Prot Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Just playing devil's advocate here.... Now I know this is just a rumour, but if it's accurate we are hearing the new Codex Astartes will feature changes to fielding vehicles (as in squadrons vs singles), and this makes economic sense to GW.... But the beef of the rumour is command variants available in the form of a Landraider option and a rhino option. So the conversation here is typically against Landraiders, and we know why... it's echoed every week; they're too expensive, they die too easily, they don't put out damage....etc, etc. I was thinking of why you'll see Dark Angel players take Landraiders. It's because of access to the powerfield generator, which is a small field, typically held by a Techmarine or Libby biker, giving the Landraider (sometimes 2!) a 4+ invuln. Let's say as a Grey Knight player you have access to a 4+ invuln 'command' Landraider at ... 10 points more than your current landraider options: +++ Would this be enough to make you take a Landraider in a competitive game? (IE: Tournament) +++ Would this just be enough to make you take a Landraider in fun games? +++ If yes, to either of the above, which variant would you choose and what would you stuff in it? +++ If no to all the above, what is your reasoning? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307300-what-if-a-command-lr-had-an-invulnerable-save/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 In fun games? Maybe. Competitive? Not really. Land Raider with shield would be, what, 260+ points? That's kinda steep for something with offensive output of 130+ points tank, granted, none of them are transports, but Nemesis Strike mitigates this to large degree. What you'd prefer, Land Raider, or extra unit of Terminators with Psycannon plus Razorback for TL Lascannon goodness (alternatively, 2 more DK far outpacing LR gun output, too)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307300-what-if-a-command-lr-had-an-invulnerable-save/#findComment-4035341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Not really. I think LR's are overpriced actually. I'd much rather a downgrade to 200pts, than making them more expensive with a 4+ invul. Cheaper is better than defensive tech normally. GW need to decide what LR's are actually for. If they're gonna make them assault transports, they need to streamline their rules that way. Ie, upgraded transport capacity on all variants, close-range weapons etc. Some of the variants do this but they're kinda overpriced all the same. If they're gonna be fire support that also holds cargo, their guns need an upgrade. Two lascannons is pathetic from a 250pt investment. The LRC is the only one I think that shoots and does its job well, and it still needs to come down to 200pts. Ceramite Plating needs to be an upgrade to LR's again. It's kinda crazy how Ravens have it, and yet they're the ones least in need of it (Ravens die to massed S7 normally anyway, not meltaguns which can't Skyfire for the most part). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307300-what-if-a-command-lr-had-an-invulnerable-save/#findComment-4035676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Ceramite plating upgrade for a few points (which would be mandatory) and.... just more hullpoints? Dying to glances is an alright concept but everything has so few hullpoints they just pop so quickly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307300-what-if-a-command-lr-had-an-invulnerable-save/#findComment-4036716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I wouldn't use one, I actually have a very poorly constructed one and I won a brand new one a while back, instantly sold the new one instead of replacing my crappy broken raider. They're just never worth it. And I never take them. Too expensive and not that good as a gun platform, so you use it as an assault vehicle, run it up the board, and either get shot to death or since you're trying to get into charge range, you also get charged to death by anything capable of doing so... It most definitely needs a points drop, closer to a stormraven in price to create better balance. Or a 200pts variant with absolutely no guns but has fire points. That would be awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307300-what-if-a-command-lr-had-an-invulnerable-save/#findComment-4036920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Ceramite plating upgrade for a few points (which would be mandatory) and.... just more hullpoints? Dying to glances is an alright concept but everything has so few hullpoints they just pop so quickly I'd make it like 10-15 points. It's a pretty significant hard-counter, it's why the Achilles is so widely hated and banned at most tourneys (because Eldar players moan they can't point and click their lance weapons...it's still massively overpriced). I think HP4 is fine. HP5+ is kinda the realm of Super-Heavies (ie the old Structure Points system). Hull Points are the cancer that is killing 40k mech though. I'd personally fire them, RCD and Salvo rules into the heart of the sun, along with the people who came up with them. But, they're gonna be a thing going forward sadly (rather like D-weapon proliferation). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307300-what-if-a-command-lr-had-an-invulnerable-save/#findComment-4036974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Ceramite should be an option. Spartans in lore are weaker then land raiders yet have double the weapons, 5 hull points 25 space capacity ceramite and just 45 points more then a regular land raider. Raiders need a huge fix Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307300-what-if-a-command-lr-had-an-invulnerable-save/#findComment-4037336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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