southpawgrammar Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 http://gavthorpe.co.uk/2015/09/23/more-dark-angels-secrets-revealed/ Mr Thorpe answer questions about the Dark Angels and his up and coming book, Angels of Caliban. The first question addresses Nemiels death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4312756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Is this the interesting part yet? The last two were really hard to read on account of being snoozefests Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4312873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 The Dark Angels are my favorite loyalists but I have to admit that I was very disappointed by their HH books. Granted not all legions can have AD-B or Abnett to write them but I find that the Dark Angels really deserved a better author. The first book was not that bad but the second one was sleeping material. I prefer the novellas and short stories where the Dark Angels feature, especially when fighting Night Lords and some of those books are awesome material both for inspiration (the Lion beheading one of his own chaplains was a high mark for me and plenty of evidence for his indomitable character) but I have little to no hope for this one to be worth much. The Dark Angels were IMO always one of those legions which demanded a superb wordsmith to be credible, awesome and integral to the Imperium but at the same time worthy of the accolade as the first-born, as the one and only knights. Sadly this was not the case but who knows, maybe, just maybe some justice will be done to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4312899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I enjoyed the short stories with lion v curze and that sheng guy etc, that was interesting, even the little bit in unremembered empire was more interesting than the whole Dark Angels last book. Or that astellan one. Sadly I don't think Itl pull off a betrayer of vengeful spirit vibe..just more paddling to get through to terra..'this guy fell over' and he gets a 3 page description about how a rock reminds him of his home on caliban' but just times that by a company, so 'another guy looks at the sky'..and it reminds him of caliban etc etc.. unless it's the battle of caliban, I probably won't be interested in it tbh. I just skip the books now that don't interest me and jump to the juicy ones like the above mentioned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4312936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Gav's answer on Nemiel makes perfect sense and I would be totally fine with it if the Lion hadn't Judo-chopped his head off. Going into a rage and bludgeoning him repeatedly would have been better. Anyway, very mixed feelings about the book at the moment. Excited and nervous. Expect the worse and hope for the best, I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4312995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I've not read much heresy but am looking to see the DA in some cool stories. Seems like they don't really exist yet though :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4313776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Savage Weapons, Prince of Crows, and Unremebered Empire all handles the Lion/the DA quite well Note that none of the above works are by Thorpe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4313781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I'm undecided atm. On the one hand The Lion bored me, but then again, I read that pretty much straight after Savage Weapons so a comparison was never going to be favourable. On the other hand, the Unforgiven 40k series is pretty decent, as in I managed to read them and not cave to despair ala Deliverance Lost or Deathfire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Assist Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Time travelling Cypher is either going to work very well or very badly... Was underwhelmed by his portrayal in the Unforgiven books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I read Gav's reasons for unceremoniously offing Nemiel. Classic case of decent concept executed poorly by a subpar writer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I can't wait. I love Gav's passion for the Dark angels. It'll be fantastic to see him with a full heresy novel about them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I read Gav's reasons for unceremoniously offing Nemiel. Classic case of decent concept executed poorly by a subpar writer That's how I felt after reading that - but again, for him to off a major DA character that he didn't start writing with and died in seconds left a bad taste in my mouth. I'll try to stay unbiased and see how it turns out. The cover art is sick though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 The idea that the Lion's civilisation is a mask (for those of you familiar with Forgotten Realms...sort of like Drizzt's Hunter persona) is great Judo-chopping Nemiel's head off is not the best way to show that. IMHO, a fight with Curze in which the Lion loses control would be more effective Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Honestly, when Nemiel died what ran through my head was: What the hell, was there really a need for that? Then I tried to figure out why a character built up that much would be removed from the series. I thought that the reason was because Gav wanted to get across that anyone could die, yeah that's a good way to kill off a character (I wish they did it to Dantioch during UE) But then we get to the manner of his death. Chopping the head off of your chaplain because he wont back down because of the Orders of the Emperor. Absolutely ridiculous, It put me off Dark Angels in the Heresy. Now I have read this quote from Gav, I probably wont continue with the arc. It does not help that Nemiel was killed in an anthology rather than an Actual book. It just seems to me Gav chucked Nemiels death in to fill a hole early in the series rather than using him for a much higher and better confrontation later in the series with Zahariel, even if it was to show the Lion as still the beast hiding behind that mask. In the end, it just really looks like poor writing to me, I can see what he wants to do, I can understand why he would apply the traits to the Lion as it would make a more interesting character, but alongside the Appearance in UE it just does not work in my eyes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Great points Cthonia. Brother turning against brother, father against son is what the Heresy is about thematically IMO. I would have loved that kind of confrontation. Instead we got the head chopping, the Lion looking momentarily remorseful and then nothing except a small blurb about it in By the Lion's command. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 The idea that the Lion's civilisation is a mask (for those of you familiar with Forgotten Realms...sort of like Drizzt's Hunter persona) is great Judo-chopping Nemiel's head off is not the best way to show that. IMHO, a fight with Curze in which the Lion loses control would be more effective Agreed. Honestly I was in denial during that whole story, and at the end, I was like "where's Nemiel?" Then I was like, "oh yeah, the Lion did some karate chop action." Then I went like, "Nah, that's just humorous and outlandish in the extreme. That couldn't have happened." :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 For lack of a better word...The Lion was Thorpe's attempt at being "edgy" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary Pallas Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 For lack of a better word...The Lion was Thorpe's attempt at being "edgy" Must. Resist. Urge to. Make a "Shadow the edgehog" joke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307418-upcoming-hh-novel-angels-of-caliban/page/2/#findComment-4314786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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