Raven Guard 2k - Pride + Corax

[GreyCrow]

EDIT : New list posted in Post #4 (old list in post #1 for reference !)

Hello guys !

So, I'm a total noob with the Horus Heresy, and I plan to start a collection in the near future but I'd like to get a sense of where I'm going before hand ! So far, I'm hesitating between the Raven Guard (my favourite 40k force so far) and the Ultramarines (love the legion too, and I'm just waiting for more information on the rules in the near future).

Based on the rules and the theorycraft, I was thinking about having a very flexible army list with multiple deployment options thanks to Infiltrate, Drop Pods and Deep Strike. With units that are able both to get an Alpha Strike or to hold back until the time is right. Especially Maun, I wanted to be able to either hold him in Reserve or deploy him on the board, depending on whether I need an early pod entry or a later game flier drop.

Ideally, I wanted to include Corax at 2000 points, but I guess I'll wait until 2500 points ^^

The folks in the Raven Guard Tactica highly recommended Maun as a Praetor and they're on to something for sure !

Here's the list :

Strike Captain Alvarex Maun + Cameleoline - 145 points (ROW - Decapitating Strike)

Tactical Squad - 10 Marines + Legion Drop Pod - 185 points

Assault Squad - 10 Marines + 3 Power Swords + 10 Meltaboms - 345 points

Contemptor - 2 DCCW with Plasma Blasters + Dreadnought Drop Pod - 280 points

10 Mor Deythan - 5 combi-flamers, 5 combi-meltas - 295 points

(Darkwing Storm Eagle Dedicated transport + armoured ceramite - 295 points)

5 Dark Furies - 4 extra Raven's Talons - 215 points

5 Seekers - 5 Combi-Plasma - 225 points

Thanks for C&C !

[Nusquam]

I would recommend dropping the Seekers to give the Furies more marines or the other way around and give the Seekers a transport+more marines. In 30k marines can die in droves and smaller threatening units are usually shot-off quickly if there's not threat saturation or they don't have some sort of evasion through deployment or transports.

 

I would also drop the AC on the Darkwing. Melta is very rare in 30k. Even if you're playing 40k it will be flying and jinking.

 

Where is Maun going? The only units he can viably fit in with are the Mor Deythan and Seekers. The former already have stealth and the latter, see above, is lacking in numbers. Mor Deythan outclass Seekers in almost every way, while being cheaper, but one key tactic; Seekers can take a Drop pod as a transport. Seekers in a pod have net me First Blood in 99% of my games. When you have multiple units coming down in pods it makes them even better because you can control when they come in(thanks Maun), especially with a Double Grav Dread. They combo well with Seekers to crack transports or bait units. If you give the Seekers the Tacs pod, you can Infiltrate Maun and the tac squad into a good position to take advantage of his 18" bubble for the incoming pods. You can even deepstrike the Darkwing within it.

 

Alternatively you can trade the Seekers for Mor Deythan in a rhino. Infiltrate+scout 12"+move 6"+disembark 6" makes it so they can Alpha Strike most of the board with ease on turn one.

 

As for the AMs they will be a priority target for your opponent due to those meltabombs. I would drop the bombs to make them less a juicy target. rapier batteries, Havocs, deredeos etc are popular. When you could have infiltrated 15 Tacs with an Apothecary and Augery Scanner for the price of 10 AMs, for example, it makes it really hard to justify the use of them. Especially when you could use those points for more Furies. But if you are going to use them I recommend keeping them cheap and a low priority target. Use them to get far objectives or flank heavy weapons teams. The swords aren't a bad option, but both them and MBs splits their use between AP and AT and makes an already expensive/points inefficient unit more expensive. In 30k, optimizing a unit for a single role is even more crucial. Very few units can get away with having multiple roles, Mor Deythan are one of them. If you're playing 40k its even worse; 30k doesn't really catch up to 40ks points efficiency until 2.5k, before then you're at a disadvantage, then you tack on AMs... If you want them because you enjoy them but want them to perform, keep them cheap and keep the pressure up with other units to make them a low priority for your opponent. Plus AT in CC isn't very effective comparably to the great shooting 30k has to offer.

 

Also what's the meta you play in?

[GreyCrow]

Thanks for the comments Nusquam !

 

So, regarding the Furies, the idea was to either use them as a counter assault unit biding its time by deploying them out of line of sight on the board and have a rapid reaction team should an enemy unit get cocky, either to use them aggressively via Deep Strike, but always dropping them out of line of sight. The logic was that Maun's no scatter bubble would allow me to place them optimally where they can't be seen in the turn they arrive (and use their innate cover only in the case that line of sight can be drawn), then move about in the second turn after they arrived.

The idea was that because of Furious Charge and +1 Init when they charge, I wouldn't need to use more than 5, which is why I kept the squad low :)

 

Like you said, Maun would either go with the Seekers or with the Mor Deythan, either deployed on the board or in the Storm Eagle depending on which is preferable. I see him a lot more with the Mor Deythans than the Seekers, however. The role of the Seekers (hence why I kept them at 5 men) compared to another squad of Mor Deythan was to provide annoying sustained fire support at range against a specific target, while the Mor Deythan would act as the high damage for one turn, either from Infiltrate, either from the Darkwing.

Infiltrated if I could get away with this Turn 2, or in the Darkwing for priority targets deep in the enemy lines in Turn 2 (after part of his army has advanced up so there's less return fire to worry about).

The only reason I didn't put them in a Pod was that I felt I missed Infiltrate and Scout with them and because I saw them more as a ranged unit, I didn't really feel the need for Pods. Mor Deythans would be the guys I would aim for first blood with if I had the choice.

 

You make a really good case for the Assault Marines. I do like them and I feel they're iconic to the Raven Guard, which is why I added them in :) After what you said and much consideration however, they're not worth their points when geared for CC compared to the awesome Dark Furies. I'll actually switch the 3 Power Swords for 3 Plasma Pistols which I feel will get more mileage in games and give a bit more reach to that squad.

The only reason (and that's a good transition to your next question) I equipped them with Melta Bombs is because my meta is very Spartan Heavy, and they all are quipped with flare shields and armoured ceramite. They like to use them as a transport for high value, high damage output assault units, like Red Butchers, etc. I don't know a single Heresy player that doesn't have both a Spartan and melee death star in their lists.

The flare shield was what would give trouble to my list and what drove me to put the melta bombs on the Assault Marines. It's purely a last resort upgrade than dedicated anti-tank, and 10 meltabombs would negate both the Flare Shield (being melee) and the Armoured Ceramite (being Armourbane). Obviously they'd be collateral damage from explosions, but if I could negate the mobility and protection of their deathstars, then it would probably be worth scarificing a few assault marines in my humble opinion (but even then, I'd lose a scoring unit which isn't good either).

 

I don't know much of my meta as I've only observed a few Apocalypse games with lots of players, but the common sights include :

- 20 men tacticals with Apothecary

- 5-10 men Plasma support squads

- 10 men heavy support squads

- Spartans, then Land Raiders

- Terminator armour Legion melee deathstars

- Primarchs

 

That about covers the meta :p

[GreyCrow]

So, after the great insights given by the fellow Raven Guard players, I've decided to take on a completely different approach and I'm posting here for comments and critics !

Still deciding how to get in Heresy, so far I'm leaning towards Pride of the Legion Rites of War (both for diminished model count keeping prices down and also as a personal challenge !). Being a huge fan of the shattered RG Legion post Istvaan and quite liking Agapito Nev in the different novels, I was thinking about making an Istvaan Veterans army and because I really want to play with a Primarch, the idea was to aim for a 2k points army with the Primarch

I also really like the idea of the Deliverer Terminators in the Raven Guard fluff. They're an unexpected unit in Raven Guard lists, but I was thinking they would work well mounted on a Darkwing. Especially with the Cataphractii armour which is a bit unexpected for Raven Guard Terminators (although the fluff pits the Deliverers with Cataphractii despite the picture showing a Tartaros armour) !

Without further waiting, here's the list :

Lord of War (Warlord, Pride of the Legion)

Corvus Corax - 450 points

Praetor - Iron Halo, Plasma Pistol, Paragon Blade - 170 points

10 Legion Veterans - Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, Plasma Pistol, Vexilla - 265 points

5 Terminators - Sergeant with Lightning Claw, 2 Lightning Claw, Plasma Blaster, Chainfist - 215 points

5 Support Tacticals - 5 Volkite Calivers - 125 points

5 Mor Deythan - Shade with Volkite Charger, 4 combi-Flamers - 160 points

Rapier Battery - Laser Destroyer - 55 points

Rapier Battery - Thudd Gun - 60 points

5 Dark Furies - 175 points

Darkwing - 275 points

Total - 1950 points

_____

So, the idea was to let the Veteran use Sniper of Tank Hunters depending on whether the enemy is infantry heavy. Praetor would go with them to give them Stealth and a bit more melee punch for midfield combat. I'm excluding Fearless because of Ld10 and the Vexilla which should make them okay for most moral checks !

The Volkite Caliver support squad might be surprising, but it was mainly to have a long range scoring unit which the other are not. 2 Rapiers for more long range Dakka and Infiltrating the Thudd Gun will diminish the issue of 36" range for the "Krak" shells.

In most cases, the Terminators will go in the Darkwing for daring assaults in the enemy DZ thanks to being Scoring and the Cataphractii should keep them safe for a while. In other cases, my Mor Deythans would go in the Darkwing in case they wouldn't work well Infiltrated.

Corax will do what Corax best does, which is wreck most things that get too close !

C&C very much appreciated !

[Nusquam]

I would switch out the laser destroyer rapier for another thuddgun. You'll get a lot more mileage out of two. I find the destroyer wanting when compared to the shatter/frag shells of the thuddgun and the haywire of the grav rapier. Especially if you face a lot of tac blobs and flareshields. Plus consistency is always good. It's harder to stay efficient in 30k without committing a lot to any given task.

 

Corax is great. In all the games I've used him he's never let me down. He can rip open Land Raiders and shred entire tac blobs. Plus with clever placement he'll never get shot at or even better you're opponent will waste shooting on him.

 

Also consider more chainfists on the Terminators. Those can crack open a spartan easily and have a chance at surviving the contents. Especially if you can get Corax to jump in with them in the movement phase to take advantage of his shroud bombs. Or have him join in after for the charge bonuses if you think the termis can survive a round without him. On the charge he can have upwards of ~10 attacks and rip apart most things.

 

I've always wanted to try a Caliver support squad but I usually end up buying more Mor Deythan or Dark Furies.

[GreyCrow]

Thanks for the comments ! The Thudd Gun seems like a great equalizer for low model count armies like mine indeed ! (I'll just have to find 5 points somewhere since I want to fit Corax on top of a standalone 1500 points list :p ).

 

Regarding the loss of the Laser Rapier, I agree with you and I have no shame switching it for a Thudd Gun. I included it to scare off the long range vehicles, but I guess I can do that with other units. Since I have 5 points to find somewhere else, I want to have your opinion on something :

 

Corax can rip open Land Raiders easily, do you think I can count on him to open up Spartans easily too ? The logic was 7 S10 attacks (with Scourge Fighting Style Active) with Shred hitting on 3+ should kill a Spartan in melee (and perhaps get him to explode if a few pens go through). Is it too suicidal to play Corax this way ? I do agree that a couple extra Chainfists could help, I could probably swap a few LCs for Power Axes to free up points for an extra chainfist here and there.

 

______

 

Overall, based on your experience and assuming I'm going for the modifications you suggest (Swapping 2 LCs from the Terminator Squad for 2 Power Axes, Changing the Last Claw for a Chainfist, and swapping the Laser Destroyer for an extra Thudd Gun), do you think I'm shooting myself in the foot with that list ?

 

I have a feeling that it's hard hitting enough despite the low model count, and that it's flexible enough to have some fun ! But I'm leaving that up to you :D