marshall Egregorius Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Considering a full salvo at BS5 puts out 12 wounds on T5+, they really are something against those sort of units. Bikers will cry. Are you talking naked vanguard, or referencing the IG plasma blob i was speaking about? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4032693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Naked seems to be the optimal route here. After realising the cost I think I'd only ever put Plasma in the Warlord's squad (assuming mono skit) or in an allied drop pod, that is filthy alpha strike for the points, but foot slogging not so much. The weapons are cool but I suppose overall inefficient? I'm not sure "optimal" is true; as with most things it depends on the situation. For example, if you have second turn and you've only bought naked Vanguard to support your Onagers, then those Onagers are not going to last long. However, if you give your opponent a viable conundrum with potential targets (such as Scouting Plasma Vanguard vs Base Onager) then he has to make a decision. There's certainly a place for a blob of naked Vanguard (that sounds hideous if taken of context, btw), but it isn't a one-size fits all answer. the flaw in your asessment is that you could just take more onegar if you don't upgrade the vanguards making your ranger/ vanguard even more effective as there not going to get focussed on. There's a lot more that can kill your skitarii then your onager anyway. That's not a flaw in my point, it's a different option. There are more weapons that can kill the Skitarii than an Onager, sure, but a unit of 10 Vanguard can't die to a single Las-Cannon shot. If you want to naked Vanguard, then go for it, but that is far from the only option, and probably not the best one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4032752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshall Egregorius Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Naked seems to be the optimal route here. After realising the cost I think I'd only ever put Plasma in the Warlord's squad (assuming mono skit) or in an allied drop pod, that is filthy alpha strike for the points, but foot slogging not so much. The weapons are cool but I suppose overall inefficient? I'm not sure "optimal" is true; as with most things it depends on the situation. For example, if you have second turn and you've only bought naked Vanguard to support your Onagers, then those Onagers are not going to last long. However, if you give your opponent a viable conundrum with potential targets (such as Scouting Plasma Vanguard vs Base Onager) then he has to make a decision. There's certainly a place for a blob of naked Vanguard (that sounds hideous if taken of context, btw), but it isn't a one-size fits all answer. the flaw in your asessment is that you could just take more onegar if you don't upgrade the vanguards making your ranger/ vanguard even more effective as there not going to get focussed on. There's a lot more that can kill your skitarii then your onager anyway. That's not a flaw in my point, it's a different option. There are more weapons that can kill the Skitarii than an Onager, sure, but a unit of 10 Vanguard can't die to a single Las-Cannon shot. If you want to naked Vanguard, then go for it, but that is far from the only option, and probably not the best one. We have 8 troops choices to work with if using the FOC maniple chart. Easily enough for one squad each of rangers and vanguard to be naked and be weight-of-fire support. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4032759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The fact that there are enough arguments to be made for going in either direction means that GW has done a good job releasing these multi-kits from a rules perspective, since we can't seem to reach a consensus on a static "build" for them. Some can argue for Plasma Calivers, some can argue for Arc Rifles, and the no-equip method definitely has its strengths, too. Honestly, I think the Vanguard are a line infantry unit that can fill a large number of tactical roles depending on what you need, and I think their role will only expand when Cult Mechanicus lands and gives us another set of possible allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4032809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshall Egregorius Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The fact that there are enough arguments to be made for going in either direction means that GW has done a good job releasing these multi-kits from a rules perspective, since we can't seem to reach a consensus on a static "build" for them. Some can argue for Plasma Calivers, some can argue for Arc Rifles, and the no-equip method definitely has its strengths, too. Honestly, I think the Vanguard are a line infantry unit that can fill a large number of tactical roles depending on what you need, and I think their role will only expand when Cult Mechanicus lands and gives us another set of possible allies. Furthermore, who knows if there is a combi-dex sometime in the future. But yes GW has done a good job creating options that we can use to synergistic combo's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4032819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Considering a full salvo at BS5 puts out 12 wounds on T5+, they really are something against those sort of units. Bikers will cry. Are you talking naked vanguard, or referencing the IG plasma blob i was speaking about? Naked Vanguard. 30 shots, BS5 (with minimum Doctrine) mean 5/6 hits, so 24, you wound T5+ on a 6+ so that's 4, turned into 8 with Rad Poisoning. Unsure why i said 12, think i was too busy reading the forum and mathhammering :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4033106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshall Egregorius Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 8 wounds isn't bad, statistically taking out half of a demi/5 man squad of sternguard barring shenanigans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4033132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heron Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have used naked ranger squads very effectively, haven't tried vanguards w/o arc rifles yet, but my experiences with their basic gun have me agreeing with the thinking that they are pretty solid on their own. I think the Omnispex is vital, and I have also packed a power sword on the leader for a surprise when they get charged. I have had really good luck with Arquebuss though in a six man ranger squad with 2x TA's. Most turns we were shooting things within 30" so the range difference did not matter- however, sometimes the 60" was excellent, and allowed me to take out light vehicles like a landspeeder without much trouble. Since they were camping out on a backfield ruin the whole game, I thought the versatility to extend to 60" was very useful... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4033285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well said. Maybe I'll have to give them another chance! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307159-naked-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-4033563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.