Transuranic Arquebus

[Frater Cornelius]

There has been a lot of back and forth about this gun. The ones swear by it while the others condemn it. However, most discussions got lost between Arc Rifles and other things.

I want this thread to be dedicated to the Arquebus so that we can get a clear picture with first hand experiences and tactics.

 

Discuss ;)

[CommodusXIII]

Great for picking off MEQ specialists, characters and other blob-buffers, which is what I need it for. Alright for dealing with light vehicles. Not very good for much else.

[shandwen]

It is:

-costly (makes for a couple very expensive models)

-irreliable (you should hit often, but if it actually wounds/penetrates is up in the air)

-a mono build squad (any squad that takes one will need to hug cover and stay at long range to earn their keep)

-a threat (after yiu have one good game with these guys they will attract attention...)

[Brother Amarel]

2 in a unit of 5 Rangers with a Refractor Field on the Alpha and an Omnispex is my preferred choice. There isn't always a huge amount for them to do, but against certain targets they're gold. I planned to run two of these units, but have so far only fielded one.

[Vash]

It is:

-costly (makes for a couple very expensive models)

-irreliable (you should hit often, but if it actually wounds/penetrates is up in the air)

-a mono build squad (any squad that takes one will need to hug cover and stay at long range to earn their keep)

-a threat (after yiu have one good game with these guys they will attract attention...)

Agree with this statement. 

Used a ranger squad my self with TA. 

All of these points were proven. 

 

What bothers me the most, is that huge cost and the 4+ to wound. It really narrows it self down to high toughness targets to be worth it. 

 

But considering what it "can" do, the price is right I guess. Versus a Space Marine bike army it will do wonders. MCs won't like it. 

Anyhow, those points saved is enough for more bodies and more shots. 

[Father Mehman]

I love the Arquebus! If/When I play again, there will be two with my Rangers at all times. The psychological terror they would cause in my former gaming group would be worth it and, hey, Vanguard need to be covered.

A little luck on the dice and down go those pesky Plague Marine Bikers !

Here's a question about the Arquebus: since it has Armourbane, am I right to assume it could penetrate medium armour (AV12/13)? The way it looks to me, the weapon has S4 since it's a Sniper, and then I roll for Armour Penetration. Say the roll turns out to be a 5- so that equals a 9 for Armour Penetration. Utilizing the Armourbane, I then roll another 5 and add that to the previous and get 14. Am I doing this right?

[shandwen]

Yes, you will roll two dice for penetration. The problem is that a total of 11 is the statistical average, so to pen anything other than av 10 or 11 will require multiple guns, and with only ap3 it isn't going to do all that well against anything other than dark eldar.

[Vash]

Against vehicles I think its a funky weapon. As with infantry, it is unreliable. Shooting with your two TA at a vehicle is a huge risk. I would only do that if no other options are available. 

 

As noted, against nurgle bikers they are really nice, but then again... I do not fight against nurgle bikers that often. So for me its a no go still on the TA. 

[BassWave]

The TA should have fleshbane, because a depleted uranium round shouldn't wound a normal human being only half the time.

[Leif Bearclaw]

The TA should have fleshbane, because a depleted uranium round shouldn't wound a normal human being only half the time.

If you're going by that logic, all sniper weapons should be fleshbane, and not only sniper. Pretty much all weapons in this game are easier to shrug off than they 'should' be (even a plasma gun leaves a Grot alive 1/6 of the time). Picking on a single example isn't really fair when it's a system-wide quirk of 40k being a game.

[Battybattybats]

Modelling question.
Do any of the other bodies neatly fit the Arquebus arms?
We have two bodies that are posited in the instructions as working with the arc and plasma, but only one shown used with the TA. Has anyone found others which also work with it without fuss?

[Vash]

Modelling question.

Do any of the other bodies neatly fit the Arquebus arms?

We have two bodies that are posited in the instructions as working with the arc and plasma, but only one shown used with the TA. Has anyone found others which also work with it without fuss?

 

I have used another body for the TA. Some minor cutting to make it fit perfectly is all that is needed, or slightly more than normal plastic glue will hold the parts together. 

[Brother Amarel]

Modelling question.

Do any of the other bodies neatly fit the Arquebus arms?

We have two bodies that are posited in the instructions as working with the arc and plasma, but only one shown used with the TA. Has anyone found others which also work with it without fuss?

I've used a second body with a similar pose, but it's a little lower so there was a little green stuff needed to fill a gap around the top of the right shoulder pad.

[Frater Cornelius]

I dislike the original model. I would give the guy a sniper rifle he can hold on his own and on the front of the base I will place a servo skull spotter, so that it can be mounted on an appropriate base.

[Vel'Cona]

I wanted to like TAs, and I even painted one up in my first set of Rangers.  The problem I'm seeing with them is the 50/50 nature of their To Wound roll.  Yeah, you can make them hit on a 2+ (with re-rolls even) pretty easily, but that doesn't help the wound roll or the AP3.  Frankly, AP3 and 4+2d6 armor pen just isn't good enough for 25 points; it's essentially a longer ranged Krak Missile that costs 10 points more!

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're useless.  But if you look at the other 'dex options, you start to see the failings:

 

a.  5 Rangers, 2 TA vs:

b.  2 Ballistarii

c.  1 Onager Dunecrawler w/ Twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blaster

 

All of these options are roughly the same cost (give or take 10 points).  The Rangers throw 2 shots that hit on 3's (or better), wound on 4's, and have AP3.  Against vehicles, you're look at an average armor penetration roll of 10-12, with no modifiers to the damage roll.  The Ballistarii have 4 shots that hit on 3's (or better) and are twin-linked, with average penetration rolls of 10-11.  This makes them a little better for whittling down your average transport, but they don't have the high end chance to penetrate anything with AV14 like the TA does (however unlikely that is).  Finally, the Onager has 3 shots that hit on 3's (or better), are twin-linked, and have average penetration of 9-10 (not great).  Against vehicles this is pretty awful, but it's much better against MEQ and has the Luminagen bonuses.  All of these units can move and fire, but the Ballistarii wins out for mobility and the Rangers for total threat range (60" range + 6" move).  The Onager is probably the most durable of the 3, but only just.

 

My takeaway from this is that the Rangers with TA aren't necessarily awful, but for the same cost you can get tougher/more mobile units that aren't as dependent on wound rolls or highly random armor penetration rolls.  If they were ObjSec or the Arc Rifle didn't exist, they might be more useful, but pound for pound you're probably better off with other special weapons (or none at all, as the case may be).

[BassWave]

 

 

The TA should have fleshbane, because a depleted uranium round shouldn't wound a normal human being only half the time.

If you're going by that logic, all sniper weapons should be fleshbane, and not only sniper. Pretty much all weapons in this game are easier to shrug off than they 'should' be (even a plasma gun leaves a Grot alive 1/6 of the time). Picking on a single example isn't really fair when it's a system-wide quirk of 40k being a game.

It really isn't unfair. The kind of logic I used wa used for the Vindicare's weapon. Most other sniper weapons aren't as powerful because they are laser based. However, if an ammo type penetrates lightly armored vehicles on average, they should have the same chance or better on biological targets. Otherwise, the weapon should be 15 points cheaper.

 

Also, rolling 1s to wound is supposed to represent luck on the targets behalf. It happens in the real world too. Theres plenty of examples of where a soldier should have died from a fatal shot, but they survived and kicked ass.

[MithrilForge]

I wanted to like TAs, and I even painted one up in my first set of Rangers. The problem I'm seeing with them is the 50/50 nature of their To Wound roll. Yeah, you can make them hit on a 2+ (with re-rolls even) pretty easily, but that doesn't help the wound roll or the AP3. Frankly, AP3 and 4+2d6 armor pen just isn't good enough for 25 points; it's essentially a longer ranged Krak Missile that costs 10 points more!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're useless. But if you look at the other 'dex options, you start to see the failings:

a. 5 Rangers, 2 TA vs:

b. 2 Ballistarii

c. 1 Onager Dunecrawler w/ Twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blaster

All of these options are roughly the same cost (give or take 10 points). The Rangers throw 2 shots that hit on 3's (or better), wound on 4's, and have AP3. Against vehicles, you're look at an average armor penetration roll of 10-12, with no modifiers to the damage roll. The Ballistarii have 4 shots that hit on 3's (or better) and are twin-linked, with average penetration rolls of 10-11. This makes them a little better for whittling down your average transport, but they don't have the high end chance to penetrate anything with AV14 like the TA does (however unlikely that is). Finally, the Onager has 3 shots that hit on 3's (or better), are twin-linked, and have average penetration of 9-10 (not great). Against vehicles this is pretty awful, but it's much better against MEQ and has the Luminagen bonuses. All of these units can move and fire, but the Ballistarii wins out for mobility and the Rangers for total threat range (60" range + 6" move). The Onager is probably the most durable of the 3, but only just.

My takeaway from this is that the Rangers with TA aren't necessarily awful, but for the same cost you can get tougher/more mobile units that aren't as dependent on wound rolls or highly random armor penetration rolls. If they were ObjSec or the Arc Rifle didn't exist, they might be more useful, but pound for pound you're probably better off with other special weapons (or none at all, as the case may be).

Yeah your logic here is NOT flawed..i'll be using my guys in a few games very soon & will try to utilize my TA as much as possible to get some ++Hard Data++ cause we can banter around lots and Math-hammer it til the cows come home(i'm not disputing your post in any way) but really playing with them is the only true way of knowing..my gaming environment and opposite armies will be different to yours and Vash's and many others, i hope to be able to put my 2 cents worth into this soon enough... and that will help my ETL IV vow too as well (2 heretics with one cog). i'm hoping to use a Min max unit as sniper threat..lets see how it plays out...

Mithril

Edit -spelling

[marshall Egregorius]

Everything has it's use. the effiecient balance of TA's to other weapons is the key.

[Vel'Cona]

It's a good point about meta/common opponents predicting army success; I think the TA is probably the least meta-friendly of the three special weapons, but I certainly wouldn't say that it doesn't have a place.  I'd say a double TA Ranger squad would probably be the best option to use them, since it keeps the unit reasonably cheap and takes the most advantage of their long range.  3 TA in a 10 man unit is a bit overkill, though (IMO).

[Charlo]

I think they will work with a couple of them camping with MSU. If you have bigger threats (Knights, Onagers, Balistarii) they won't attract attention until they start dealing damage. Skitarii is a sum of it's parts army I think.

[Frater Cornelius]

Like cogs in a machine ;)

[mmimzie]

Like cogs in a machine

haha they are definitly like cogs. I actualy think the skit armor works quite lovely with itself. It does have a lot of answers for so few units.

[Vel'Cona]

And that's all before considering their synergy with AdMech-friendly codices, like Blood Angels, Imperial Knights, and the upcoming Cult Mechanicus!  What's nice is Skitarii have a very low buy-in cost to get their best units (2 Troops), and the units you have to get are very flexible thanks to solid wargear and reasonable cost.  It's just too bad we can't get ObjSec, eh?

[Charlo]

And that's all before considering their synergy with AdMech-friendly codices, like Blood Angels, Imperial Knights, and the upcoming Cult Mechanicus! What's nice is Skitarii have a very low buy-in cost to get their best units (2 Troops), and the units you have to get are very flexible thanks to solid wargear and reasonable cost. It's just too bad we can't get ObjSec, eh?

That's what scouts and a cheap Sang Priest are for, more FNP and objective campers :P

 

But yeah, very large application for a small set of tools. Perfect ad allies, soon to probably complemented by cult!

[Father Mehman]

Ad Mech: the crowbar of the Imperium!