four Wargear Cards being a Power Field, Displacer Field, Conversion Field and Refractor Field as it had died every game prior. As I recall, he was killed by a vortex grenade Good times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4038469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 :cuss my bad I totally :cussed that up. I was thinking one thing and typing another and didn't bother to proof read what I typed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4039063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Dual wield rules .... my captain could technically dual wield plasma and bolt pistols right? Rules-wise that would give him an attack bonus to hit or just a new shooting attack with the bolt pistol in addition to the plasma? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4040265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 He would take advantage of the Gunslinger rule, so he can fire both in shooting and then they count as two close combat weapons in combat. But you'd only be AP- in combat, not good. If you want a gunslinger HQ you can always use Cypher the Fallen. He's allowed in most imperial forces, he just causes your actual warlord to be at - 1ld. Hes very powerful being able to attack with his pistols in combat split over his attacks :) plus modelling opportunities aplenty! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4040592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks Charlo. I ditched that concept. Just a plasma pistol and Valour's Edge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306939-better-melee-weapon-for-my-captain-power-sword-or-fist/page/2/#findComment-4041608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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