Incarnating the God-Machine - ETL IV Vow Complete!

[jeffersonian000]

GW gave us the general heights of each Titan class back when Apocalypse first came out, via the carapace weapon minimum ranges. Reavers had an 18" min range, Warlords a 24" min range, and Emperors a 36" min range. Based on the carapace weapons having a 45-degree arc of fire including up and down, the minimum range told us the relative height the weapons sat at. If you measure the distance between the ground and the center of the new Warlord's carapace weapons, you measure around 24".

 

SJ

[CommodusXIII]

I meant more so by the artwork referenced above. The Warhound in the Apocalypse comparison artwork goes to the Warlord's knees, just about the same with mine. Forge World's version lines up with the Warhound at its waist.  While the math may check out on the angle of fire in this instance, that's not a reliable statistic.  Even fixed weaponry has a 45-degree fire arc despite being completely unable to move.

 

The larger proportions of EnGen's (and Blackadder's) scratchuilds are even a step down from GW's original take on 40K-scale Warlord Titans.  Cactus posted this snippet earlier, which shows that the old Banelord was built to be 48" tall.  It's been a while since we talked about that, but I remember him saying that the loyalist Warlord in the same display was quite a bit smaller.  If nothing else, that demonstrates a wide variability of height to fall within.

All-in-all, I'm much happier with the scaling that EnGen went with over the new Forge World model. To me, it's closer to both the published artwork and GW's own scratchbuilds.  To each his own, though - I don't think that Forge World will be hurting for interest in their model.

 

EDIT:

In case anyone is interested, EnGen is posting pictures of their latest commission.  You can see what these things look like from the inside out.

[CommodusXIII]

http://i.imgur.com/OKwJbZUl.jpg?1 

 

The last set of side turrets are finished. Onto the torso!

 

http://i.imgur.com/nc7Mamdl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/J8oEEvIl.jpg

 

I had some friends over to start a campaign, and took the opportunity to assemble Lux Aeterna for the first time since the initial picture.  Looking pretty good!  Except...

 

http://i.imgur.com/SSAXSmPl.jpg

 

The kill pennants scrape the legs. This is what I get for not test-fitting with the assembled model, but at the time I didn't have a complete model to assemble. Oh well.

 

http://i.imgur.com/RXh25vyl.jpg

 

I relocated the kill pennant mounts to the front of the shield. It isn't pretty, but it'll work.

[CommodusXIII]

And to wrap-up my ongoing diatribe of scale...

 

http://i.imgur.com/9lAmRIm.jpg

 

Blackadder found a very interesting comparison of the old EPIC models, something that I had never thought to do.  It turns out that the Lucius just stands taller to begin with.  Problem solved!

 

Here's the same comparison with Forge World's Mars-pattern Titan line.  I used the Reaver as the metric, based on the earlier picture of it next to the EnGen Lucius' legs.  The EPIC Lucius-pattern stands in for the 40K-scale version as I don't have any pictures at a comparable angle.

 

http://i.imgur.com/1pgxxbUl.png

 

As you can see, the carapace mounts of the new model are much less exaggerated than the old Epic model.  Barring this, Forge World's Mars-pattern and my Lucius-pattern maintain a similar difference in height.  It would appear that all is right with the world.

[Vel'Cona]

In my book, the Mars-pattern's shoulder weapons just look odd against the smaller shoulders/torso.  I get that it's a more compact design that will be harder to shoot, but it just doesn't look imposing like the Lucius.  Is it just me?

[CommodusXIII]

If it is, it's just the two of us.

 

The two patterns evoke two different mental images.  The Mars-pattern is more agile, and perhaps more... alive in its movements.  I can see the carapace weapons constantly scanning and tracking targets, like the Predator's plasma caster.  Their components look highly exposed but, like the 30K Mechanicum vehicles, this probably is a bit misleading - they can get away with such frivolities because of the quality of their designs and components.

 

Conversely, I see the Lucius-pattern being very stiff in its movements.  Something akin to a walking version of an old ironclad.  Where the Mars-pattern would navigate around city buildings, I picture the Lucius-pattern walking through them.

 

This fits in well with the history of the two patterns.  The Mars-patterns are ancient, and in 40K the older something is the more advanced it is.  The Lucius-patterns are newer and so, while their aesthetics appear to be more modern to us, they're actually a step back from the Mars.  Hence, they're larger and blockier because they have less sophisticated components.  Compare plate armor to Kevlar.

 

Like I've said often, I'm a bigger fan of the clunkier Lucius-patterns in every way.  If I had entered 40K earlier (when the first Adeptus TItanicus Mars-pattern models were released) or later (when Forge World began releasing the 40K versions of them) this might be different.  I just fell into it at the right time.

[MithrilForge]

I like yours better the Mars looks as though if it did a full salvo with its upper weapons then the next image would be of it lying on its back with its legs wiggling like a bug

at least the Lucius looks like a Stable weapons platform

keep up the great work Princeps Commodus!

Mithril

[jeffersonian000]

Is that really a Lucius pattern? Kind of always thought that was the Proxima pattern. Was pretty sure the Lucius pattern was the one pictured a page or so back, in silver and black.

 

SJ

[Kilofix]

Hey Commodus, excuse the slight digression but I thought you might know:

 

1. Do you know which GW or IA Apoc book the old version of the Warlord rules can be found, and;

 

2. Do you know how much those rules differ from HH:Tempest?

 

And also, because I think of you as a subject matter expert of sorts on this:

 

3. Do you think there could exist a 'heavy' Maniple consisting of a Warlord and 2 Reavers with no Warhounds?

 

Thanks!

[CommodusXIII]

1.  You're looking for the first printing of Apocalypse, from back in 4th Edition.  Here's a copy of the entry alongside HH:Tempest.

 

2.  The week before the FW version was announced, I sat down and did my best to translate the old 4th Edition ruleset for use in 7th.  Here's my attempt - you'll see that it's incredibly close.

 

3.  Traditionally, Warlords walked alone or with a pair of Warhounds.  Reavers walked in pairs or with a pair of Warhounds.  This has been updated a bit with Honour to the Dead and Titanicus, both of which describe large forces of loyalist Titans working in close proximity.

 

I would say that it depends on the operation.  If your Legio is storming a city or engaging an enemy Legio, it would make sense to have backup for the Warlord in the form of lighter, more maneuverable engines.  Warhounds would be my first choice - this is what they're designed for - but Reavers would work just as well if you're facing a similar group of heavy engines.

 

One thing is for sure:  Titan Legios show as much variability in tactics and traditions as Space Marine Chapters.  You can justify almost anything with enough imagination!

[CommodusXIII]

The Omnissiah is smiling upon me, and is finally gifting me with a rain-free weekend.  Priming should start bright and early tomorrow!

 

http://i.imgur.com/K27EVX8l.jpg

 

I hacked together this painting platform out of some scrap particle board and a drain fitting. It will allow me to keep the torso upright without scraping on my table, while allowing me to spin it while working.

 

http://i.imgur.com/SNN7SqGl.jpg

 

I'm wrapping up a few side projects before priming. I settled on the final location for the warhorns and decided to magnetize them - this way, they're less likely to be torn off when moving the model around.

[CommodusXIII]

The weather held out - now it's a race to prime before the wife gets home!

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/LO2jmVBl.jpg

I always prime the underside first, which is less important and less likely to be seen. This way, the top and most visible areas get the best coat. The model was primed at the manufactorum in a light grey. First, I touched up a few areas of added detail with sandable auto primer (dark grey) - generally, the areas that will be painted metal.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ej7jzjrl.jpg

Next, I hit the armor with Army Painter Goblin Green primer. Metal may be a pain to paint over green, but green is a pain to paint over anything - so, I do this coat last to limit the amount of touch-ups.

 

http://i.imgur.com/WkMX35Xl.jpg

The auto primer goes on in a single coat. The green takes two. Once that dried, I flipped the torso over and repeated the process. The homemade painting stand is working great so far!

 

http://i.imgur.com/bLLvPJxl.jpg

A little bit of light sanding was required on the forehead and humps, due to the humidity that set in this afternoon. At least it's not raining! I'm going to leave the torso to sit overnight, and painting will begin first thing in the morning with metalwork on the arms and waist.

[Kilofix]

Btw, are you doing the edging on the main body?

 

I'm deciding if I should just do edging on mine or if I should do a camo pattern. There are just a lot of flat panels.

[CommodusXIII]

To a certain extent, yes. It should match the edging on the legs, but won't be as 'framed'. I'm also working on a combination of green and grey paneling that will hopefully break up the slab-sidedness.

[MithrilForge]

Great stuff commodus,

thanks for a look into your world of undercoating oh and by the way...the really important question is.. Who is? "your hometown pizza favorite"

Mithril

[CommodusXIII]

Gionino's has been supplying my weekend rations and priming platforms for years now. :p

[Kilofix]

Btw, hope you don't mind that I'm taking cues from your progress. My attempt at a Warlord is no where as good but I'm trailing along after you.

[CommodusXIII]

I don't mind at all!

 

I'll be very interested to see your work as well.  When I first started researching 40K-scale models I was torn between EnGen and the Titan Manufactorum.  I went with EnGen due to its aesthetics and construction, but there's a serious case to be made for the latter as well.  Yours is mostly high-density foam, right?  I'll bet that it's going to be much more tabletop-friendly...

 

EnGen focused on being as faithful to the original EPIC model as possible, and I'd say they succeeded.  Unfortunately, as I've shown throughout this thread that scaling-up resulted in a certain lack of detail.  What's nice about the TM model is that, while it took some necessary liberties with the design due to legal concerns, it certainly isn't lacking on topography.  While it still has the slab-sidedness of the Lucius pattern it's also covered in small details that bring it to life.

 

I'm also intrigued by their Colossus head.  I saw one pop up on eBay about a year ago, long before I started this project.  It's a bit late for me now, but it'd be interesting for anyone looking to do an interior as well.  Looks perfect for an amniotic casket!

[Kilofix]

Yeah my base model is TM. It is indeed high density foam with a plasticard + wood shell over the torso and the front leg plates. But the construction was quite bad when I received it. The parts, arms, head, legs were held together with wooden dowels that were 'spiked' through the inner foam of the two pieces to be connected. It really wouldn't stay together. In fact, the first time I put the torso on the lower, the knee dowels just tore through the foam, and it toppled over. I had to pin, add bolts and then JB weld to get everything to stay together. Now that that is done though it is pretty stable and I'm happy with it. I'm probably going to build up and add more detail to the arms though.

 

On a related note, I'm also getting EnGen to build me one of theirs, that I'll paint post-ETL.

 

So my Maniple will end up being 2 Lucius Warlords and 1 Reaver. Which is what Gearhart had in Titanicus (thanks for responding to my question about Maniples configs earlier). So I won't have Warhounds but I'll have 6 Knights to screen.

 

Probably won't ever field them all together on tabletop but it'll be cool to have fluff wise. Later, I'll probably leave one Warlord at my local GW, another Warlord at my LGS and keep the Reaver at home.

[Vel'Cona]

I love that of the Warlord Titans we're seeing lately, most seem to be scratchbuilds or custom ordered.  It shows that the 40k fanbase is still willing to think outside the box when building armies/models/terrain/background/etc.  Good times!

[CommodusXIII]

As far back as I can remember, 40K hobbyists have had the mentality of "if it doesn't exist, it must be created".  The Warlord Titan may be one of the most impressive examples, but this can be found everywhere - at least, until recently.  GW began to push a couple years ago to rid their books of rulesets without models.  While there's still a lot of creativity in scratchbuilding and kitbashing, the necessity of this was a major driving factor in previous Editions.

 

An example I like to use is the Black Templars Emperor's Champion. When I joined the hobby, this was a mandatory unit for the army.  The only official model was the limited edition 25th Anniversary model.  This was in the early days of eBay, so if you wanted to play Black Templars you had to build your own.  It was a rite of passage of sorts.

 

Another is the Thunderhawk.  Relatively new players might be surprised how many oldtimers lovingly crafted these beasts out of plasticard and foamcore, even though they didn't have any rules.  They existed in the fluff and in our minds, so their creation was a necessity.

 

This is why I'm very glad that people like Blackadder are keeping the old traditions alive.  That's the true spirit of the hobby.

[Vel'Cona]

I've always wanted a Thunderhawk, TBH. I'll always be a Blood Angel at heart, and the pic in the back of the 3rd edition codex of this guy's complete BA army with a scratch-built Thunderhawk is absolutely ingrained in my memory. Since FW has decided these are only for the most disposable of incomes, I'm guessing the only way I'll ever have one is if I build it myself. Some day . . .

[CommodusXIII]

As with priming, I started painting the torso by focusing on the underside.  I also tried to get as many small details out of the way as possible.  Hopefully this will make the rest of the project pass much smoother.

 

http://i.imgur.com/tevYdpVl.jpg

 

After the initial metalwork, I added the first couple coats for the grey paneling. It brushes on very well, and went much quicker than anticipated!

 

http://i.imgur.com/RIcZKR6l.jpg

 

I've moved onto the white, which took many more coats than the grey. This includes the chest icon, spotlights and windows, the latter of which will be colored in after the final wash.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Kl5Qs6rl.jpg

 

After a bit more detail work around the side turret mounts, the torso was ready to be flipped. I'm on the home stretch!

[CommodusXIII]

There's not much to show this week:

 

http://i.imgur.com/LXFcfpll.jpg

 

The initial metalwork, trim and paneling has been completed for the upper torso. This component is much more unwieldy than the legs and arms, so there's quite a bit of overpainting. The next couple weeks will be spent cleaning it up, one area at a time.

[Vel'Cona]

Do you think you'll be on track for ETL, though?